1 out of 7 Heifers Pregnant

[ddd75]

Wow... thanks everybody. That's a lot of advice.

Trying to keep costs as low as possible so I think selling the bull and renting a proven bull for this season will be my best bet. I've got a guy who's gonna rent me a good bull from a reputable breeder for $250 for 60 days or so. My bull went a little wild on me last night while I was dropping hay and my dog had to run him off so I don't feel nearly as sad about selling him as a slaughter bull anymore...

Breeder jumped on me when I contacted her about him and told me he looked like a skeleton in pictures. Said I should be feeding 10 lbs grain per day. How you pencil that out and stay in the black I don't know. I had seen him attempting to mount cows but never saw him successful. Think maybe he worked himself ragged trying but never got it done.

Bright spot: the bred cow (bred by my vets bull) I mentioned is set to calve any day now and that'll be our first calf on the ground (lord willing).

Again, thank ya'll for the help. It is appreciated. I've struggled to find mentors around here with advice other than"shoulda bought a bull from me..."

i've never fed bulls grain. feeding bulls grain lowers sperm count tremendously.

Why in the world would you want a bull that needed to be fed.. to do what he should naturally do. If you want to raise cattle for low cost, that is the type of bull you want to run from.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Wow... thanks everybody. That's a lot of advice.

Trying to keep costs as low as possible so I think selling the bull and renting a proven bull for this season will be my best bet. I've got a guy who's gonna rent me a good bull from a reputable breeder for $250 for 60 days or so. My bull went a little wild on me last night while I was dropping hay and my dog had to run him off so I don't feel nearly as sad about selling him as a slaughter bull anymore...

Breeder jumped on me when I contacted her about him and told me he looked like a skeleton in pictures. Said I should be feeding 10 lbs grain per day. How you pencil that out and stay in the black I don't know. I had seen him attempting to mount cows but never saw him successful. Think maybe he worked himself ragged trying but never got it done.

Bright spot: the bred cow (bred by my vets bull) I mentioned is set to calve any day now and that'll be our first calf on the ground (lord willing).

Again, thank ya'll for the help. It is appreciated. I've struggled to find mentors around here with advice other than"shoulda bought a bull from me..."

i've never fed bulls grain. feeding bulls grain lowers sperm count tremendously.

Why in the world would you want a bull that needed to be fed.. to do what he should naturally do. If you want to raise cattle for low cost, that is the type of bull you want to run from.

We keep our bulls on a wean ration until pasture. They gain good and don't melt when they go to work. Have never had a problem.

I couldn't imagine monkeying with all that other stuff but I suppose that's why we're just hobby cattlemen. Lol. But they're getting all the good stuff from their ration.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Depends on what grain you are feeding, not all rations are created equally. When our bulls are semen tested, they test high, then our buyers put them to work. I'm not denying that a half starved bull won't get the job done, some can, but a bull that has the nutrition he needs can really kick some ass, that's assuming other factors are in place, genetics, healthy females, etc. I've seen what under conditioned bulls look like in my area and I bet they are lucky if they settle 10 cows. One of my buyers said that he knew the bull he was getting from me would fall apart because he was on grain and he would not be feeding grain, hay only, well he trimmed up a little but not much after working 20 plus cows. Again, I use humans as an example, a half starved kid eating crap for most of his childhood is not suddenly going to turn into a strapping big man in adulthood, or at least that's my opinion. Not trying to be a wise a...s but I've seen my share of the "starve your cattle" people, and many are so fat that they can barely fit in their trucks. If they followed their own advice they would have abs instead of a 46 waist. Like I said not trying to be funny but..... nutrition matters.

 

[ddd75]

Depends on what grain you are feeding, not all rations are created equally. When our bulls are semen tested, they test high, then our buyers put them to work. I'm not denying that a half starved bull won't get the job done, some can, but a bull that has the nutrition he needs can really kick some be nice, that's assuming other factors are in place, genetics, healthy females, etc. I've seen what under conditioned bulls look like in my area and I bet they are lucky if they settle 10 cows. One of my buyers said that he knew the bull he was getting from me would fall apart because he was on grain and he would not be feeding grain, hay only, well he trimmed up a little but not much after working 20 plus cows. Again, I use humans as an example, a half starved kid eating crap for most of his childhood is not suddenly going to turn into a strapping big man in adulthood, or at least that's my opinion. Not trying to be a wise a...s but I've seen my share of the "starve your cattle" people, and many are so fat that they can barely fit in their trucks. If they followed their own advice they would have abs instead of a 46 waist. Like I said not trying to be funny but..... nutrition matters.

