A Different Breed

[JWBrahman]

It's hard to be different when a black calf brings $200 more than other colors. But we need operations like Backbone Ranch and Walnut Crest who are trying to make something besides Black Angus work for everyone. Thank you for doing what you do to keep our genetic diversity alive.


A great documentary about one man's journey to save our genetic heritage in Washington Parish, Louisiana.

John Coykendall Deeply Rooted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyKOmltsa2U

 

[Ky hills]

Yes, I agree, I'm glad to see other breeds being preserved. When the Angus craze hit, lots of herds switched over, and as a result a lot of years of breeding were lost and replaced by oftentimes lesser quality black hided cattle. Frustrating to watch common black hided calves outsell better quality red Angus, or Hereford calves. For what it's worth we are using Hereford cattle now, cows and bulls.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Yes, I agree, I'm glad to see other breeds being preserved. When the Angus craze hit, lots of herds switched over, and as a result a lot of years of breeding were lost and replaced by oftentimes lesser quality black hided cattle. Frustrating to watch common black hided calves outsell better quality red Angus, or Hereford calves. For what it's worth we are using Hereford cattle now, cows and bulls.

Are you marketing the feeders through special sales? MrVictorDomino told me of some sales to check out when I had a few Hereford steers to sell but the numbers didn't justify the distance I would have needed to travel. I took my beating at our local barn and made sure I only had baldy calves from then on.

 

[Ky hills]

Yes, I agree, I'm glad to see other breeds being preserved. When the Angus craze hit, lots of herds switched over, and as a result a lot of years of breeding were lost and replaced by oftentimes lesser quality black hided cattle. Frustrating to watch common black hided calves outsell better quality red Angus, or Hereford calves. For what it's worth we are using Hereford cattle now, cows and bulls.

Are you marketing the feeders through special sales? MrVictorDomino told me of some sales to check out when I had a few Hereford steers to sell but the numbers didn't justify the distance I would have needed to travel. I took my beating at our local barn and made sure I only had baldy calves from then on.

Yes, we are taking them to a Hereford influence sale at Bluegrass South in Stanford. They do sell well in comparison on those sale days, however it seem that the market is usually in a slump at the time of the fall sale. Several times I probably lost money by holding them a couple extra months for the sale.
Baldy calves do well there as well, but they will also do well at about any regular sale too. My wife and I were talking the other day that we probably should take our baldy calves to a regular sale. We are using Hereford bulls mostly this year, then next year we may have a couple of those black Hereford bulls in addition to the red. Actually when I said black Hereford bulls, I'm really saying some home raised, BWF, one is a 3/4 Angus with a white face, figuring on all of his calves being BWF.

 

[cbcr]

This video was very interesting, and his philosophy can also apply to animals.

There are breeds of cattle that have been lost, mainly in the New England and New York area that were here in the US dating back to Colonial Times.

Other breeds are endangered of being lost too. Part of this is because the people who have them are getting older, and when it comes the time that they can no longer take care of their animals, family members don't care they just load them up and take them to the nearest sale barn.

Heritage breeds have been used to make new breeds or improve existing breeds. But these Heritage breeds not only are a part of our History, but they are important in what the breed can contribute, not only to their own breed but to other breeds as well.

Earlier this year we were doing some research on Dutch Belted animals in the European Countries. Over there they are also referred to as Lakenvelder. In the UK their is a breed called Sheeted Somerset that used to exist but became extinct because in the 1930's due to a TB outbreak and animals had to be destroyed. There is a group that is trying to re-create the Sheeted Somerset cattle by crossing the Dutch Belted/Lakenvelder with their Native Red cattle. But, the original breed has been extinct for almost 90 years, so the original genetics are gone forever. This breed may be duplicated, but it will never be the same as the original.

As beef or dairy producers, everyone has their breed of preference and for some any other breed besides what they have doesn't count as a breed.

As some have said, it is unfortunate that everyone seems to think that cattle have to be black, to the point that when cattle of a different breed or color are sold that are much better quality they are penalized because of color. Race discrimination!

Dairy and beef producers are slowly being squeezed out and the amount of investment that it takes for a young person to start is prohibitive. But something has to be done.

