Angus question

[david1852]

A little background first. I'd been helping my dad on his beef cattle farm on and off for the last 50 years but it was his farm and I was the "working hand". Dad passed away April of last year at the age of 87. He willed the farm/ cattle to me and I decided to try and keep the farm going. As of now I have a total of 80 head of angus cows, calves and bulls, give or take a couple.
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I had a red angus bull calf born to a black angus mama and a black angus daddy. The calf is completely red and has a pink nose.

The red calf's black daddy is the son of a registered black angus bull and a red angus mama. Did the red calf get his color from his red angus "grandmother"?

The red calf is a couple months old now, healthy and strong. I'd sure like to keep him and use him for breeding since it's time to replace my breeding bull anyway plus I'd like to have some red angus to sell. I'm not sure if that's recommended since he would be breeding back to some of his cousins.

I've tried researching inbreeding/line breeding and I'm still not sure. For you guys that know more about this, what are your opinions? Do you see any calf problems down the road?

Thanks for the help

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

The real pros here can answer your questions in the meantime :welcome: to Cattle Today!

 

[david1852]

The real pros here can answer your questions in the meantime :welcome: to Cattle Today!

Thanks for the welcome. I've been lurking for well over a year and decided to join in. Lots of good advice on here.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

BOTH parents are carrying the red gene. Red gene is a recessive gene. It takes both genes to express the color red. The RED CALF has NO black genes in him. He had to inherit red from mom & red from dad.
Any calf that came out of your Red Angus cow carries 1 red gene. Bred to a homozygous black bull (2 black genes), all her and her daughters' offspring will be black in color. But, bred to your heterozygous black bull (1 red - 1 black gene), you have a 25% chance of them being red out of the hetero black daughters and 50% chance of them being red out of the red cow.
Clear as mud???
All it takes is ONE black gene from either parent for the calf to be BLACK in color, because black is dominant over red.

 

[bird dog]

Welcome. It you want a red Angus bull, you really need to buy one from a good local breeder so you know what you have. The one you have maybe a good one or maybe not. With that many cows, I would want something where I could look at the EPD's and use them to improve whats lacking in your herd. A good breeder will help you pick one out.

 

[Son of Butch]

BOTH parents are carrying the red gene. Red gene is a recessive gene.
He had to inherit red from mom & red from dad.

+1
Both parents have to be red factor carriers at the very least.

 

[david1852]

BOTH parents are carrying the red gene. Red gene is a recessive gene.
He had to inherit red from mom & red from dad.

+1
Both parents have to be red factor carriers at the very least.

I've been thinking about it. It's possible that the red calf's black angus mama could the offspring from the red cow too. That could explain things.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

there are Registered Black Angus cattle that still carry the red gene. Not uncommon.

 

[Silver]

there are Registered Black Angus cattle that still carry the red gene. Not uncommon.

Very common in Canada and other countries where the Angus Association is for both black and reds.

 

[Banjo]

BOTH parents are carrying the red gene. Red gene is a recessive gene. It takes both genes to express the color red. The RED CALF has NO black genes in him. He had to inherit red from mom & red from dad.
Any calf that came out of your Red Angus cow carries 1 red gene. Bred to a homozygous black bull (2 black genes), all her and her daughters' offspring will be black in color. But, bred to your heterozygous black bull (1 red - 1 black gene), you have a 25% chance of them being red out of the hetero black daughters and 50% chance of them being red out of the red cow.
Clear as mud???
All it takes is ONE black gene from either parent for the calf to be BLACK in color, because black is dominant over red.

So, if I have calves out of a red hereford bull bred to my mostly angus with a trace of beefmaster cows...if I have a red white faced bull calf from one black cow and a black white faced bull calf from another black cow....and i want to keep one of the bull calves for breeding then I need to keep the black white face bull calf if i want mostly black white face calves?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes - if they are RED in color - they do not - never will have - any BLACK genes... period.
I used to see ads like " this red bull is sired by a black sire & black dam, so you should have black calves by him". NO NO NO
not because of HIS genes. You may have black calves, but because the dam contributed a black gene.
Remember, your black calf out of the red WF bull, is still carrying 1 red gene & 1 black gene - so half his offspring will inherit the red gene.
Once you use a red bull, that red gene will/can stay with you for generations. Which, doesn't bother me. Color is nothing. Quality of offspring is EVERYTHING.