Absolute Beginner HELP

[tim1970]

Here is my situation. I just bought my house and approx 6 acres of fenced pasture in North east Texas. I would like to obtain 2 or 3 head of cattle for consumption purposes for my family, and a couple of other neighbor families. I am not looking to make money off of this, just supply beef for all of us. Since I am new to all of this, I have many questions. Hopefully I can get some great advice from here....


1. Am I crazy for even attempting this? Do I have enough Land?

2. What type of cattle do I need to look at?

3. I have been reading auction reports from my region and it might as well be in another language. What are the different types of cattle? Slaughter cows? Stocker Cows? Feeder Cows?

4. What size do I want to consider buying? When I see prices for calves, do they mean just born (not Weened) or several months old?

5. Here is a sample market price summary. Could someone help me decipher?

Slaughter cows, young heifer type cows, $60-80, utility and commercial cows $40-55, canners and cutters $25-39, good and choice bulls $60-68, medium-good bulls $55-59.
Stocker and feeder yearlings, steers, good-choice 6-7 $100-108, medium-good 6-7 $90-99, heifers, good-choice 6-7 $90-100; medium-good 6-7 $82-89.
Good-choice cows NT. Good-choice pairs NT. Common-medium cows NT. Common-medium pairs NT.
Baby calves $100-200.
Stocker and feeder calves, steers, 200-300 lbs., good-choice $140-170, medium-good $125-139, 300-400 lbs., good-choice $125-145, medium-good $111-124, 400-500 lbs., good-choice $110-127, medium-good $100-109, 500-600 lbs., good-choice $105-118, medium-good $90-104. Heifers, 200-300 lbs., good-choice $140-165, medium-good $130-139; 300-400 lbs., good-choice $120-140; medium-good $110-119; 400-500 lbs., good-choice $110-119, medium-good $102-109; 500-600 lbs., good-choice $105-112, medium-good $100-104.
Holstein steer calves, 200-400 lbs., 400-600 lbs., NT.

What are the prices. Is this per lb, or some other weight? Are some of the prices per head?

6. Also I have heard that you want to stay away from cattle sales unless you are experienced. Is this true?


Sorry about the long post, but I greatly appreciate any answers I may get.

Tim

 

[Andrew]

Hello Tim,
In N Texas 6 acres will probably feed 1 cow/pair, maybe two (if you subdivide and feed in winter).

If you just want it for beef, I'd buy a steer around 500lbs and finish him to 1000+- lbs. on pasture and supplemental.

You could possibly go with a bred cow also but that has its own risks/work which would probably be too much if all you want is some home-raised steaks.

You could buy from a sale barn or just call any commercial cattle rancher. Maybe they'll still have some. I personally would rather buy in the spring. At least in my case, thefall calves seem to do better than the spring calves.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[TXBobcat]

Since you are just wanting to supply beef for yourself and your family, you could pick up some 400-600 lb calves from the sale barn; however, if the salebarn intimidates you, I would probably recommend buying something from an individual near you. For example, find an operation near you and ask them if they would have any freezer beef prospects available. This would probably be an animal that either has some defects and won't make the cut in a herd, or it may even be a animal with a bad leg, or blind, etc.

For example, I just obtained a Charolais bull, about 400-450 lbs from a friend of mine who runs a commercial herd. The bull has a bad back leg and kind of walks with a limp, but he is otherwise healthy. I made a deal with the rancher to feed out the animal and then I would give him some of the processed meat. I brought the animal home about 2 weeks ago, and had planned to band him (make him a steer); however, he was too big for my tri-bander, so I ended up cutting him. I also vaccinated and wormed him at that time. I turned him out in the small pasture around the house (about 6 acres), and I plan to leave him there until he gets up to around 800 lbs. He gets grass, water, and a salt block, and about 2-3 lbs sweet feed in evening. When he reaches around 800 lbs, I will put him in a drylot (cattle pen) and start him out on about 8-10 lbs of sweet feed mix a day (2 feedings - 4-5lbs morning and night), with a small amount of hay, and always fresh water. I will slowly increase the feed over the next several weeks until he is getting 20-25 lbs feed a day, plus a small amount of hay to keep the rumen going. He will stay in the pen for around 120 days, and the I will take him to be slaughtered; hopefully around 1,000-1,100 lbs.