I've had mulitple vets tell me my main herd sire is the highest semen count they've ever seen. He's bred 65 hd at one time and he's only ate hay and grass. his condition is outstanding.

like i said.. i've never fed bulls grain. feeding bulls grain lowers sperm count tremendously.

Why in the world would you want a bull that needed to be fed.. to do what he should naturally do. If you want to raise cattle for low cost, that is the type of bull you want to run from.


of course you need to give them good nutrition.. but good hay and pasture is all they need. if you have crap hay and pasture then i'm sure supplementing will do them a world of good.

 

[CattleMan1920]

65 cows serviced by one bull in one season, not spring and fall, but one breeding season? That bull must have been using a day planner to schedule appointments! He would have to be breeding constantly given a three month window, multiple cows per day non stop. I'm not saying he didn't do it, but that is pretty amazing. You should get him to AI stud ASAP!

 

[talltimber]

like i said.. feeding bulls grain lowers sperm count tremendously..


of course you need to give them good nutrition.. but good hay and pasture is all they need. if you have crap hay and pasture then i'm sure supplementing will do them a world of good.

I'm assuming you mean supplementing with something other than grain?

 

[gizmom]

There were also two other cows in with them, a bred mixed breed cow and an open older jersey (who I didn't know much about).

The open older Jersey would make me want to test for Trich, slim chance but I wouldn't want to expose another bull to the herd until I had an answer.

Good luck, it looks to me like your trying to do this the right way. You have a vet involved did your vet mention testing for trich?


Gizmom

 

[ddd75]

65 cows serviced by one bull in one season, not spring and fall, but one breeding season? That bull must have been using a day planner to schedule appointments! He would have to be breeding constantly given a three month window, multiple cows per day non stop. I'm not saying he didn't do it, but that is pretty amazing. You should get him to AI stud ASAP!

if he was registered I would. I've sold a few sons from him to commercial outfits. I wouldn't of made him hit that many cows but the other fancy expensive bull I bought to help him out ended up breeding 1.

 

[ddd75]

like i said.. feeding bulls grain lowers sperm count tremendously..


of course you need to give them good nutrition.. but good hay and pasture is all they need. if you have crap hay and pasture then i'm sure supplementing will do them a world of good.

I'm assuming you mean supplementing with something other than grain?

poor the grain to them I don't give a s!hT what you people do

 

[talltimber]

Do you have a link to the study/research? I have not been able to find it with a brief search. I am trying to understand what you are saying? To supplement with higher quality hay instead of grain? Is it a problem with grain when calves are overconditioned, or are you saying giving 10 lbs of grain a day prior to breeding season to a 5 yr old bull is causing a tremendous sperm count drop?

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

It's the starch that could cause sperm count drops. Corn is heavy in starch. I supplement with soybean hulls and distiller grain.

 

[Son of Butch]

Technically fat accumulation is what lowers sperm count not corn or grains ect.
Corn = Energy
Energy = Calories
Excessive calories/energy = body fat accumulation.

We can all look at a bull's Body Condition and judge if he's too fat.
What we don't see is a bull that has accumulated body fat has also created fat deposits in his scrotum.
It is the size and number of excessive fat cells in the scrotum that lowers his ability to produce sperm and thus
his sperm count.

When too fat a bull will always have a lower sperm count than when he's healthy and fit.
Which is why you don't want your bull over conditioned. An obese bull is not as healthy as he should be.
Unfortunately if a young bull gets roly poly fat going through puberty to maturity, scrotum fat can damage his sperm
production for life. That is why it is important to grow and develop young bulls properly.
You want them to be like a young growing athlete not a young couch potato.

 

[dhayes105]

There were also two other cows in with them, a bred mixed breed cow and an open older jersey (who I didn't know much about).

The open older Jersey would make me want to test for Trich, slim chance but I wouldn't want to expose another bull to the herd until I had an answer.

Good luck, it looks to me like your trying to do this the right way. You have a vet involved did your vet mention testing for trich?


Gizmom

Vet didn't mention it. I need to call him on Monday and see if he even does trich tests.

 

[Caustic Burno]

There were also two other cows in with them, a bred mixed breed cow and an open older jersey (who I didn't know much about).

The open older Jersey would make me want to test for Trich, slim chance but I wouldn't want to expose another bull to the herd until I had an answer.

Good luck, it looks to me like your trying to do this the right way. You have a vet involved did your vet mention testing for trich?


Gizmom

Vet didn't mention it. I need to call him on Monday and see if he even does trich tests.

Cows clean up from trich infection the bull is the carrier, once infected he is for life.

https://www.drovers.com/article/trichomoniasis-cattle

 

[gizmom]

CB

Your right cows clean up if bull gets Trich he is done. The OP stated the open older Jersey not knowing where all the cattle came from I would sure test for Trich. Cows will get pregnant when infected with Trich but it causes early fetal abortion. So you end up with opens.

Gizmom

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB

Your right cows clean up if bull gets Trich he is done. The OP stated the open older Jersey not knowing where all the cattle came from I would sure test for Trich. Cows will get pregnant when infected with Trich but it causes early fetal abortion. So you end up with opens.

Gizmom

If his bull is hot my money is COD caused by lepto.

"Cystic Ovaries. Cystic ovarian disease in cows is usually seen in the first two months post calving. Ovarian cysts are characterised as structures greater than 2.5 cm (approximately 1 inch) in diameter remaining on an ovary for more than 10 days."

 

[dhayes105]

Update: biopryn lab came back with 6/6 open. I called my vet as soon as we got the results. I said I wanted to bring the bull in to test for trich and anything else he could think of before I take him to the sale (first sale of the year here is usually pretty good...)

He wanted me to bring my whole herd in to be tested for trich (I only have a head catch at the moment.) I suggested I bring the bull and two heifers to start with because I don't have access to a trailer that could haul 10 head. From my research it seems standard to just check the bull.

I don't think it's trich but he will test blood as well and probably palpate the heifers while we are there so may as well. Main reason i don't think it is trich is the two red heifers were in with the bull for a while before I bought the jersey and then they were on separate farms for a while and they didn't get bred. I'd think a 15 month old bull in a pasture with two 15 month old heifers for about two months would get a minimum of one of them unless something was wrong. And one of those heifers was palpated and confirmed to be cycling.

 

[gizmom]

Keep us posted on what vet thinks.

Gizmom

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Hello... First post. First year with trying to get cows bred.

I bought 6 lim/red angus cross heifers and one baldie heifer as long yearlings about a year ago (in march). I also bought a pb/reg virgin angus bull as a 16 month old in May from a small seedstock producer. There were also two other cows in with them, a bred mixed breed cow and an open older jersey (who I didn't know much about).

I turned the bull out with the biggest of the heifers in late May. Then moved the two heifers and the bull in with the other cows in July. 2 months later I had my vet preg check the two that had been exposed in May. Both came up open. I was concerned so I had bull tested. Results were "good" (he didn't give me numbers and I didn't know to ask) but it was not my usual vet and we were made to wait over an hour in 100F temps (Bull in trailer) and the testing was stressful (vet missed the bull with hyrdraulic squeeze three times and had to recycle.) This did not instill a lot of confidence in the results in my opinion.

In October I preg checked all the heifers and the jersey with the Biopryn blood tests (mail in.) Only one heifer was pregnant. All cows are in very good condition on good fescue pasture, high mag mineral, and 20% range cube as a supplement at 3 lbs/head/day.

I pulled the bull 30 days ago because he had lost condition rapidly and put him on grain to fatten back up. I talked to an extension agent who said the stress of the testing could have caused low sperm counts. I am preg. checking again to ensure he didn't get anybody before I pull him tomorrow. (Biopryn again)

I want to turn a bull back out in January. My inclination is to sell the bull I have for slaughter (which hurts because he wasn't cheap and he's docile and easy to deal with) and rent a bull. I have already lined up that option.

My question is: is there any point in having the bull checked again or am I grasping at straws. There's no way theres something wrong with 6 out of 7 heifers, right?

This is a hobby for me, obviously with only 12 cows total, but I am trying to do things right and learn as much as I can.

Thank you for any advice or ideas.

Just curious- did you ever watch the bull to see if he is actually mounting and breeding? Some bulls have a instinct to get the job done and some need to learn. He is a virgin bull so I would say get a bulling heifer or a bulling steer and throw him in with the bull and one heifer that is in moderate condition who was having regular cycles.

Also, you are using 2 different technique for pregnancy detection. Minimum 28 days post-breeding is what Biopryn is recommending. I usually pull blood 30+ days after pulling the bull. Most vets cannot detect before 60 days bred so I would say draw blood again and borrow a good steer to help teach the virgin what to do.

It took our virgin bull (last year) 60 days of trying on his own (yes sometimes he "bred" the wrong end) before he figured it out.

We have another virgin bull for this year again but luckily we have a bulling steer in with him that is showing him how to do it!

Don't sell him until you retest and make sure that you know he isn't the problem if he was so costly. Teaching virgin bulls is a process and if you are able to keep him then he will have it down by next time.

Also, do not move the cows/heifers. Not even to a different pasture. They are highly susceptible to sloughing the calf if you move them before 30-40 days bred.

Good Luck!

 

[ddd75]

what in the world is going on here?