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Red Bull Breeder":27d7qgno said:
I kinda believe your a liar. Been running limousin cattle for 30 plus years on nothing but pasture. They have done just fine. Them aubuckles might be alright I wouldn't know. But I do know Limousin.

I kinda believe I'm not a liar.

What I do kinda believe is that my opinion of Limousin cattle has been affected by having cattle who were bred for decades to do well in a different environment than the one I run, and THAT may have been a bigger influence than the breed itself. I had the experience I had with the cattle I had --- and, quite possibly I have painted with too broad a brush.

I'll think on this; I'm quite happy to amend my views as I get new info.
 
cow pollinater":upxb3shh said:
WalnutCrest":upxb3shh said:
No. I don't have RFI data on our cattle like you'd get at a feedlot, etc.

What I have is (i) actual stories from others who've run Aubrac steers in a feedlot alongside commercial angus steers in a feedlot --- and in the same amount of time, the Aubracs grew to (iirc) 95-98% of the size of the Angus and did so on 70% the feed and with 10% of the vet bills ... and ... (ii) personal experience running Aubracs alongside cattle of other breeds.
That doesn't cut it for me. I'm not doubting you at all as I suspect Aubracs are fairly efficient at converting feed but commercial angus doesn't tell me much as most of them don't RFI all that well and unless you measure actual feed intake you really don't have any way of knowing how much they gain per pound of feed. Easy fleshing and feed conversion are not the same thing.

I understand your point.

I was not and am not trying to make anything cut it for you.

Just sharing my experiences with the cattle I have under my care.
 
Stocker Steve":36y8i4ks said:
Bought a bunch of broken mouth Limi cows at a dispersal. Culled two that were huge. The rest are still in the pasture and fat. They hold condition better than any breed I run except for Hereford. I suspect they eat a bit more but I have no way to measure that.

Interesting.

How long have you had them?

Were they from a pasture-only operation?
 
Previous owner had a TMR... I do not.
They are raising their second calves for me. Nice Limi cross calves from front pasture cows. A lot of capacity and shiny red.
They will outgain my English breeds and stay fat, but I do think they also eat more.
 
I loved this discussion and where it went. Read it all. The question that started to emerge, at least for me, is about composites.

I'm surprised no one mentioned composite breeds, and not very much the use of balancer-type bulls for composite-type herds. From my experience with another species—sheep, Katahdins—the combination of traits, fair to very good genotypical uniformity, AND the preservation of heterosis make composites another answer to the question, Purebred or crossbred base?

Of course, composites gradually tend to become just another pure breed. Especially with use of popular sires. I mean, they may be a great new breed, but heterosis is gradually lost. A couple large operations that originated composites that became breeds, King Ranch in Texas and Adams Ranch in Florida, have created new composites, as most know. A response to market demands for better meat quality and quantity, plus more polled.

In both cases, half their new composites were the old composites that were and are fitted to extreme environments—very hot, basically. As an aside, I find it interesting that both with the Santa Gertrudis and the Braford, the two ranches picked red Angus and Gelbvieh to form the other half of the new breeds. Probably the Adams advisers were influenced by what the King Ranch and its experts picked. But, anyway, each decided what their old breed needed to meet market conditions was better carcass, more polled, and the touch of Continental for milk and growth.

Since I grew up near Adams Ranch, I'd be really interested in knowing how their new Abeef composite holds up to the brutal heat and humidity, insects, and low quality forage. Their Brafords were small cows by today's standards, and tough. They started with Cracker cattle, scrawny survivors, and graded them up with Brahman. then they blended in Hereford to make the Braford. So a lot is folded in there.

Maybe in your environment, winter and ability to winter is a bigger factor. But let's hear it.

There are really smart people who comment on this board who are apparently successful with very different systems. What I learned with sheep? Buy stock from someone who is raising what you want to raise and how you want to do it. Buy from a similar environment if possible. The best thing probably is to buy from someone who's successful in your own region and do exactly what he does. Plus, that way, there'll be more service after the sale.

That's not exactly what I did, because the Katahdin was up and coming, still a bit odd, when I started. It is now the American sheep world's most popular breed—based on registrations, not yet numbers. And maybe will never displace the big western flocks and shouldn't. Those are composites, for the most part, adapted to their environments.
 
Thanks, I mostly lurk. I enjoy the information and discussions a lot, and love cattle even though I don't own any. Maybe in retirement . . . What little I may have to offer is from raising meat sheep successfully, selling lambs for meat and breeding stock. I made lots of mistakes, but after 10 years was getting my act together when injuries and a career move intervened.

I wrote a book about it: Shepherd: A Memoir by me, Richard Gilbert, available on Amazon ya'll . . . It tells the story as well of my father's ranching adventures after WWII in California—polled Herefords on 9,000 acres of mountain desert near Hemet, where I was born—and his switching to commercial cattle on 800 acres in southwestern Georgia, near Leesburg. He couldn't make enough money eventually—too much capital tied up in land, machinery, cattle—so moved us to Florida and worked at Kennedy Space Center. When he retired he founded and ran a successful native plants nursery. That's interwoven with my story of becoming a shepherd in southeastern Ohio.
 

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