As far as having enough land, I would say yes, 6 acres is enough for 2-3 head. As far as selecting a breed, you might try one Angus influenced animal (black hided), a Charolais or other breed of choice, and maybe even a Longhorn (if you want some good lean meat). In other words, get 3 different type/breed animals, and after you have them butchered, then you can be the judge of what you want to stick with in the future.

Most of the sale barn prices you listed above are per hundred weight (cwt).

In other words:
steers, 200-300 lbs., good-choice $140-170
would mean that these good to choice steers, weighing between 200-300 lbs, will bring $1.40-$1.70 per pound, or $140-$170 per 100 lbs. So a $200 lb steer at $1.40 would cost you $280.

 

[Susie David]

The culls would be a good choice for your wallet if all you want to do is have some freezer beef....I take it this would also be a family pet....my suggestion would to look around and see if you can find a couple of Hereford steers 600 lb range. Should be dostile enough not to cause any real damage and give you some nice tasting beef...if you keep the feed good and keep them out of the wild onions....good luck!

 

[msscamp]

Here is my situation. I just bought my house and approx 6 acres of fenced pasture in North east Texas. I would like to obtain 2 or 3 head of cattle for consumption purposes for my family, and a couple of other neighbor families. I am not looking to make money off of this, just supply beef for all of us. Since I am new to all of this, I have many questions. Hopefully I can get some great advice from here....


1. Am I crazy for even attempting this? Do I have enough Land?

Considering you are raising them for beef and , generally speaking, that means supplementing them with grain you are probably fine. As far as the 'crazy', you probably are - but, nothing ventured nothing gained, and it's going to be one helluva learning experience for you as well as being very rewarding and fulfilling. At least until you have to take that animal to the slaughter house.

2. What type of cattle do I need to look at?

As far as sex, either steers or heifers (any animal under the age of, say, 2 years old) can be butchered and eaten. I personally would stay away from older animals as they tend to be tougher meat. As far as breed, this is only my personal experience, and I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack for it, but we raise Murray Greys. We have given packages of our beef to Angus producers, etc, and about 7 times out of 10, our beef wins with regard to taste and tenderness. And that is straight out of those producers mouths.

3. I have been reading auction reports from my region and it might as well be in another language. What are the different types of cattle? Slaughter cows? Stocker Cows? Feeder Cows?

I'm not guaranteeing I have this right, but here goes. Slaughter cows - Just what that name implies; cows bound for the slaughter house to become dinner for you and your family - depending on the age, usually hamburger. Feeder Cows - Young cows bound for a feed lot to be finished in order to become dinner for you and your family. Stocker Cows - I believe this means cows of an age (3-possibly 6 or 7?) that is still good breeding stock. Fellow members, am I correct here? Thanks!

4. What size do I want to consider buying? When I see prices for calves, do they mean just born (not Weened) or several months old?

For freezer beef, you probably want weaning steers or heifers. Up here the newborn calves are differentiated from the older ones. Again, I could be wrong, but generally speaking - based on the reports I have seen - there is a weight for the calf. Newborns usually don't weigh more than 100-110 pounds.

5. Here is a sample market price summary. Could someone help me decipher?

Slaughter cows, young heifer type cows, $60-80, utility and commercial cows $40-55, canners and cutters $25-39, good and choice bulls $60-68, medium-good bulls $55-59.
Stocker and feeder yearlings, steers, good-choice 6-7 $100-108, medium-good 6-7 $90-99, heifers, good-choice 6-7 $90-100; medium-good 6-7 $82-89.
Good-choice cows NT. Good-choice pairs NT. Common-medium cows NT. Common-medium pairs NT.
Baby calves $100-200.
Stocker and feeder calves, steers, 200-300 lbs., good-choice $140-170, medium-good $125-139, 300-400 lbs., good-choice $125-145, medium-good $111-124, 400-500 lbs., good-choice $110-127, medium-good $100-109, 500-600 lbs., good-choice $105-118, medium-good $90-104. Heifers, 200-300 lbs., good-choice $140-165, medium-good $130-139; 300-400 lbs., good-choice $120-140; medium-good $110-119; 400-500 lbs., good-choice $110-119, medium-good $102-109; 500-600 lbs., good-choice $105-112, medium-good $100-104.
Holstein steer calves, 200-400 lbs., 400-600 lbs., NT.

What are the prices. Is this per lb, or some other weight? Are some of the prices per head?

The prices are probably per cwt or 100 pounds of body weight.

