1 out of 7 Heifers Pregnant

[dhayes105]

Hello... First post. First year with trying to get cows bred.

I bought 6 lim/red angus cross heifers and one baldie heifer as long yearlings about a year ago (in march). I also bought a pb/reg virgin angus bull as a 16 month old in May from a small seedstock producer. There were also two other cows in with them, a bred mixed breed cow and an open older jersey (who I didn't know much about).

I turned the bull out with the biggest of the heifers in late May. Then moved the two heifers and the bull in with the other cows in July. 2 months later I had my vet preg check the two that had been exposed in May. Both came up open. I was concerned so I had bull tested. Results were "good" (he didn't give me numbers and I didn't know to ask) but it was not my usual vet and we were made to wait over an hour in 100F temps (Bull in trailer) and the testing was stressful (vet missed the bull with hyrdraulic squeeze three times and had to recycle.) This did not instill a lot of confidence in the results in my opinion.

In October I preg checked all the heifers and the jersey with the Biopryn blood tests (mail in.) Only one heifer was pregnant. All cows are in very good condition on good fescue pasture, high mag mineral, and 20% range cube as a supplement at 3 lbs/head/day.

I pulled the bull 30 days ago because he had lost condition rapidly and put him on grain to fatten back up. I talked to an extension agent who said the stress of the testing could have caused low sperm counts. I am preg. checking again to ensure he didn't get anybody before I pull him tomorrow. (Biopryn again)

I want to turn a bull back out in January. My inclination is to sell the bull I have for slaughter (which hurts because he wasn't cheap and he's docile and easy to deal with) and rent a bull. I have already lined up that option.

My question is: is there any point in having the bull checked again or am I grasping at straws. There's no way theres something wrong with 6 out of 7 heifers, right?

This is a hobby for me, obviously with only 12 cows total, but I am trying to do things right and learn as much as I can.

Thank you for any advice or ideas.

 

[Son of Butch]

Semen test can't measure libido. No matter how fertile, if he's a dead head that won't mount he's not of much use.
Sell him.
He passed semen test before... if you test him again and he passes... would you trust him to do the job?

 

[CattleMan1920]

We sell Registered Angus bulls and I would recommend this strategy. I may get trolled for the advice, but all of our customers are very satisfied with the results they are getting from their bulls and their females are getting settled quickly. Bring your bull in and give him a shot of Multimin 90 (buy it online or at vet's office) then if you can get hold of Southern States 14 X Stress feed, put him on it, our bulls are eating 10-15 pounds a day per bull along with high-quality alfalfa/orchard grass hay. We use Gro Tec Ag Land Fescue 7 minerals, along with a tub of Purina Accuration. We semen test all of our bulls before they leave our ranch and they test very high (I have the proof from the Vet). Next do the same for your heifers, except for the high amount of grain, I give them far less grain, but they get everything else mentioned above. We AI all of our heifers, but they are settling on the first or second try. This all may seem like a lot of effort, but it pales in comparison to not getting everyone bred and doing it quickly. I firmly believe that the crazy weather that we have had, at least in KY is affecting fertility and that the animals are stressed, therefore I try to do everything in my power to reduce that stress and the results speak for themselves. Here is a photo of a bull that we recently sold and according to the new owner, nearly his entire group of females were settled in two cycles. I think he had 20-30 cows. The bull in the photo is 16 months old.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Did you buy him from a reputable breeder with a breed guarantee?

