Hereford vs Brahman bulls

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Bfields30

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I been lookin at Horned Hereford and Brahman bulls I been looking at W4 Herefords and Shockley Herefords in Oklahoma how much ear will I lose on my calfs with Hereford bull and does anyone know good Brahmans outside of jd Hudgins my bull budget is 3-5k but I want a lbw bulls that will grow grow calves. Brahman makes me nervous with the size of calfs.
Have brangus now which I love brangus but kinda want to go with diff direction.
 
Bfields30 said:
I been lookin at Horned Hereford and Brahman bulls I been looking at W4 Herefords and Shockley Herefords in Oklahoma how much ear will I lose on my calfs with Hereford bull and does anyone know good Brahmans outside of jd Hudgins my bull budget is 3-5k but I want a lbw bulls that will grow grow calves. Brahman makes me nervous with the size of calfs.
Have brangus now which I love brangus but kinda want to go with diff direction.

What kind of cows?
There is an anomaly of behemoth bull calves that shows up when using Brahman over English cattle. This has been well documented by Dr David Riley TAMU. Your extension agent should be able to get his over view from his workshop covering this.
There is a good slide show from the TAMU Beef Short course.

BRAHMANS USED IN CROSSBREEDING
Large Effects on Birth Weight Follow Inheritance Pattern Consistent with Gametic Imprinting and X Chromosome. R.M. Thallman*, J.A. Dillon†, J.O. Sanders‡, A.D. Herring‡, S.D. Kachman§, and D.G. Riley‡ – View PDF Abstract
Brahman (BR) cattle contribute substantially to beef production in the Southern and Southeastern regions of the United States, primarily through crossbreeding and Brahman-influenced composite breeds. Birth weights (BW) of calves produced from Brahman sires and Bos taurus dams are considerably heavier with greater differences between sexes than calves of the reciprocal cross (Cartwright et al. (1964); Roberson et al. (1986)). These results suggest that X chromosome inheritance and gametic imprinting should be considered in genetic evaluation of Brahman-influenced cattle and that genomic selection on breed-of-origin, especially for the X chromosome, could be highly effective in Brahman-influenced composites or breeds. At least from the perspective of birth weight, crossbreeding programs should emphasize Brahman contribution to the maternal part of a breeding system and B. taurus to the paternal part. Finally, it seems plausible that introgression of the Brahman X chromosome (or portions of it) and potentially limited autosomal regions responsible for major fractions of the gametic imprinting × sex effect into B. taurus breeds could provide a mechanism for reducing dystocia relative to growth rate through reducing sexual dimorphism for BW
 
You have more than enough ear. Angus or Hereford is the way to go. W4 sale is Friday so you better hurry.

I would stay away from a Brahman bull. I breed a Brahman bull to commercial cows and straight Brahmans. It's a real crapshoot in my experience. I did not get near the uniformity as with the Hereford and Angus bulls. In my opinion you really need to know what your breeding to if you go that route.

If you go that route be sure to let the breeder know your intentions and shoot for a moderate bw bull. I did not see any monster calves. They were all leg and filled out in the later weeks. We dont have any straight English cattle though. They all have at least 1/4 ear.
 
I will also add the F1 bulls sell pretty good, especially the black F1s. Then the straight grey brahman bulls actually don't do that bad. The bull calves from the brahman bull on the commercial cows sold the lowest of them all. That was really interesting to me that the pure brahmans would sell higher than the crosses that were 5/8+ brahman.
 
Caustic Burno said:
Bfields30 said:
I been lookin at Horned Hereford and Brahman bulls I been looking at W4 Herefords and Shockley Herefords in Oklahoma how much ear will I lose on my calfs with Hereford bull and does anyone know good Brahmans outside of jd Hudgins my bull budget is 3-5k but I want a lbw bulls that will grow grow calves. Brahman makes me nervous with the size of calfs.
Have brangus now which I love brangus but kinda want to go with diff direction.

What kind of cows?
There is an anomaly of behemoth bull calves that shows up when using Brahman over English cattle. This has been well documented by Dr David Riley TAMU. Your extension agent should be able to get his over view from his workshop covering this.
There is a good slide show from the TAMU Beef Short course.

