AI in small cattle

[WAguy]

New here - don't know if anyone messes with small cattle.

I have a heifer over a year old that's part Jersey and Lowline and small hereford. Anyway, I'd like to get her AI'd. She's 40 inches tall now and the local AI guy said he's afraid his arm is too big, but he'd try. No other AI people in area.

Years ago I did some preg checking, so I put my scrawny arm in her - no apparent problem. Don't know if I could help the AI guy, as I assume skill needed. Any ideas? Wondering if anyone uses speculum like they do in goats, etc.

I could wait til she gets bigger, but I wanted her calving earlier than her mom so I could steal some milk from her while her mom is dry. Was going to use a small bull so she'd calve okay.

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[dun]

Unless your tech has a really large armand hands it's no big deal. He may feel like he's commited rape when he's done, but it's not that big of a deal.
AIing a fcow with a speculum is I suppose possible, but that's one of the reasons I prefer cattle over goats. Speculum breeding is a whole different set of skills and isn;t as easy as you would expect. Goats are what I started with when I first got into AI. I could probably still do it today but I'm not sure my eyes are up to it.

dun

 

[susie]

My AI guy is a big guy and he can AI a mini.
Didn't seem like an issue when we were discussing it. Maybe he can use lotsa lube stuff.
Where are you located?

Susie

 

[3MR]

I think it will be fine, just buy her flowers afterwards.

seriously; unless he's got arms like :lol: me there shoudlnt be a problem :lol: NOT!

 

[WAguy]

Thanks, your comments are reassuring. I think we'll give it a try.

I've had bulls around the past few years and I'm tired of them. Alot of hassle for a cow or two. There's a guy nearby with little bulls but he decided it's too much hassle to get one in from the range to breed (unless I wanted to spend alot).

Susie, I'm west of Spokane about 15 miles.

 

[showkid1200]

exactly how old is the heifer?

 

[WAguy]

She was born last July 20.

 

[msscamp]

She was born last July 20.

She's not even a year old yet, she's not old enough to breed in my honest opinion. First calf heifers are generally bred to calve as two year olds and the gestation period is typically 9 months and a few days, so she wouldn't be old enough to breed until she's around 13 months old. I know there are exceptions to this rule, but why take chances? The younger the heifer, the bigger the chance of calving problems and of the mother abandoning her calf because of a difficult birth or just not knowing what she is supposed to do.

 

[3MR]

I agree;

I had thought you said she was over a year old. Give her some time. You will be happy you did later.

 

[dun]

She's sure close enough to a year (only 4 days shy) to start looking at options on breeding her? October will be here sooner then expected if plans aren't layed and arrangements started to be made now.

dun

 

[3MR]

She's sure close enough to a year (only 4 days shy) to start looking at options on breeding her? October will be here sooner then expected if plans aren't layed and arrangements started to be made now.

dun

Im just totally confused anyway. The original post said she was over a year old, and that years ago he put his arm in her. Then in a subsequent post he said she was born 20 July 05.

 

[dun]

She's sure close enough to a year (only 4 days shy) to start looking at options on breeding her? October will be here sooner then expected if plans aren't layed and arrangements started to be made now.

dun

Im just totally confused anyway. The original post said she was over a year old, and that years ago he put his arm in her. Then in a subsequent post he said she was born 20 July 05.

I think it's a timeline sort of thing. Years ago he did preg checking so recently he stuck his arm in her. Most heifers that are checked for repro tract scores are checked at about a year, ours 11-13 months depending on when they were born.

dun

 

[3MR]

well that makes more sense.

 

[dun]

well that makes more sense.

That's my interpretation of it anyway. Could very well be wrong, I've been wrong be before. That's just what makes sense to me.

dun

 

[WAguy]

Sorry for all the confusion. Yes, I wasn't thinking right, she's not over a year old (until Friday). Pretty thorough analysis going on here – let me confuse you some more.

I understand the concept of first calving at 2 years for most heifers. I was wanting to move up calving times. I will wait some for this one, but she'll definitely be ready before 2 years if bred to a small bull. She is the same size as her mom was at the same age, and despite attempts to limit feed, she's getting fat, like her mom did at that age. Seems some calories could go to making a baby.

Her mom was born Oct 8, and I didn't want her calving that time of year. So I bred her early (12 ½ months) to a bull that was advertised as miniature. When the guy took him off his trailer, the Hereford was bigger and thicker than expected, and I was concerned, but after the hassle, used him anyway. I was prepared to help with calving, but 2 hours after daughter fed her, a surprise calf was running around the field on Jul 20. She bred back on first heat to a Jersey bull I had, so her last calf was on June 5 (again, really easy calving).

[Interesting that gestation was exactly 270 days with both calves, out of 2 different breeds (Hereford and Jersey) – short gestation a small cow thing?]

By 21 months age, my heifer should be as tall as the bull I will breed her to. I think the 2 year rule is based on bigger bulls. Most people don't think small. I am not a serious producer so I am not trying to maximize beef output.

Seems if you use a small enough bull, problems are less likely calving at 21 months than at 24. I recall as a teenager going across the road to a rancher friend's corral (he wasn't around) and seeing several 2 year old heifers stretched out with stuck calves. I pulled a bunch of them.

As for mothering when young, I don't know. Seemed okay with this heifer's mom at 21 months. In fact, she took mothering very seriously, no threat of abandonment. If there was a problem, with only 2 cows, I could probably help out.

 

[dun]

It has nothing to do with the bull. It's the maturity of the heifer that is the question. A lot of dairy heifers are bred to calve at 21 months, some even younger. My concern would be the stress on a beef heifer of that age affecting her long term productiveness. A holstein will be culled before she is old enough to see if the early calving has any long term affect. To address the getting fat issue, some peopel will think you are feeding her too heavy and that's a possibility. But some heifers just like some people can put on fat on a starvation diet. If she's one of those that's doing it on pasture and not being supplemented, I'ld breed her and be glad I had an easy keeper.

dun

 

[msscamp]

She's sure close enough to a year (only 4 days shy) to start looking at options on breeding her? October will be here sooner then expected if plans aren't layed and arrangements started to be made now.

dun

Very true.

 

[msscamp]

I think the 2 year rule is based on bigger bulls. Most people don't think small. I am not a serious producer so I am not trying to maximize beef output.

That would be an incorrect thought. The 2 year rule has to do with the fact that the animal is still developing and calving prior to 2 years old (give or take a month or so either way) generally results in a stunted heifer and a smaller calf due to mom's inability to take care of her nutritional needs + her calfs.

 

[showkid1200]

i would wait until she's about 15 or 16 months your asking for problems if she's not even a year old

 

[3MR]

The 2 year rule has to do with the fact that the animal is still developing and calving prior to 2 years old (give or take a month or so either way) generally results in a stunted heifer and a smaller calf due to mom's inability to take care of her nutritional needs + her calfs.

Exactly