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

Get rid of the bull. He's already cost you dearly. And, you say he's lost weight rapidly. But-if he isn't breeding how do you explain the weight loss? He's got some problems.
Not sure what's happening but your story is the third I've recently heard of breeding issues for 2018. Neighbor used a rented bull that broke his wienie. He has 18 open cows. Another guy told me the bull he used bred one cow. His story is very similar to yours. One bred, all the rest open. It's the stuff nightmares are made of.
Sorry for your opens.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

We sell Registered Angus bulls and I would recommend this strategy. I may get trolled for the advice, but all of our customers are very satisfied with the results they are getting from their bulls and their females are getting settled quickly. Bring your bull in and give him a shot of Multimin 90 (buy it online or at vet's office) then if you can get hold of Southern States 14 X Stress feed, put him on it, our bulls are eating 10-15 pounds a day per bull along with high-quality alfalfa/orchard grass hay. We use Gro Tec Ag Land Fescue 7 minerals, along with a tub of Purina Accuration. We semen test all of our bulls before they leave our ranch and they test very high (I have the proof from the Vet). Next do the same for your heifers, except for the high amount of grain, I give them far less grain, but they get everything else mentioned above. We AI all of our heifers, but they are settling on the first or second try. This all may seem like a lot of effort, but it pales in comparison to not getting everyone bred and doing it quickly. I firmly believe that the crazy weather that we have had, at least in KY is affecting fertility and that the animals are stressed, therefore I try to do everything in my power to reduce that stress and the results speak for themselves. Here is a photo of a bull that we recently sold and according to the new owner, nearly his entire group of females were settled in two cycles. I think he had 20-30 cows. The bull in the photo is 16 months old.

Good post. Welcome to the forum.

 

[TCRanch]

Get rid of the bull. He's already cost you dearly. And, you say he's lost weight rapidly. But-if he isn't breeding how do you explain the weight loss? He's got some problems.
Not sure what's happening but your story is the third I've recently heard of breeding issues for 2018. Neighbor used a rented bull that broke his wienie. He has 18 open cows. Another guy told me the bull he used bred one cow. His story is very similar to yours. One bred, all the rest open. It's the stuff nightmares are made of.
Sorry for your opens.

Bingo!

 

[wbvs58]

Did the two other cows get pregnant?

Ken

 

[CattleMan1920]

I offered my suggestion based on you trying to salvage your bull, but I have to agree with others on here that your bull has cost you. Where did you purchase the bull? Also will the seller replace the bull or give you a credit towards a new one? I've heard a lot of people in my neck of the woods say that the bull doesn't matter, and they are fine with what they can pick up at the local stockyards, but trying to save money on a bull isn't a long term strategy for staying in the cattle business. I routinely have people that will call me and say "I don't want to spend much, just need an old bull that can get the job done" unfortunately, that "old bull that can get the job done" is NO BARGAIN!! He is almost certainly not DNA tested for all known recessives, nor has he had proper nutrition. It comes down to luck if he settles your herd. Even if he does settle them you may have problems with the calves. I can go on and on, but you really should know what you are buying, and as someone else said earlier, a semen test is not the only thing that should determine a bull's worth, it's merely one of the many things you should be looking at when choosing a sire.

 

[Son of Butch]

Hello... First post. First year with trying to get cows bred.

I bought 6 lim/red angus cross heifers and one baldie heifer as long yearlings... (in march).
I also bought a pb/reg virgin angus bull 16 months old in May.
also two other cows a bred mixed breed cow and an open older jersey

I turned the bull out with the 2 biggest heifers in late May. (May 28th)
Then 44 days later (July 11) moved the two heifers and the bull in with the other cows in July.
2 months later (Sept 17) my vet preg check the two that had been exposed in May. Both came up open.
I was concerned so I had bull tested. Results were "good" (he didn't give me numbers and I didn't know to ask)

In October (Oct 22) I preg checked all the heifers and the jersey with the Biopryn blood tests (mail in.)
Only one heifer was pregnant.
All cows are in very good condition on good fescue pasture, high mag mineral, and 20% range cube as a supplement

I pulled the bull 30 days ago (Nov 12) because he had lost condition rapidly and put him on grain to fatten back up.
I am preg. checking again (Oct 22 - Nov 12 is 21 days) to ensure he didn't get anybody before I pull him tomorrow. (Biopryn again)
There is still a slim hope that all 6 and the Jersey are all pg... good luck.

I want to turn a bull back out in January. My inclination is to sell the bull I have for slaughter
(which hurts because he wasn't cheap and he's docile and easy to deal with) and rent a bull.
I have already lined up that option.

