4H steer gaining too much...

[milkmaid]

I mean, like 5+ pounds per day. :shock:

I need some suggestions for feed for this guy so we're not over-finished by fair time. He's a red angus steer, might be crossed with Saler or something similar. Right now he's approx. 1100lbs (+ or - 10 lbs), and we have approx. 80 days left until fair time. The fellow that will be judging steers at the fair comes from a feedlot and likes the steers around 1300-1400lbs, but obviously mine will be w-a-y over that if I let him gain at the current rate.

He's getting free-choice hay (grass/alfalfa mix) + a special mix of grain I concoct myself. It consists of (exactly) -
1 pound of cottonseed (24% protein)
7 pounds of rolled corn/barley mix (@ about 50/50 mix)
7 pounds of a Purina Show Chow feed @ 14% protein, 5% fat.
That's a total of only 15lbs of grain per day...but I've been weighing him every couple weeks on the same scale and he is gaining an awful lot of weight.

Any suggestions as to how to slow him down/what to feed to keep him looking nice without over-finishing him or going over 1400lbs?

Thanks!

 

[ctlbaron]

Is this boy is penned up all the time or on pasture? Is he bulky fat or just lean and heavy?

 

[mobetter11]

Cut out some of the corn/barley mix and replace it with beet pulp then watch him, the last 30 days depending on what weight he's at, pour the feed back to him.

If he's on pasture, then cut feed slowly to where you are just feeding half to hold him back, then last thirty days depending on weight, pour feed back to him.

You have to weigh him about once a week to keep track, so that you know when to start feeding him a bunch again to get him to your target weight.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

If he was mine, would cut out the supplemental feed and put him on straight pasture, some 10-12% or so grass hay, mineral tub, salt, water. Anything over 3# per day weight gain is getting a little much. 5# per day is way too much, IMO.

 

[ollie]

Milk maid you better go find his testicles and have them reattached if he is gaining 5 lbs per day and converting 3 to 1.

 

[Bez]

RAB is on the money - daughter won Northern Alberta with an Angus / Simm / LH cross that we had to slow down.

As for Ollies comments - how true!

Bez

 

[preston39]

mikmaid,
"Only"..15 pounds of grain per day. Whoa :roll: He would have to gain weight...much weight...cut it down to 1-2 lbs...IF ANY... a day and keep him on a good pasture. Thats a lot of weight for his body to assemble to the right areas for appearance.....suprised you haven't got a pot belly going...huh?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Milkmaid, I would totally ignore the suggestions to put him on pasture if you are going to show him.
I would keep him right where you have him. You have 80 days left. At 5#/day that's another 400#. If he is 1100# now - that would be 1500#. I seriously don't think he will continue at the 5# level. He will slow down. Also, you don't want to decrease his intake very much at this time if you want quality beef for the end product. He should just now be putting internal fat, if he quits gaining, he will start drawing from that internal fat FIRST = not the external fat.
So, I would suggest EXERCISE. He should be walked at least 1 hour day. Of course, who has time for that!! Do you have a dry lot that he can get exercise in. Would help if he had a playmate to exercise with. Sounds silly, but steers are VERY lazy.
You have a good gainer, but he must be eating lots of REALLY good hay, because I don't know of any calf getting a 3-1 ratio on gain. (15# grain/5#gain).
Exercise will help him from having a lot of SOFT fat. I would drop the barley (replace with equal corn), it tends to increase external fat & is usually a soft fat.
Sounds like you are doing a great job. Keep it up.

 

[jerry27150]

agree with jeanne

 

[milkmaid]

Thanks for the replies.

Jeanne- that's what I was hoping someone would say. I've been told by several folks NOT to put him on pasture (one friend lost two steers to bloat last year by "turning them out" to pasture for a few hours/day). I honestly can't afford to lose my steer.

I had a calf this spring that I turned out with some calves a few months older than him and he didn't get his fair share of grain. Took me a while before I noticed what had happened and by then he looked awful and very potbellied. That's why I've been uncertain about cutting back my steer's feed - I don't want a dull coat and pot belly on this show animal.

As to hay, I make sure he has free-choice in front of him all the time, but he's only cleaning up about 10-15lbs of alfalfa, 10lbs of grass per day. The grass hay is decent quality, but the alfalfa is a little stemmy. I don't like it quite as well as some other stuff I've bought before.