 

[JWBrahman]

When the history books are written about how America was conquered without firing a shot they will emphasize that between 2008-2016 we gave foreign countries control of our food supply.

 

[NonTypicalCPA]

I'm in!

 

[WalnutCrest]

It's hard to be different when a black calf brings $200 more than other colors. But we need operations like Backbone Ranch and Walnut Crest who are trying to make something besides Black Angus work for everyone. Thank you for doing what you do to keep our genetic diversity alive.

Thank you.

The core of my best females are still available (almost all are either donors or daughters of donors), and my semen tank and embryos can be made available if you or anyone else wants to step in. I'm also happy to help, in the right situation, with breeding ideas / consulting, etc.

I'd really like it if someone bought them all.

 

[Dave]

Two big breeders here have their bull sales back to back. One is a Angus breeder the other Hereford. This last spring the Herefords averaged nearly $2,000 more per head. There is a guy northwest of me who has 2,000 black hided cows. In his bull pasture there is 100 horned Hereford bulls.
The switch to black Angus didn't happen over night. In the PNW it was nearly 100% Hereford back in the 70's. Then in the 80's people started going with Angus bulls. Baldie replacements slowly became straight black hided. Now people working back toward hybrid vigor and those baldie cows.

 

[ccr]

When the history books are written about how America was conquered without firing a shot they will emphasize that between 2008-2016 we gave foreign countries control of our food supply.

JW sorry for my ignorance, but would you mind expounded on this a little bit or point me in the direction to learn about what you are referring to.

thank you

 

[andybob]

The core of my best females are still available (almost all are either donors or daughters of donors), and my semen tank and embryos can be made available if you or anyone else wants to step in. I'm also happy to help, in the right situation, with breeding ideas / consulting, etc.
I'd really like it if someone bought them all.

I, too would like to see your program adopted by a progressive rancher. The need to protect a healthy gene pool of lesser known breeds is essential due to the need for different traits as markets and production systems evolve. An increasing interest in using Mashona bulls over Hereford to produce a heat tolerant Baldy is an interesting development I have been following. An advantage of this cross is that if crossed to Angus, there would be a good infusion of heterosis in this cross as well.

 

[cbcr]

When the history books are written about how America was conquered without firing a shot they will emphasize that between 2008-2016 we gave foreign countries control of our food supply.

JW sorry for my ignorance, but would you mind expounded on this a little bit or point me in the direction to learn about what you are referring to.

thank you

If I would take a guess, look at the slaughter plants. JBS out of Brazil own many of the beef slaughter plants and Smithfield is owned by the Chinese.

With the issues that agriculture is having in California, more and more of our produce is being imported.

These are issues that HAVE and NEED to be corrected. We may be in a global economy, but IMO I feel that processing facilities should be American owned.

We have a shortage of labor for most of the vegetable production as it seems that the majority of Americans refuse to work on these farms. It is unfortunate that we have to rely on immigrant labor for these jobs because Americans are too lazy.

 

[Son of Butch]

We have a shortage of labor.....
as it seems that the majority of Americans refuse to work on these farms.
It is unfortunate that we have to rely on immigrant labor for these jobs
because Americans are too lazy.

:bs:
No.... Because Farm Prices and Farm Wages Are Too Low!

Last week I bought Large White Grade A Eggs for my cat, 48 cents a dozen... 4 cents each!
A large egg weighs 2 oz (2 cents oz) and has more nutrition than dry cat food at 5 cents an ounce.
I've been buying seedless grapes all summer in Minnesota for 89 cents lb... so sweet and ridiculous.

Food prices in usa are too low, because farm wages are too low.

A gallon of bottled water costs more than a gallon of milk.
Yet how many gallons of water does a cow drink to produce a gallon of milk?
Calculated on a cow's lifetime water consumption vs lifetime milk production it's insane.

 

[jd720]

Personally I would be raising all Shorthorns if it was financially feasible. I had several Shorthorn cows until it got to a point when I took them to a local sale barn they would sell them as singles just because of color and they were bringing less than Holstein feeders at times. All of the calves were better muscled than the black calves they just didn`t fit in because they weren`t black. Unfortunately I had to change breeds and went to all Simmental which I like Simmentals but sure miss those pretty Shorthorn cows.

