Aggression vs. Play

[dun]

Why are yall having to doctor yalls cattle so much?

Why we can't take care of our animals?

I've never doctored one cow for hoof rot, pink eye, cough or any of that other stuff :lol: ... and have never lost one to it. Pulled a few calves and penned a few for soar legs.... but never needed to doctor one.

That is funny to keep calm cattle so they can be doctored. Really, sounds like they need to be hamburger if they have to be doctored that much.

How do you know your cow has arthritis? Why would you keep her offspring?

We rarely treat for anything. The last footrot was 4-5 years ago. Having calm animals has more benefits then that. Being able to tag and weigh calves at birth, walking around through the cows just becuase I enjoy walking around among them, sitting on a rock in the field and watching the calves play, observing for heats for AI, not having to repair stuff becuase a blockhead went through and tried to destroy something. This week I had to fix a leaky waterer. Nice to be able to work on it with the cows just standing around watching and not having to keep a third eye out for one of them being stupid. Being able to work them by myself if needed FOR ANY REASON, moving them from pasture to pasture for MIG. Being old and not as agile or quick, not having to worry everytime I'm around them.
I'll admit it, I like cows, I enjoy having them and all of the various aspects of being a competent herdsman. Having calm cows just makes it so much easier and enjoyable.

 

[texast]

Dun nailed it!!
There's nothing more I'd love to do then sit out in the pasture and just watch the calves play, and just walk through the herd as Dun mentioned. I Love cattle. Having quiet or even gently cattle allows me to do that. Yes I do pet ( scratch) them. I don't like entering a pasture, and the cows start running to the opposite side of the pasture.
When I first started reading this form I thought oh my goodness these folks are having too many issues with their cattle. But then I realized, this is a form to talk about what's going on with our cattle at our particular place. Because it's spoken about doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.

 

[dun]

Because it's spoken about doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.

BINGO!

 

[wacocowboy]

I prefer the middle ground cattle. Good, solid even tempered cattle that take care of their calfs, stay pretty calm when you work them. I have had some that were too gentle. Couldnt hardly move them around the pen because their natural prey mentality was gone. Same ones would be all over you with a grain bucket in your hand. I prefer them to come when called, but also respect space and respond to me working them with simple body positioning. About 90 % of my cows are this way. Still have a couple that are more 'tame' then I prefer.

Yep that's why I don't like them over gentle. I was helping a guy and he said no hotshots had several of them I could yell at, push on prod with a stick and they just stood there chewing. My cows if I am on one side of the pen they are on the other, just open the alley gate and go to the other side and in they go trying to get further away from me.

 

[Muddy]

Lol!!!!! I'm glad we went with quiet cows than high headed cows. When we had high headed cows, they won't come in a corral, won't come in alley, will leading other cows away from us and they will waste your time. After we culled the last high headed cows, our working hours with the cattle from 8 hours to just 3 hours, what a huge difference. But hey whatever floats your boat.

 

[TCRanch]

Dun nailed it!!
There's nothing more I'd love to do then sit out in the pasture and just watch the calves play, and just walk through the herd as Dun mentioned. I Love cattle. Having quiet or even gently cattle allows me to do that. Yes I do pet ( scratch) them. I don't like entering a pasture, and the cows start running to the opposite side of the pasture.
When I first started reading this form I thought oh my goodness these folks are having too many issues with their cattle. But then I realized, this is a form to talk about what's going on with our cattle at our particular place. Because it's spoken about doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.

:nod:

 

[angus9259]

Dun nailed it!!
There's nothing more I'd love to do then sit out in the pasture and just watch the calves play, and just walk through the herd as Dun mentioned. I Love cattle. Having quiet or even gently cattle allows me to do that. Yes I do pet ( scratch) them. I don't like entering a pasture, and the cows start running to the opposite side of the pasture.
When I first started reading this form I thought oh my goodness these folks are having too many issues with their cattle. But then I realized, this is a form to talk about what's going on with our cattle at our particular place. Because it's spoken about doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.

:nod:

Me personally, I would never do what's happening in the TCRanch picture. I don't care how quiet they are. Back against a wooden wall holding a calf. One thing to be sitting on a rock drinking beer in the field with them. Quite another to be penned up, back against a wall holding a newborn. The last words of the person dying in the hospital after being crushed by their docile animal was "I don't understand, she's never done that before"....

 

[Muddy]

Dun nailed it!!
There's nothing more I'd love to do then sit out in the pasture and just watch the calves play, and just walk through the herd as Dun mentioned. I Love cattle. Having quiet or even gently cattle allows me to do that. Yes I do pet ( scratch) them. I don't like entering a pasture, and the cows start running to the opposite side of the pasture.
When I first started reading this form I thought oh my goodness these folks are having too many issues with their cattle. But then I realized, this is a form to talk about what's going on with our cattle at our particular place. Because it's spoken about doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.