BRAHMANS USED IN CROSSBREEDING
Large Effects on Birth Weight Follow Inheritance Pattern Consistent with Gametic Imprinting and X Chromosome. R.M. Thallman*, J.A. Dillon†, J.O. Sanders‡, A.D. Herring‡, S.D. Kachman§, and D.G. Riley‡ – View PDF Abstract
Brahman (BR) cattle contribute substantially to beef production in the Southern and Southeastern regions of the United States, primarily through crossbreeding and Brahman-influenced composite breeds. Birth weights (BW) of calves produced from Brahman sires and Bos taurus dams are considerably heavier with greater differences between sexes than calves of the reciprocal cross (Cartwright et al. (1964); Roberson et al. (1986)). These results suggest that X chromosome inheritance and gametic imprinting should be considered in genetic evaluation of Brahman-influenced cattle and that genomic selection on breed-of-origin, especially for the X chromosome, could be highly effective in Brahman-influenced composites or breeds. At least from the perspective of birth weight, crossbreeding programs should emphasize Brahman contribution to the maternal part of a breeding system and B. taurus to the paternal part. Finally, it seems plausible that introgression of the Brahman X chromosome (or portions of it) and potentially limited autosomal regions responsible for major fractions of the gametic imprinting × sex effect into B. taurus breeds could provide a mechanism for reducing dystocia relative to growth rate through reducing sexual dimorphism for BW
Sorry cb i have baldies and mainly brangus and Brahman crosses and Brahman.
 
Brute 23 said:
I will also add the F1 bulls sell pretty good, especially the black F1s. Then the straight grey brahman bulls actually don't do that bad. The bull calves from the brahman bull on the commercial cows sold the lowest of them all. That was really interesting to me that the pure brahmans would sell higher than the crosses that were 5/8+ brahman.
That's the part that scares me going Brahman bull will the bull calfs/ steers sell good
 
Bfields30 said:
Caustic Burno said:
Bfields30 said:
I been lookin at Horned Hereford and Brahman bulls I been looking at W4 Herefords and Shockley Herefords in Oklahoma how much ear will I lose on my calfs with Hereford bull and does anyone know good Brahmans outside of jd Hudgins my bull budget is 3-5k but I want a lbw bulls that will grow grow calves. Brahman makes me nervous with the size of calfs.
Have brangus now which I love brangus but kinda want to go with diff direction.

What kind of cows?
There is an anomaly of behemoth bull calves that shows up when using Brahman over English cattle. This has been well documented by Dr David Riley TAMU. Your extension agent should be able to get his over view from his workshop covering this.
There is a good slide show from the TAMU Beef Short course.

BRAHMANS USED IN CROSSBREEDING
Large Effects on Birth Weight Follow Inheritance Pattern Consistent with Gametic Imprinting and X Chromosome. R.M. Thallman*, J.A. Dillon†, J.O. Sanders‡, A.D. Herring‡, S.D. Kachman§, and D.G. Riley‡ – View PDF Abstract
Brahman (BR) cattle contribute substantially to beef production in the Southern and Southeastern regions of the United States, primarily through crossbreeding and Brahman-influenced composite breeds. Birth weights (BW) of calves produced from Brahman sires and Bos taurus dams are considerably heavier with greater differences between sexes than calves of the reciprocal cross (Cartwright et al. (1964); Roberson et al. (1986)). These results suggest that X chromosome inheritance and gametic imprinting should be considered in genetic evaluation of Brahman-influenced cattle and that genomic selection on breed-of-origin, especially for the X chromosome, could be highly effective in Brahman-influenced composites or breeds. At least from the perspective of birth weight, crossbreeding programs should emphasize Brahman contribution to the maternal part of a breeding system and B. taurus to the paternal part. Finally, it seems plausible that introgression of the Brahman X chromosome (or portions of it) and potentially limited autosomal regions responsible for major fractions of the gametic imprinting × sex effect into B. taurus breeds could provide a mechanism for reducing dystocia relative to growth rate through reducing sexual dimorphism for BW
Sorry cb i have baldies and mainly brangus and Brahman crosses and Brahman.

More baldies than Brangus and Brahman Crosses? If so a darn good Angus....In my opinion a Hereford would be to much just as Brahman would be to much. Another option might be Charolais. Like throwing gas on a flame. Them boogers grow, and in my opinion, better than the Angus cross. Payday across the board will be about the same too.
 
1982vett said:
Bfields30 said:
Caustic Burno said:
What kind of cows?
There is an anomaly of behemoth bull calves that shows up when using Brahman over English cattle. This has been well documented by Dr David Riley TAMU. Your extension agent should be able to get his over view from his workshop covering this.
There is a good slide show from the TAMU Beef Short course.

BRAHMANS USED IN CROSSBREEDING
Large Effects on Birth Weight Follow Inheritance Pattern Consistent with Gametic Imprinting and X Chromosome. R.M. Thallman*, J.A. Dillon†, J.O. Sanders‡, A.D. Herring‡, S.D. Kachman§, and D.G. Riley‡ – View PDF Abstract
Brahman (BR) cattle contribute substantially to beef production in the Southern and Southeastern regions of the United States, primarily through crossbreeding and Brahman-influenced composite breeds. Birth weights (BW) of calves produced from Brahman sires and Bos taurus dams are considerably heavier with greater differences between sexes than calves of the reciprocal cross (Cartwright et al. (1964); Roberson et al. (1986)). These results suggest that X chromosome inheritance and gametic imprinting should be considered in genetic evaluation of Brahman-influenced cattle and that genomic selection on breed-of-origin, especially for the X chromosome, could be highly effective in Brahman-influenced composites or breeds. At least from the perspective of birth weight, crossbreeding programs should emphasize Brahman contribution to the maternal part of a breeding system and B. taurus to the paternal part. Finally, it seems plausible that introgression of the Brahman X chromosome (or portions of it) and potentially limited autosomal regions responsible for major fractions of the gametic imprinting × sex effect into B. taurus breeds could provide a mechanism for reducing dystocia relative to growth rate through reducing sexual dimorphism for BW
Sorry cb i have baldies and mainly brangus and Brahman crosses and Brahman.