6. Also I have heard that you want to stay away from cattle sales unless you are experienced. Is this true?

Very much so!! Do some research on conformation, body scale, different types of condition, etc, then go to the sales, look around at the cattle before the sale, what they are being fed, how they react to the yard help then go inside and watch what happens during the auction. Check out the audience (for lack of a better word) for a few weeks. You will probably get a good feel for who is there regularly and who is not. Try to get acquainted with the regulars and the old-timers. They have a lot of experience and knowledge to offer. Meanwhile, do your homework in livestock magazines and papers. I hope this helps.


Sorry about the long post, but I greatly appreciate any answers I may get.

Tim

 

[eric]

http://www.decaturlivestockmarket.com one of the nicest, cleanest salebarns around, sales are on Monday morning.

 

[tim1970]

From the responses, I believe I will go with a small steer. However to minimize my upfront costs (since I am new at this) I was thinking about going with something around 200 lbs, instead of 500-600 lbs as recommened above. Does anyone see a problem with this logic? Also a couple of other dumb questions... What is the average weight of a steer when weaned? How can I tell at an auction yard if a young steer is weaned? would like to start with as small as possible, but dont want to worry about bottle feeding to begin with.

 

[flaboy]

From the responses, I believe I will go with a small steer. However to minimize my upfront costs (since I am new at this) I was thinking about going with something around 200 lbs, instead of 500-600 lbs as recommened above. Does anyone see a problem with this logic? Also a couple of other dumb questions... What is the average weight of a steer when weaned? How can I tell at an auction yard if a young steer is weaned? would like to start with as small as possible, but dont want to worry about bottle feeding to begin with.

Tim, probably something in the 200 pound range will either not be weaned or will be sale barn weaned. Maybe there is someone in your area who might be willing to sell you something weaned in the 300-400 pound range. I sell these at times. I figure it makes room for another one on the trailer. I usually sell these for market price or maybe a few cents higher due to the fact they can select from what I have. I don't see anything wrong with your logic other than I would try to find something weaned and maybe already on grain.

 

[tim1970]

What do you mean by "Sale Barn Weaned". If I end up buying something in the 200-300lb range, then will I need to botte feed for a while, and then slowly switch to grain/hay?

 

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by "Sale Barn Weaned". If I end up buying something in the 200-300lb range, then will I need to botte feed for a while, and then slowly switch to grain/hay?

Rip them from mama's tit and put them on the truck - they get noisy.

The advice of a 400 plus pounder is solid. Usually no probs there. Vaccinate and let it eat. Tame it if you want to pet it.

Younger and you run risks of poor gain and possible extra expense in milk replacers and so on.

In this case I believe the "go big or stay home" thought is appropriate.

Remember it is food stock NOT pet stock. So do not let anyone fall in love with it.

Have fun and learn lots,

Bez'

 

[stocky]

Tim, 200 lbs is too big to try to bottle feed. If he just came off his mama at that weight, you will have to wean him and tame him down but he wont ever take a bottle. If you want to get one that size, you need to get one that has been bottle fed and from 3 days old. Where I live, there are dairies that bottle feed their calves. If there are any dairies around you, you can check and see if they will sell you a weaned bottle calf. There might even be some people on this board close to you that raise bottle calves. The problem you will have in buying a calf that was raised on a cow is it will take a few weeks to tame them down real good. You will need a good, strong, and tight pen to do this. If you will get a 500-600 lb calf it will save you 6 months in time until it is ready to butcher, however you will spend 300 dollars more to get it. Go with a weaned bucket calf is my advice

 

[tim1970]

I appreciate everybody's help. This has been great. Due to the fact of cost, and that this is my first attempt I would like to start out with something smaller. (200 - 300 lb range). Another reason for this, is that between myself, my 18 year old son, and my wife, someone will always be at the house to provide care, and keep an eye on things.

So, with all that said could someone help me with the proper way to get this calf completely weaned?

What kind of space do I keep him in to begin with? My barn is divided into 3 smaller stalls. Would 1 stall be too small a place to keep him to begin with? Do I need to get some fence panels, and build something a little bigger. Or can I turn him out in my fenced pasture? (about 6 acres).

Do I start him on some kind of grain, and then gradually reduce this until he is on nothing but hay/pasture?

Would it be best to get two calves at once, since I have no other cattle in my pasture?


Once again thanks for all your help.