:nod:

Me personally, I would never do what's happening in the TCRanch picture. I don't care how quiet they are. Back against a wooden wall holding a calf. One thing to be sitting on a rock drinking beer in the field with them. Quite another to be penned up, back against a wall holding a newborn. The last words of the person dying in the hospital after being crushed by their docile animal was "I don't understand, she's never done that before"....

Funny is that there are more ranchers got injured by aggressive momma cows during calving season, according to hospital reports.

 

[TCRanch]

Dun nailed it!!
There's nothing more I'd love to do then sit out in the pasture and just watch the calves play, and just walk through the herd as Dun mentioned. I Love cattle. Having quiet or even gently cattle allows me to do that. Yes I do pet ( scratch) them. I don't like entering a pasture, and the cows start running to the opposite side of the pasture.
When I first started reading this form I thought oh my goodness these folks are having too many issues with their cattle. But then I realized, this is a form to talk about what's going on with our cattle at our particular place. Because it's spoken about doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.

:nod:

Me personally, I would never do what's happening in the TCRanch picture. I don't care how quiet they are. Back against a wooden wall holding a calf. One thing to be sitting on a rock drinking beer in the field with them. Quite another to be penned up, back against a wall holding a newborn. The last words of the person dying in the hospital after being crushed by their docile animal was "I don't understand, she's never done that before"....

I'll be darned, I didn't realize you could tell so much from the freakishly tiny pic. But I'm not completely stuck on stupid & pick my battles (cows) accordingly. Tator Tot was a preemie that couldn't even stand on her own; her mama knew that, trusted me & actually seemed grateful while I was "teaching" her to stand & nurse. That said, valid point duly noted & for the most part agree.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Only the person in that situation would be privy to enough information to make the proper call.

I trust your judgment.

 

[wacocowboy]

Lol!!!!! I'm glad we went with quiet cows than high headed cows. When we had high headed cows, they won't come in a corral, won't come in alley, will leading other cows away from us and they will waste your time. After we culled the last high headed cows, our working hours with the cattle from 8 hours to just 3 hours, what a huge difference. But hey whatever floats your boat.

If you got a good set up they ain't got no choice.

Funny is that there are more ranchers got injured by aggressive momma cows during calving season, according to hospital reports.[/quote]

I doubt the hospital records show a difference between people who got injured by an angry momma cow and people who got injured by their pet cow. I have seen a lot more injuries and deaths from pets than cows who respect space.

 

[Brute 23]

I've never understood the reason to tag a calf when its born. In all honesty if you get ran over doing that you kind of got what you deserved. The registered people do it for records and all that but I assume they are doing it in facilities so they can weigh the calves also. Just to go get between a cow and a calf for no reason doesn't make a lot of sense. :???: That's like rule #1 or #2 with cattle.

 

[dun]

I've never understood the reason to tag a calf when its born. In all honesty if you get ran over doing that you kind of got what you deserved. The registered people do it for records and all that but I assume they are doing it in facilities so they can weigh the calves also. Just to go get between a cow and a calf for no reason doesn't make a lot of sense. :???: That's like rule #1 or #2 with cattle.

Pretty simple really. You can;t manage what you don;t measure and you can;t measure something unless it's identified. When 99% of the calves are solid red they tend to look a lot a like

 

[Muddy]

Tagging calves when they're few hours old is a necessary for us for identification purposes, especially when you're gonna split up the herd to go to two different pastures. 99% of our calves are black and they're same age.

 

[Muddy]

Lol!!!!! I'm glad we went with quiet cows than high headed cows. When we had high headed cows, they won't come in a corral, won't come in alley, will leading other cows away from us and they will waste your time. After we culled the last high headed cows, our working hours with the cattle from 8 hours to just 3 hours, what a huge difference. But hey whatever floats your boat.

If you got a good set up they ain't got no choice.

Funny is that there are more ranchers got injured by aggressive momma cows during calving season, according to hospital reports.

I doubt the hospital records show a difference between people who got injured by an angry momma cow and people who got injured by their pet cow. I have seen a lot more injuries and deaths from pets than cows who respect space.[/quote]
Even with a good setup, the high headed cows can still wasting your time and we have a very good setup. The hospital reports did put the statements from the ranchers about why they got injured from the momma cows. But then again you don't live in the North where its a necessary to save a calf's life from the freezing. I have seen more ranchers got injured from mad momma cows than pet cows. We can just agree to disagree.

 

[Nesikep]

Brute, have you tried catching a week old calf? it isn't very easy..
If you want cows like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ_tJxy9hVA You can have them all.