 

[cbcr]

It is unfortunate that we have became color blind with so many believing that if an animal isn't black it is not a good animal.

There are so many breeds that can perform just as well and most cases better than black hided animals.

In the process of turning breeds black, we have lost the original breed. With everything being black with so much Angus influence hybrid vigor is not what it should be.

Breeders should be able to breed the breed of their choice and receive a decent price for their animals when they sell them.

All of this "black" is the result of the CAB marketing program. No other breed has the marketing dollars that CAB does at this point to promote their breed.

 

[Dave]

A little experiment for you to try. Go buy 100 good black steers. Then go buy 100 other colored steers of equal quality. Treat them equally. Send them all to a feedlot while retaining ownership. Have the feedlot keep them separate but fed the same. When you get the close out checks on the two separate pens you will know the reason people are willing to pay more for those black hided steers. It may not be right but if you are in it to make money it is the way it is.

 

[WalnutCrest]

The core of my best females are still available (almost all are either donors or daughters of donors), and my semen tank and embryos can be made available if you or anyone else wants to step in. I'm also happy to help, in the right situation, with breeding ideas / consulting, etc.
I'd really like it if someone bought them all.

I, too would like to see your program adopted by a progressive rancher. The need to protect a healthy gene pool of lesser known breeds is essential due to the need for different traits as markets and production systems evolve. An increasing interest in using Mashona bulls over Hereford to produce a heat tolerant Baldy is an interesting development I have been following. An advantage of this cross is that if crossed to Angus, there would be a good infusion of heterosis in this cross as well.

Thank you.

 

[Ky hills]

It is unfortunate that we have became color blind with so many believing that if an animal isn't black it is not a good animal.

There are so many breeds that can perform just as well and most cases better than black hided animals.

In the process of turning breeds black, we have lost the original breed. With everything being black with so much Angus influence hybrid vigor is not what it should be.

Breeders should be able to breed the breed of their choice and receive a decent price for their animals when they sell them.

All of this "black" is the result of the CAB marketing program. No other breed has the marketing dollars that CAB does at this point to promote their breed.

Good post. I think along those same lines as far as the other breeds that have turned black, there has to logically be a dilution of hybrid vigor. I also will take it a bit further and say that Angus have lost their identity in large part due to the CAB program. If one goes to the stockyards its quite difficult to quickly tell what is Angus and what is wanna be Angus. I don't blame folks at all for using Angus cattle, at one time they were likely the most problem free mainstream breed as a whole, unfortunately I believe that has been negated in a lot of herds. I still prefer to use an Angus bull on heifers, and have no problem using one with cows as well. Herefords are not without their issues either, but seem to be a better all around fit for us. The discount in a regular sale is real and frustrating, thus no wonder folks are using black hided cattle. We are currently using Hereford bulls, for the purpose of getting females. Then the crazy part of my plan is to go with a BWF bull, less hybrid vigor, but maybe the resulting calves would be a higher percentage Hereford and retain more of the traits that we like.

 

[Silver]

A little experiment for you to try. Go buy 100 good black steers. Then go buy 100 other colored steers of equal quality. Treat them equally. Send them all to a feedlot while retaining ownership. Have the feedlot keep them separate but fed the same. When you get the close out checks on the two separate pens you will know the reason people are willing to pay more for those black hided steers. It may not be right but if you are in it to make money it is the way it is.

So a black hided Angus will outperform a red hided Angus on feed? :lol:

I am fortunate to raise cattle in a part of the world where quality matters more than colour. There is no premium for black cattle in the sale ring here anymore. There was for four or five years, but that hasn't been the case now for some time.
Even when black calves where getting the best price per pound they never got the most price per head at any sale I went to. I'm not going to go speculating on the profit per head or profit per acre, just sale ring results.

 

[76 Bar]

So a black hided Angus will outperform a red hided Angus on feed? :lol:

Don't be so mean...lotsa people have bought the cool aide. :roll: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: