blacksnake
Well-known member
DOC
I think your link should be Bovigensolutions rather than Bovegensolutions. A little typo.
I think your link should be Bovigensolutions rather than Bovegensolutions. A little typo.
10 star bull
- Thread starter oldshep
- Start date
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preston39
Well-known member
============Aero":298jwwfl said:
LOL on the keystone pics. Me too Matt they look unreal. But, I concluded the camera/angle has provided some distortion.... hopefully.
preston39
Well-known member
=========oldshep":2xq93ult said:
oldshep,
I believe it is safe to say that there are more out there. The tests are so new that it hasn't been taken advantage of yet. We can rest assured the rush is on to find them. What breeder would not want to market those new advantages. The feed lots are watching closely also. With the advent of source id from the animal producer coming online they will be able to trace back to a given herd for results.
Some current high priced bulls may become avalable at regular beef prices.
I undertand the application is across the board with the leading breeds. After all wouldn't the other breeders love to knock Angus out of the top position?
I believe we are watching the beginning of a revolution of sorts in the making.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Shep - I can't verify this for certain, but I heard at the Cattlemen's Boot Camp in Colordo that Bovigen was still functioning okay, but the hurricane did slow them down some. And I am sorry, but I only THINK that they are doing work for other breeds also, but don't hold me to it. Their "Stars" are for Marbling and Tenderness, and it is a great innovation!oldshep":1dawotmv said:
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
E-Gad - you are right. Stupid is as stupid does. I am sorry for the goof!blacksnake":3b5ba19h said:
DOC HARRIS
I was under the understanding that Express had indentified the first 10 star bull. It was a calf bought from Green Gardens Angus. I believe it is called PrimeStar, being a grandson of Gardens Prime Time.
Bovigen has shown, through an independent verification process, that the identified genes do have a significant impact on the traits they are labeled for. While there is still variables in management, etc, these tests indicate the genetic potential for the animal and indicate how likely it is that a copy of the desirable gene will be passed to its offspring. The significance of a current "10 star" bull is that all his offspring will carry at least one copy of each desired gene. If he was mated to a corresponding "10 star" cow, all offspring would be "10 star" animals. You can see, in light of AI and embryo flushing, how breeders are interested in this.
The key is, the fact that he is a 10 star bull, doesn't denote anything about maternal ability of his daughters, growth performance of his calves, or even his own confirmation. A 10 star animal really doesn't have any more likelyhood of being a bull rather than a steer, save the identical copies of 5 desirable genes. I do worry that in the short term the GeneStar program might promote the purchase of some bulls that would have made better steers. But once someone does get that million dollar bull, they are really going to turn around and feature his offspring.
(In fact, I guess banking that there will ever be a "one" is a bit of a gamble. This looks like it has all the makings of the TV and Computer business, where whatever is on the market today is guaranteed to be old news in just a few months. How many genes for how many desirable traits are there to identify?)
The last time I spoke with a rep from Bovigen they were thinking there were 5 to 6 significant genes impacting each marbling and tenderness, the potential for 20-24 "stars." There is no guarantee that a bull that has 10 stars today, will continue to carry the genes as they are identified and verified. It is possible that someone's current 6 star animal could prove out to carry the most copies in the future. While more is better, banking right now that one bull is going to be the "one" in the GeneStar program is nothing more than a gamble, in my opinion. By the time you start to get calves out of him, everything could have completely changed.
And I do think Doc is dead on. When they begin to do this for other traits, even base EPDs off genes, it will really change things. If a bull, for instance, scans well for marbling, knowing his genetics gives you a glimpse at how likely his calves are to follow him genetically. It could be the genes he carries are all single copies, making it unlikely any one calf would carry all his marbling genes. It sure is something to watch all of this take shape, though.
Bovigen has shown, through an independent verification process, that the identified genes do have a significant impact on the traits they are labeled for. While there is still variables in management, etc, these tests indicate the genetic potential for the animal and indicate how likely it is that a copy of the desirable gene will be passed to its offspring. The significance of a current "10 star" bull is that all his offspring will carry at least one copy of each desired gene. If he was mated to a corresponding "10 star" cow, all offspring would be "10 star" animals. You can see, in light of AI and embryo flushing, how breeders are interested in this.
The key is, the fact that he is a 10 star bull, doesn't denote anything about maternal ability of his daughters, growth performance of his calves, or even his own confirmation. A 10 star animal really doesn't have any more likelyhood of being a bull rather than a steer, save the identical copies of 5 desirable genes. I do worry that in the short term the GeneStar program might promote the purchase of some bulls that would have made better steers. But once someone does get that million dollar bull, they are really going to turn around and feature his offspring.
(In fact, I guess banking that there will ever be a "one" is a bit of a gamble. This looks like it has all the makings of the TV and Computer business, where whatever is on the market today is guaranteed to be old news in just a few months. How many genes for how many desirable traits are there to identify?)
The last time I spoke with a rep from Bovigen they were thinking there were 5 to 6 significant genes impacting each marbling and tenderness, the potential for 20-24 "stars." There is no guarantee that a bull that has 10 stars today, will continue to carry the genes as they are identified and verified. It is possible that someone's current 6 star animal could prove out to carry the most copies in the future. While more is better, banking right now that one bull is going to be the "one" in the GeneStar program is nothing more than a gamble, in my opinion. By the time you start to get calves out of him, everything could have completely changed.