Tim

 

[flaboy]

Tim, much depends on what you get. If you get one that is tame you can feed him for a few days and then turn him out. If you get one that is not so tame then you may want to keep it penned until it calms down. Turning it out depends on the type fence you have. I have seen wilder calves go through a barbed wire fence like a deer. I would make sure it gets used to me before turning it out. That way it will come looking for the bucket. As far as weaning goes it will be basically done if you get it from a sale barn. It would have been off its mom for some period but doesn't mean it will be ready to eat grain. Keep hay, grain, water in front of it. No bottle feeding will be necessary.

 

[bigbull338]

since you want to start with a 200 to 300lb calves.id say put them in the barn stall with feed water an hay.an be careful round them they can be wild.or you could build a pen they cant get out of an start them in there.or go from barn to pen in a wk.then when your comfy with them .turn them out on the pasture.but make sure you have good fences to hold them.dont want to have to chase them.scott

 

[mgman]

Keep in mind that cattle are herd animals. I would recommend more than 1 calf...unless you're buying something that has been bottle raised and is very tame. I'm afraid you may be searching the country side for your calf if you only get one that's just been weaned. If you decide to go that route definitely keep it confined in the barn for an extended (at least 1 month) period of time!

 

[Brandonm2]

Stocker and feeder calves, steers, 200-300 lbs., good-choice $140-170, medium-good $125-139, 300-400 lbs., good-choice $125-145, medium-good $111-124,

Well according to this, a 200 pound calf should cost you between ~$340 and $268 depending on the quality of the calf. A 400 pound calf is worth between ~$500 and $444 that means the cost of getting a bigger, older, less risky, healthier calf is ~$170 more. A 400 pound calf is much less likely to die on you or need as much time and effort as a 200 pound early weaner. He is only 400 to 500 pounds away from decent eating weight (if you are not trying to grow USDA Choice grocery store beef)so with a lite grain supplement, free choice winter hay, and your grass he should be ready for the freezer in ~300 days. That 200 pound calf is likely to take 430 days by my math and if you are supplementing him at 2.5 pounds of feed per day over those extra 130 days that means ~6 more sacks of feed at $5.6 per sack ($33). I know the 400 pound calf is more of an upfront cost but I think it be better to do a calf (or two) every year than have a calf out there for over a year.

 

[msscamp]

I appreciate everybody's help. This has been great. Due to the fact of cost, and that this is my first attempt I would like to start out with something smaller. (200 - 300 lb range). Another reason for this, is that between myself, my 18 year old son, and my wife, someone will always be at the house to provide care, and keep an eye on things.

Remember that the smaller the calf, the longer the time to butchering, the more it's going to cost in hay, possibly grain, time, labor.

So, with all that said could someone help me with the proper way to get this calf completely weaned?

Put him in a pen he cannot get out of and let nature take it's course. If he is not completely weaned, he will bawl for his mother for a 2-4 days and then he will quit..

What kind of space do I keep him in to begin with? My barn is divided into 3 smaller stalls. Would 1 stall be too small a place to keep him to begin with? Do I need to get some fence panels, and build something a little bigger. Or can I turn him out in my fenced pasture? (about 6 acres).

This is just my opinion, but I'm not real big on putting calves in a small space. Nor am I big on putting them in the barn. They need sunshine, fresh air and room to be calves. I would build an outside pen large enough for him to run, buck and play in the sunshine and fresh air that has an open front shed type overhang to provide shade and protection from rain, snow, etc. Depending on how small he is when you buy him, after he has put on a little weight and grown some, and you know he is weaned, he would be ready for the pasture.

Do I start him on some kind of grain, and then gradually reduce this until he is on nothing but hay/pasture?

Would it be best to get two calves at once, since I have no other cattle in my pasture?

Ideally company would be nice for your calf, also you have one waiting in the wings for when you start running out of meat, but that's going to up your expense.


Once again thanks for all your help.


Tim

 

[ND]

like said earlier, even with a good fence, that size calf might go through fence like a deer, once they do that they get extremely scared and start running, probably worse by themself. that will start a big rodeo that isn't fun at all.

just something to keep in mind, my suggestions--keep a good eye
on them, with 6 acres you should be able to do that fairly easy.

on 4th of July this year, i was ready to walk out the house to go to the town parade, got a call- cows broke gate down, fluke deal, great fence, plenty of grass and water. i drove 60 miles to my pasture the neighbors up there had gotten most of the cattle in but their was 6 calves still out, we chased them for miles and hours. by the end of the day, i bought a $3.00 gate stick for $20 and about 7 broken down corn stocks for $100.

maybe next year i will get to go to the parade ;-)