A few bull pics

[hereford_jock]

8198 after being on cows for awhile

 

[alexfarms]

Nice pictures. He looks like a good bull.

 

[S&S Farms]

I would like to see a tighter sheath.


Jeff

 

[BrownCow]

I would like to see a tighter sheath.


Jeff

I agree,I see a great potential for problems there,other than that I think he is a good bull.

BC

 

[Jake]

Having seen the bull in person I would say that the fact that he has been breeding that cow has had some effect on his sheath. He is very clean underneath and a smooth traveling bull. I had always sworn I woudln't breed hereford but I did breed some heifers to this bull this year and expect some good things from the cross.

He is extremely sound and carries a magnificent muscle package that is hard to find on a lot of the slab sided flat muscled herefords that are so popular in the studs today. After walking through Hawkeye breeders in the last few weeks and seeing the 4-5 herfs they had there is no comparison in quality. If herefords as a breed were more similar to 8198 they would have a lot more prominence in the industry. As I see alot of the other bulls that I have seen in person in the last year there are few to none that match or better 8198.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

He is extremely sound and carries a magnificent muscle package that is hard to find on a lot of the slab sided flat muscled herefords that are so popular in the studs today. After walking through Hawkeye breeders in the last few weeks and seeing the 4-5 herfs they had there is no comparison in quality.

Well that's a tease. Why not just naming names. No use beating around the bush.

 

[Jake]

He is extremely sound and carries a magnificent muscle package that is hard to find on a lot of the slab sided flat muscled herefords that are so popular in the studs today. After walking through Hawkeye breeders in the last few weeks and seeing the 4-5 herfs they had there is no comparison in quality.

Well that's a tease. Why not just naming names. No use beating around the bush.

The only one that had a name card up was a NJW Tank son. The others were fresh in and had no identification that I can give you. There were just the average hereford that you'd see somebody run through the last 3rd of a sale IMO. I had seen several other hereford bulls in Manhattan this year including a Rambo son and a couple others you will have to let me try to recall their pedigrees. (since I'm not a hereford man I have trouble keeping them straight) They were just bulls... The rambo son was tall but not as much dimension as I like to see.

 

[CPL]

What's his reg. number?

 

[hereford_jock]

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=51515F

 

[SRBeef]

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=232F50&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C225822232725&9=51515F

I don't mean to be impolite, just trying to learn something here. Looking at the EPD's and graph especially for the above animal what is it about him that would overcome the very low weaning and yearling weight EPD's? Jim

 

[JHH]

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=232F50&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C225822232725&9=51515F

I don't mean to be impolite, just trying to learn something here. Looking at the EPD's and graph especially for the above animal what is it about him that would overcome the very low weaning and yearling weight EPD's? Jim

Jim I really should not say anything as I dont know for sure. BUT he is out of a 1975 bull and a donor dam(I think) He should be ok for NUMBERS after a few calf crops. The more he is used the more the numbers will change and the ACCURACY will jump also. He should be a very good AVERAGE bull if that makes sense.No suprises like 606.

He is a King Ten son from Weise and sons. I dont know if he was at denver or not. I know they took some king ten sons to Denver a couple years ago.

 

[JHH]

He is extremely sound and carries a magnificent muscle package that is hard to find on a lot of the slab sided flat muscled herefords that are so popular in the studs today. After walking through Hawkeye breeders in the last few weeks and seeing the 4-5 herfs they had there is no comparison in quality.

Well that's a tease. Why not just naming names. No use beating around the bush.

The only one that had a name card up was a NJW Tank son. The others were fresh in and had no identification that I can give you. There were just the average hereford that you'd see somebody run through the last 3rd of a sale IMO. I had seen several other hereford bulls in Manhattan this year including a Rambo son and a couple others you will have to let me try to recall their pedigrees. (since I'm not a hereford man I have trouble keeping them straight) They were just bulls... The rambo son was tall but not as much dimension as I like to see.

I am afraid rambo will do just what you said if not mated properly. While I have no experience with him I just figured as much.

 

[hereford_jock]

yes, the age of the sire has the most to do with his wt and yt, also if you know the cow family this bull is out of they arent huge cows by any means. There is a lot of moderation built into this bull which isnt a bad thing. Also, numbers dont mean everything, this is the type of bull that will spike to 1000 lbs and then moderate. All the hereford breed needs is bulls running around with 100+ YW!

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Some people just can't see past EPDs. After they breed cattle a few years it starts to dawn on them slowly.

SR is happy with his EPD bull from his EPD seedstock supplier so good for him.

I don't chase EPDS. There are many traits of more importance. Hereford EPDs are estimates built on estimates built on guesses and low accuracy. They are next to meaningless in my book.

EPDs are kinda like value investing. Warren Buffett once said "either you get it or you don't"

 

[hereford_jock]

Exactly WLM! A bull can have the most perfect epds there are possible, but if he's a puke to look at than why would you want to breed to him! Happens all the time thou

 

[SRBeef]

Some people just can't see past EPDs. After they breed cattle a few years it starts to dawn on them slowly.

SR is happy with his EPD bull from his EPD seedstock supplier so good for him.

I don't chase EPDS. There are many traits of more importance. Hereford EPDs are estimates built on estimates built on guesses and low accuracy. They are next to meaningless in my book.

EPDs are kinda like value investing. Warren Buffett once said "either you get it or you don't"

Ok, I understand that it takes visual and EPD's to make a bull.

However this bull is in the bottom 12% of the breed for weaning weights and yearling weights. He is not average but near the bottom. And these are two important criteria.

And these are criteria you can NOT see looking at a bull.

IF EPD's are THAT inaccurate why even have them? Why have folks spent the last 40 years working on them? I can see where calving ease would flip flop considerably but not weaning weight or yearling weight. These numbers must come from somewhere....

Ok I'll retreat to my computer.... Like I said, I am just trying to learn something here. Jim

 

[KNERSIE]

Jim, can you activate your private messages please?

 

[Brandonm22]

Jim I wouldn't worry TOO much about that bull's EPDs. His sire (King Ten) is a 1975 bull. I don't profess to fully understand it but pre-early 80s there are some discrepancies with the EPD system. It has something to do with how the data bases were merged and how the old numbers were treated. His accuracy is only 24% so I expect those numbers will move considerably when he is bred to modern Hereford cows. If he gets to 60% accuracy and the numbers aren't moving up substantially avoid him. A lot of people really liked the King Ten daughters. It is a nostalgic name (and the average rancher is ~60) and those were good cows. Sometimes folks are willing to give up some growth to get sound, functional females. You are right though, that if you are marketing EPDs or are breeding primarily for market beef, this is not likely to be a good sire for you.

 

[JHH]

Jim I should have said it this way. He SHOULD produce those 1100-1200 lb target cows you like that will be sound and have good udders. If you want numbers you will have to use a different bull.

 

[SRBeef]

Thank you all. Like I said, just trying to learn something. And I have.

Another monsoon going through tonight. might as well open a beer and read the boards... jim