With the corn, I've heard some folks say that too much corn tends to put a pot-belly on them - not enough protein to make them grow "up", I guess. Is that true - ie, do I need to be careful how much corn I'm giving him?

Oh - and yes, he is gaining that much weight, folks. He put on 114lbs in 21 days, which comes out to 5.43lbs/day. I actually had the scale reset and ran him over again just to make sure, because it seemed like too much.

I've been walking him a little bit down our road (we get some strange looks from passer-bys!) but only going about 1/2 mile, and we haven't been doing it every day. Some folks have said they walk their steers a mile a day; is that a common practice, and is that a good distance to work towards?

Thanks again for the help and being patient with me. It's my first year with a steer project and I'm just learning. ;-)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Pasture will give you yellow fat - which won't affect a live show, but not desireable for carcass. It will also make his food process through his system too quickly (because of the high protein) and he won't get as much benefit from all the good grain you are giving him.

Free choice hay is the best - keeps his stomach healthy, but most steer jocks will limit the hay because of the larger gut. People don't understand that the more hay they eat - the more grain they will be able to digest.
Corn does not give a pot belly. Actually, I would decrease your high protein feed & increase the corn. After 800-900#, they don't need but about 9-10% protein. Corn is usually about 9%. Protein grows frame, and you are trying to lay in fat. Corn = fat

Think of it as people food - steaks are high protein, doesn't make you fat. Potatoes are high starch, makes you fatter.

Walking is absolutely the best. And yes, I hear them talk about walking the steers a mile. Not only is it good exercise to keep the muscles toned up, it helps their ability to stand for a long show. They get used to you handling them & keeping them under control for a long time.

Good luck.

 

[ctlbaron]

Way too much feed. Put him on pasture. We don't walk our steers. He'll get enough exercise out picking. Besides it takes too long to get their sneakers on. We have to stop every little bit to tie them. Just kidding!!

 

[easter]

milkmaid,

sounds like you are doing a fine job with your steer. don't put him on pasture just keep feeding him and walk the animal.
,

 

[MikeC]

I mean, like 5+ pounds per day. :shock:

I need some suggestions for feed for this guy so we're not over-finished by fair time. He's a red angus steer, might be crossed with Saler or something similar. Right now he's approx. 1100lbs (+ or - 10 lbs), and we have approx. 80 days left until fair time. The fellow that will be judging steers at the fair comes from a feedlot and likes the steers around 1300-1400lbs, but obviously mine will be w-a-y over that if I let him gain at the current rate.

He's getting free-choice hay (grass/alfalfa mix) + a special mix of grain I concoct myself. It consists of (exactly) -
1 pound of cottonseed (24% protein)
7 pounds of rolled corn/barley mix (@ about 50/50 mix)
7 pounds of a Purina Show Chow feed @ 14% protein, 5% fat.
That's a total of only 15lbs of grain per day...but I've been weighing him every couple weeks on the same scale and he is gaining an awful lot of weight.

Any suggestions as to how to slow him down/what to feed to keep him looking nice without over-finishing him or going over 1400lbs?

Thanks!

Cut way back on the protein. When developing bulls I start out at a 14% ration and by the time they are 1100-1500 I take it down to 10%. All that protein will reduce internal organ functions.

Watch his manure piles. It's a good indicator of how his digestive tract is operating. If the manure is piled too high he needs more protein, when it gets too loose - take it away. If it ever gets to be a grey color and real loose - WATCH OUT- it's a sign of acidosis!

 

[tcline]

Milk maid,

Where in SE idaho are you?

Todd

 

[greenwillowherefords]

That steer should have been left intact-if he was straight red Angus. That is close to the kind of gain that the top two bulls on test at OBI achieved, and better than the average!

 

[milkmaid]

You know, to the best of my knowledge and the fellow I got this steer from, the bull he's by only came from a local rancher, no fancy genetics or imported bloodlines. He's just a commercial critter and I thought he was put together alright.

tcline - I'm up by Rexburg.

Thanks again for the input. I'm going to give the folks at the 4H office a call and see if I can get him weighed tomorrow during their lunch break. They've been real good about running over to the fairgrounds to help weigh him on the digital scale.