And I do think Doc is dead on. When they begin to do this for other traits, even base EPDs off genes, it will really change things. If a bull, for instance, scans well for marbling, knowing his genetics gives you a glimpse at how likely his calves are to follow him genetically. It could be the genes he carries are all single copies, making it unlikely any one calf would carry all his marbling genes. It sure is something to watch all of this take shape, though.
Well I messed up and I want to make a correction. Turns out the PrimeStar bull owned by Express is only an 8 star bull. I want to say he is missing the two new marbling genes, but I could be way off on that also, so I won't. 
I do believe most of these high testing bulls (8-10 stars) carry Gardens Prime Time somewhere in their pedigree. Either a son, grandson, or great-grandson. From what I understand, there are 2 10 star bulls in the Angus breed and a 10 star cow after over 3000 animals tested. I don't think anyone is saying who owns what yet though, with the possible exception of the bull at the beginning of this post.
So far you think the odds would be one in 1000. But when you figure in that breeders aren't testing animals they know don't carry the genes, it shoots up quite a bit higher than that, I would think. Not to say there aren't breeders out there with lines that haven't been tested yet,.but I would think a lot of guys are busy working the lines backward to find where these genes came from way back when.
I do believe most of these high testing bulls (8-10 stars) carry Gardens Prime Time somewhere in their pedigree. Either a son, grandson, or great-grandson. From what I understand, there are 2 10 star bulls in the Angus breed and a 10 star cow after over 3000 animals tested. I don't think anyone is saying who owns what yet though, with the possible exception of the bull at the beginning of this post.So far you think the odds would be one in 1000. But when you figure in that breeders aren't testing animals they know don't carry the genes, it shoots up quite a bit higher than that, I would think. Not to say there aren't breeders out there with lines that haven't been tested yet,.but I would think a lot of guys are busy working the lines backward to find where these genes came from way back when.
again, i dont want to know any individual scores... i just want them to tell me some basic statistical traits that any research company should have on hand. this would benefit them also because it would make their product more meaningful.angus2":1ceaii4i said:
oldshep
Member
Aero, not sure what you are talking about. Standard deviation and all... are you looking for things like ave epd, and various weights during the set ages that are common now? Not sure if those numbers could be possible yet if only one or two 10 stars just now being discovered.
hey was'nt it Preston that posted the site for the one's that had listed by "STARS" I noticed some of the bulls were already deceased. Have any of the old famous bulls been tested yet? Any old semen laying around that might prove to be the next "ONE"
Has anyone checked out the autumn oaks site? What do ya think?
Oldshep
hey was'nt it Preston that posted the site for the one's that had listed by "STARS" I noticed some of the bulls were already deceased. Have any of the old famous bulls been tested yet? Any old semen laying around that might prove to be the next "ONE"
Has anyone checked out the autumn oaks site? What do ya think?
Oldshep
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Shep- I tried to access http://www.Autumnoaksangus.com and had no luck at all.oldshep":w2yjy38j said:
DOC HARRIS
P.S. Well, I just clicked on my own link (above) and got a BEAUTIFUL WEB SITE! Well programmed and very well organized! I am going back to check it out now.
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
I just spent some time at the "Autumn Oaks" site. It is impossible to determine or judge an animal by picture alone, and Super Star 302 is no exception. I would like to see a rear view to get some idea of his thickness and rear leg set. I am not too impressed with his $Values, but of course, he was only 8 months or so old at the time of this picture.
His Dam is a pretty good looking cow - deep and thick-butted - perhaps a little tight in the heart girth. The donors are better than average in Genotype and a solid start for future improvement matings. I would like to see higher scrotal and $Value EPD's on ALL of the animals, Super Star 302 included (admitting he is only 8 mos old). All EPD's are at a level that can be improved upon with future matings and by keeping the replacement heifers.
Over all, I think that the site is well done, and the herd has a good start!
DOC HARRIS
His Dam is a pretty good looking cow - deep and thick-butted - perhaps a little tight in the heart girth. The donors are better than average in Genotype and a solid start for future improvement matings. I would like to see higher scrotal and $Value EPD's on ALL of the animals, Super Star 302 included (admitting he is only 8 mos old). All EPD's are at a level that can be improved upon with future matings and by keeping the replacement heifers.
Over all, I think that the site is well done, and the herd has a good start!
DOC HARRIS
DD RANCH
Well-known member
I think there is too much put on numbers.Effeicent quality cattle will make money every time .
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Looking at just one pic - I thought he looked great. Can't comment on his numbers because I'm not up on the Angus averages.
blacksnake
Well-known member
Looks like Monarch is selling a flush from a 10 star cow. Wonder what kind of price aflush from this cow mated to the 10 star bull would bring. All offspring would then also be 10 star animals.
El_Putzo
Well-known member
I'm a little confused, this Rito N Bar, he was a black Limi right??? :lol: :lol:
stir, stir, stir.
stir, stir, stir.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Boil and Bubble - - -Toil and Trouble! :shock: ;-)El_Putzo":2dw8oeh0 said:
DOC HARRIS
