Angus Bulls

[Aero]

What I would consider high inbred is 12.5% which is just 1680 on boths sides of the pedigree going back three generations.

uhhh.... not quite. what you are referring to is 3.25% inbred. 12.5% would be a Precision daughter bred to a Precision son. less than 5% equates to accidental inbreeding. I have a cow that is 3.25% IBC to Precision and I sure as heck wasnt selecting for him. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_det ... d=15335739 (25% chance of being a CCS carrier)

 

[krenwic]

by baxter78 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:42 pm

I have heard the right time lime had some calving problems. I would not use any 9J9 animal that had his pedigree. Seems some of the ccs traced back to him from what I understand.
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I don't know what stockyard jockey told you this, but it couldn't be further from the truth. Right Time is arguably one of the best angus bulls of all time. Never heard of a single calving problem from him or his sire EXT.

 

[Brandonm22]

Am I reading the Angus Arthrogyroposis Multiplex (sp??) rules correctly?? If I read them right, once they make their carrier AI sires official (and the list is still just preliminary) you have 60 days to use that semen and after that you won't be able to register any more calves if they are the service sire????

 

[Arkieman]

What about this one?


http://www.schaffangusvalley.com/herdsires/0035.html

They have some power cows in their herd! Just noticed after browsing the cows that most of them are either directly out of S A F 598 Bando 5175 or out of his daughters...

 

[RafterD]

Final Answer is a really good outcross bull. I have seen many of his sons and daughters and they are thick and soggy and made right. Schaff does have a phenomenal cow herd. I love their Emblynette line. They haven't had great numbers on their $G and I think that has kept them from being used quite as much as they would have otherwise. I believe their is way more to an animal than their EPD's but unfortunately, many of my bull customers have put way too much emphasis on $B which has kept us from using some of the SAV bulls a little more. I currently have a bull calf out of SAV Pathfinder that I really like on one of my best donor cows. I just weaned him last month and most likely will take him to the OBI bull test. He should perform great and sell well just based on his phenotype and performance capacity. Pathfinder is just about the same age as Final Answer and I was going to use one or the other as a unproven sire when I bred this mating. Final Answer has taken off a little better than Pathfinder but I think it is hard to go wrong with most of the SAV bull lines. They have been around for a long time and are one of the top 10 seedstock producers in the country with the vast majority of those bulls winding up in commercial herds. Something to be said for longevity and repeat customers.

 

[Angus In Texas]

Am I reading the Angus Arthrogyroposis Multiplex (sp??) rules correctly?? If I read them right, once they make their carrier AI sires official (and the list is still just preliminary) you have 60 days to use that semen and after that you won't be able to register any more calves if they are the service sire????

What happens with embryos sired by carrier bulls that were frozen prior to CCS?

 

[RafterD]

The rules have not been finalized yet and could have changed since I read the action of the Board of Directors but it was my understanding that you could continue to register those calves from a known carrier AMC but that it must be tested and then would either have the designation of AMC for carrier or AMF for free. The deadline is for calves being able to be registered without being tested if they have a descendant that is AMC. If someone has more up to date information, I hope they will post and correct any thing that I misunderstood.

 

[Brandonm22]

It read to me like there was one set of rules for typical registered Angus and another set of rules for A.I. sires. I will try to take the time to reread that again this evening when things slow down.

 

[TSR]

Have you used B/R Future Direction 4268 yet? I was glad to see he is not a carrier.

No I haven't used him only because we have pretty much been out of all Precision lines except for Retail Product for the past two years. One of my buddies who is heavily in to Precision has used him quite extensively and I certainly like the way those calves are put together at the hip and down through the flank as compared to CA Future Direction calves. In my opinion show just how important the dam side of the equation really is and definately increases my respect for the B/R prefix even more. I suspect in looking over all the FD sons that are free and that are carriers, it may be very well be 4268 that carries the torch for those genetics down the line.

I was glad to see Retail Product on the negative list. One of the traits we are trying to work back towards is getting frame size down while keeping the carcass quality and performance up. I have used RP quite a bit especially for a terminal cross kind of bull for my customers who feed their own steers but keep back hiefers in their herd. I really like how that commercial RP hiefers flesh and rebreed while adding some thickness and soggyness to the finished product.

Last spring, just before all this CCS information came out I flushed a Predestined virgin hiefer to GAR Game ON for the customers described above who needed to moderate frame size. I have quite of few of these embryos confirmed safe for spring calves. I was a little nervous when the list came out hoping that RP and Game On were free. Made my day when were marked AMF.

Have you had any trouble with fertility with Retail Product's registered daughters?

 

[RafterD]

We have actually had very good success with Retail Product daughters and fertility. On the hiefers that we have kept from RP, they were some of the quickest to come back into condition after birth and have been some of our better cows with AI success rates. I don't have a lot of them so I am not sure that I can make a statement that this is always the case, but that has not been my experience. The problem line that I had with fertility was CA Future Direction. I bought two FD daughters from a very reputable breeder as bred hiefers. They had calves and wouldn't breed back and were/still are extremely tough keepers. I think I finally got them bred back for early fall calves next year but the frost has come and they are already losing condition where all the other cows are gaining on our supplement program. There are a lot of show jockeys in our area that really like this line so most likely they will be finding a new home just as soon as they are confirmed preggy and tested to see what their AM status is. I made the decision to move away from 1680 for lots of reasons, but these two cows made me sure that my reasons were right. I am not sure why I dislike FD so much but like RP just as much since they are not bred that differently but to me Retail Product has got some capacity all the way from the girth to the flank and makes his calves even heavier muscled and thick. I can't get past the flank area being too pinched on many FD calves.

 

[TSR]

We have actually had very good success with Retail Product daughters and fertility. On the hiefers that we have kept from RP, they were some of the quickest to come back into condition after birth and have been some of our better cows with AI success rates. I don't have a lot of them so I am not sure that I can make a statement that this is always the case, but that has not been my experience. The problem line that I had with fertility was CA Future Direction. I bought two FD daughters from a very reputable breeder as bred hiefers. They had calves and wouldn't breed back and were/still are extremely tough keepers. I think I finally got them bred back for early fall calves next year but the frost has come and they are already losing condition where all the other cows are gaining on our supplement program. There are a lot of show jockeys in our area that really like this line so most likely they will be finding a new home just as soon as they are confirmed preggy and tested to see what their AM status is. I made the decision to move away from 1680 for lots of reasons, but these two cows made me sure that my reasons were right. I am not sure why I dislike FD so much but like RP just as much since they are not bred that differently but to me Retail Product has got some capacity all the way from the girth to the flank and makes his calves even heavier muscled and thick. I can't get past the flank area being too pinched on many FD calves.

My reason for asking was I have only 3 R Product daughters but the oldest I haven't been able to ai. I am thinking of putting her with the bull and see what happens. As I mentioned, I also have two more coming probably my last R Products. For my area they are a little too small with respect to the bull market, great carcass though-they almost always scan well. I have yet to get what I consider a nice bull calf from R Product when compared to the heifers sired.

 

[RafterD]

I think that some cows just don't settle well with AI. I am not sure why. I have a cow that just would not settle AI but settled in the first cycle everytime with the clean up bull. I used her for a recip this year and she ultrasounded safe the other day so I have no idea. Not a mineral deficiency or condition issue so has to be just the cow.