I just got slammed into a fence by a bull 2 weeks ago trying to load them and I was being as careful as a guy can be, no significant injuries, and that was just luck.. the whole herd of these critters would come after you from where ever they were.


Brute 23.. How did I know she had arthritis? well, it's just a crazy guess since she had a persistent limp in her right hip and she was 18 years old.. Why would I keep her daughters? well.. She was a darned good cow... Do you wait until a cow is 20 before you keep offspring so she's proven herself? the 3 daughters I have of her are all exceptional, a grand-daughter that's a small-ish cow in my herd had the biggest steer calf of all of them.. that 'family' of cows is the only family that every calf that was born was born alive and lived to weaning. Do I need to go on?


How much do I doctor them? well.. not much.. Last year I had one that cut her foot between the toes.. Haltered her, gave her a bucket of grain, and was able to clean and dress it in the field... I vaccinate while they're eating. My home-raised bull is halter broke, last year I brought him from the field to the pen where my heifers to be bred was with no fuss. I have no help to do what I need to do here, so being able to do it alone, at all, is essential.

All that said, the WORST things are half-tame cows.. the ones that'll run you over when you have treats or something, but nevertheless are unworkable.. they still spook and bust or jump fences, etc

 

[Brute 23]

What are you measuring Dun? You getting size and weights for commercial calves?

I understand the reason for tagging for identification, to match cows and calves, or what ever but that can be done at a later time. Cows calm down a lot when their calf is #2-300 vs new born.

The majority of people trying to tag newborns when they have 15 cows have no clue. They just think its what they are suppose to do. Like wearing a cowboy had and boots when they work cows.

 

[dun]

We weigh all calves, commercial and registered. Birth, first workup, weaning, booster time, before they head to the salebarn, as yearlings if they are being retained. I know what calf belongs to what cow and the information on that cow as it relates to her calf. I guess we're foolish becuase we also tag all of the cows so that we know which cow is which.

 

[Brute 23]

Brute, have you tried catching a week old calf? it isn't very easy..
If you want cows like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ_tJxy9hVA You can have them all.

I just got slammed into a fence by a bull 2 weeks ago trying to load them and I was being as careful as a guy can be, no significant injuries, and that was just luck.. the whole herd of these critters would come after you from where ever they were.


Brute 23.. How did I know she had arthritis? well, it's just a crazy guess since she had a persistent limp in her right hip and she was 18 years old.. Why would I keep her daughters? well.. She was a darned good cow... Do you wait until a cow is 20 before you keep offspring so she's proven herself? the 3 daughters I have of her are all exceptional, a grand-daughter that's a small-ish cow in my herd had the biggest steer calf of all of them.. that 'family' of cows is the only family that every calf that was born was born alive and lived to weaning. Do I need to go on?


How much do I doctor them? well.. not much.. Last year I had one that cut her foot between the toes.. Haltered her, gave her a bucket of grain, and was able to clean and dress it in the field... I vaccinate while they're eating. My home-raised bull is halter broke, last year I brought him from the field to the pen where my heifers to be bred was with no fuss. I have no help to do what I need to do here, so being able to do it alone, at all, is essential.

All that said, the WORST things are half-tame cows.. the ones that'll run you over when you have treats or something, but nevertheless are unworkable.. they still spook and bust or jump fences, etc

That video is a joke. Its about as bad as watching Alaska Outdoors. That is the kind of stuff I'm talking about exactly. Those people have no business out there because they don't know what they are doing and will get hurt one day.

That cow isn't bad.... she is doing what she is supposed to. They keep jacking with her and they will ruin her too.

 

[Brute 23]

We weigh all calves, commercial and registered. Birth, first workup, weaning, booster time, before they head to the salebarn, as yearlings if they are being retained. I know what calf belongs to what cow and the information on that cow as it relates to her calf. I guess we're foolish becuase we also tag all of the cows so that we know which cow is which.

That makes sense. If you are documenting all that then ok. Im all about keeping records.

If you just tagging for identification as a new born, your likely wasting time and taking un-necessary risk.

I go by the cows as they calve and write down the cows number, sex of calf, maybe a description, and the month/ year. A lot of times they don't come out of the brush until they are one or two weeks old.

Ex: #86, BC, blk mtf, 1/16 (so its # 86 cow, bull calf, black motley face calf, born January of 2016)

That's all I need for now. Later on when we work cattle or their is a big enough group we pen them, cut the calves off and leave them separated over night. The next morning you turn them back together. You can ride or walk around them and just write the calves' numbers behind the cow. Easy deal. Cows calm down a lot once a calf is #200+ vs a new born.

I can enter the info in to my spreadsheet to keep up with cows calving cycles. Put in the weight of the calf at sale, how much it sold for, and its age. That's it.

Unless you are tracking new born weights and sizes... there is not a lot of need to tag them as newborns IMO.