More questions about the feed. I thought I'd read from time to time folks saying that they've seen rectal prolapses from too much protein. Something to do with too much straining and the manure being too hard. Now I just read another post that says too much protein = really loose manure. (That one actually makes a little more sense to me as I've seen dairy cows' manure get really loose on cottonseed and green grass.) Which way is it?

Jeanne- if corn=fat, wouldn't I want to increase protein/or keep the feed the same so he's not putting on more weight? I must be missing something here or not thinking clearly, but it just sounds to me like if I wanted him to gain just a little less, I wouldn't want to feed something that would pack the pounds on (yet).

I've heard folks say to keep free choice feed (in this case hay) in front of them to avoid bloat. Otherwise they'd be having hours with no feed, then gorging themselves...makes sense to me, and I'd have to have a really good reason not to give him free choice hay.

Also, I have a younger brother that's doing a pig project, and I happened to be reading through the different types of feed folks recommend for pigs...one type of feed was designed for the last 2-3 weeks before the fair and it's a 30% protein, 1-2% fat to make the pig "...pop with muscle definetion" - exact wording. Can/should you do that to a steer too the last few weeks before the fair? or are steers supposed to be just fat?

Thanks again for the help. We haven't even started 4H meetings here, so I'm kinda on my own until we start meeting...maybe even after that. The last couple years when I've watched the steer show the judges have said most of the steers aren't finished yet. And that's with several different judges, not just the feedlot guy that judged last year.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

High protein = loose manure DEFINATELY.
I'm guessing your steer isn't showing a lot of fat. I may be totally wrong. Red meat and bone weighs more than fat, so, usually, they gain less when they reach the stage of putting on fat.
You want him to have his flank dropped down with fat (grab the flank - you want to feel about 1/2 inch of fat), you should see fat pockets on both sides of the tail head, his brisket should be filling out and if you check his rbs, you want about 1/2 inch fat layer.
Now, there's a difference in fat pockets and huge fat globs. You need to be able to visually see if he's getting too fat.
He should get the appearance of a SLIGHT "jiggle" look when he moves quickly.
"last 2-3 weeks before the fair and it's a 30% protein, 1-2% fat to make the pig "...pop with muscle definetion" - exact wording"
Never heard of this, so can't comment. There are lots of tricks to the trade when it comes to showing jackpot steers/hogs. Waaayy out of my league. I just know how to finish steers. Finishing jackpot show steers is a business all in its own. They can keep a steer "ready" for months to go from show to show.

 

[milkmaid]

I'm guessing your steer isn't showing a lot of fat. I may be totally wrong. Red meat and bone weighs more than fat, so, usually, they gain less when they reach the stage of putting on fat.
You want him to have his flank dropped down with fat (grab the flank - you want to feel about 1/2 inch of fat), you should see fat pockets on both sides of the tail head, his brisket should be filling out and if you check his rbs, you want about 1/2 inch fat layer.
Now, there's a difference in fat pockets and huge fat globs. You need to be able to visually see if he's getting too fat.
He should get the appearance of a SLIGHT "jiggle" look when he moves quickly.

Ohhhhh....now that makes lots of sense! ;-) I get it now. He's not showing as much fat as you described...he has fat over his ribs but sometimes you can see the last rib or two when he moves. Not like you'd see the ribs on a holstein, it's just a barely-see type of thing. Makes you wonder if you really saw it or not. He doesn't have much fat around his tail head yet either. Not that big a deal yet as we're not 'that' close to the fair, but he does have a ways to go before he's finished.

OK, so I'll go ahead and up the corn. How does a change from 7lbs corn/barley mix to 2 3/4lbs corn/barley mix (1 coffee can) + 5 1/2lbs corn sound? That's a total of 8 1/4lbs corn and barley, so a bit more than he was getting before, but not too much more. I don't want to change anything too drastically; I've been making my feed changes on a weekly basis by a pound or two so as not to upset his digestion too much.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You have the right idea. And changing feed every 7 days if VERY good management. It takes the bugs & the stomach 7 days to change over to new feed.
By changing as you suggested - that's an increase of 1 1/4 # feed. Now DROP 1 1/4# of the Purina Chow.
You're wanting to increase the corn and decrease the high protein feed - gradually. You can easily make 2 pound changes each week - as long as he LIKES/will eat the change. That would be 1# change AM & PM. (add 1# corn - drop 1# Chow).
You are a good "feeder" - keep up the good work.