More baldies than Brangus and Brahman Crosses? If so a darn good Angus....In my opinion a Hereford would be to much just as Brahman would be to much. Another option might be Charolais. Like throwing gas on a flame. Them boogers grow, and in my opinion, better than the Angus cross. Payday across the board will be about the same too.

Explain how the Hereford would be to much if you don't mind. I do have more brangus and Brahman type cattle with ear.
 
Im not sure what Vett will say but with baldies you can pull some real funky genetics out of the woodpile going back to a Hereford bull. IMO they helped the Hereford by breeding out to the Angus to get the baldie. Its kind of a two step forwards, one step back deal, in my mind, going back to a Hereford again. If the calves show a lot of Hereford you can take a real beating on those calves too.
 
Brute 23 said:
Im not sure what Vett will say but with baldies you can pull some real funky genetics out of the woodpile going back to a Hereford bull. IMO they helped the Hereford by breeding out to the Angus to get the baldie. Its kind of a two step forwards, one step back deal, in my mind, going back to a Hereford again. If the calves show a lot of Hereford you can take a real beating on those calves too.
I have a buddy that swears by angus and I'm not fond of angus bulls i feel like they there calves grow slow Brahman brangus char grow the best that's what I seen. My goal is to keep/sell replacements my short time of having cattle I've sold 6-8 month old heifers out my pasture for 900-1100 dollars and that's from buying sale barn brangus cows raise good calfs: I want to buy raise something good that I know someone will want to buy from me.
 
Brute 23 said:
Im not sure what Vett will say but with baldies you can pull some real funky genetics out of the woodpile going back to a Hereford bull. IMO they helped the Hereford by breeding out to the Angus to get the baldie. Its kind of a two step forwards, one step back deal, in my mind, going back to a Hereford again. If the calves show a lot of Hereford you can take a real beating on those calves too.
What about Hereford on eared cattle ?
 
Does the angus calf in my pic look like it has growth problems? :D There are some soggy heifer mates in that herd also that will be staying with me.

When you have such a diverse herd it's hard to find a one size fits all. Baldies are not really replacement makers. They are for raising terminal calves. Pure brahmans are not for terminal calves. They are for replacements. You have both, which is probably good. :) Nothing wrong with a little diversification.

Buy any breed of the Texas slam and you will be fine, even Charlotte. Quality is more important than breed.

IMO, black sells. No matter if its black with ear for replacements for black calves to the sale barn... they sell. :tiphat:
 
Brute 23 said:
Im not sure what Vett will say but with baldies you can pull some real funky genetics out of the woodpile going back to a Hereford bull. IMO they helped the Hereford by breeding out to the Angus to get the baldie. Its kind of a two step forwards, one step back deal, in my mind, going back to a Hereford again. If the calves show a lot of Hereford you can take a real beating on those calves too.

We have been using Hereford bulls for several years and thus breeding some BWF back to them. Those 3/4 Hereford calves are pretty good but you are right they will get docked at the market. We used Herefords to get some replacements and are now going back to mainly Angus bulls because of the dock.
 
Brute 23 said:
Does the angus calf in my pic look like it has growth problems? :D There are some soggy heifer mates in that herd also that will be staying with me.

When you have such a diverse herd it's hard to find a one size fits all. Baldies are not really replacement makers. They are for raising terminal calves. Pure brahmans are not for terminal calves. They are for replacements. You have both, which is probably good. :) Nothing wrong with a little diversification.

Buy any breed of the Texas slam and you will be fine, even Charlotte. Quality is more important than breed.

IMO, black sells. No matter if its black with ear for replacements for black calves to the sale barn... they sell. :tiphat:

I also agree about the baldy females. I prefer straight bred Hereford or Angus for cows. The BWF cows are fine looking animals that can raise some big calves. We have had some real nice growth 3/4 Angus or Hereford calves from them. We have sold a lot of F1 BWF heifers fir replacements but to me they are some bigger and heavier milking and require a little more to keep them in optimum condition. On the flip side of that if anybody had plenty of good grazing and good calf management and bred a BWF to Charolais bulls they could really raise some big calves.
 

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