My question is: is there any point in having the bull checked again or am I grasping at straws.
There's no way there's something wrong with 6 out of 7 heifers, right?
Right, as your Vet arm checked 2 open and if ovaries were not cycling normally he would've mentioned it.
Branded's advice of giving all a shot of Multi-Min just in case, sort of as insurance, is a good idea.

This is a hobby for me, obviously with only 12 cows total, but I am trying to do things right and learn as much as I can.
Thank you for any advice or ideas.

Seems your instincts are good and you're doing things right... just had some hard luck...
it comes with the territory. Chin up and I look forward to better news in future postings. :tiphat: sob

 

[Nesikep]

Did you ever see your bull with the cows, more importantly, getting the job done?
If the cows/heifers are butterballs and overfat that can affect their fertility as well.

I'd definitely have lost faith in that bull and would be shopping for a new one.

I routinely have people that will call me and say "I don't want to spend much, just need an old bull that can get the job done" unfortunately, that "old bull that can get the job done" is NO BARGAIN!! He is almost certainly not DNA tested for all known recessives, nor has he had proper nutrition. It comes down to luck if he settles your herd. Even if he does settle them you may have problems with the calves.

I've had more bad luck with over fed bulls than underfed ones.. One of our Shorthorns (Was a grand champion bull) was dumb as bricks when it came to knowing which end of the cow he should look at and mount. My homeraised bulls, while they don't have much for commercial value have been far better breeders.. My current one I bought back from a friend and he's really on the ball through breeding season, 4 cows can be in heat at once and he takes care of them all rather than obsessing for 3 days on a single cow.. Never seen grain in his life, I don't raise them to be intensively used their first year so I'm not setting any records on YW. He's 6 years old now IIRC
Running to one cow of interest, then walking back to another cow
[youtube]https://youtu.be/XpuD6h8-pU8[/youtube]

Welcome to CT Branded!

 

[True Grit Farms]

We sell Registered Angus bulls and I would recommend this strategy. I may get trolled for the advice, but all of our customers are very satisfied with the results they are getting from their bulls and their females are getting settled quickly. Bring your bull in and give him a shot of Multimin 90 (buy it online or at vet's office) then if you can get hold of Southern States 14 X Stress feed, put him on it, our bulls are eating 10-15 pounds a day per bull along with high-quality alfalfa/orchard grass hay. We use Gro Tec Ag Land Fescue 7 minerals, along with a tub of Purina Accuration. We semen test all of our bulls before they leave our ranch and they test very high (I have the proof from the Vet). Next do the same for your heifers, except for the high amount of grain, I give them far less grain, but they get everything else mentioned above. We AI all of our heifers, but they are settling on the first or second try. This all may seem like a lot of effort, but it pales in comparison to not getting everyone bred and doing it quickly. I firmly believe that the crazy weather that we have had, at least in KY is affecting fertility and that the animals are stressed, therefore I try to do everything in my power to reduce that stress and the results speak for themselves. Here is a photo of a bull that we recently sold and according to the new owner, nearly his entire group of females were settled in two cycles. I think he had 20-30 cows. The bull in the photo is 16 months old.

DNA, genetics and sound breeding decisions make better bulls than a feed bucket. IMO

 

[ddd75]

my bulls don't need anything to get anything bred... if they do. they are for someone else... not me.

 

[dhayes105]

Wow... thanks everybody. That's a lot of advice.

Trying to keep costs as low as possible so I think selling the bull and renting a proven bull for this season will be my best bet. I've got a guy who's gonna rent me a good bull from a reputable breeder for $250 for 60 days or so. My bull went a little wild on me last night while I was dropping hay and my dog had to run him off so I don't feel nearly as sad about selling him as a slaughter bull anymore...

Breeder jumped on me when I contacted her about him and told me he looked like a skeleton in pictures. Said I should be feeding 10 lbs grain per day. How you pencil that out and stay in the black I don't know. I had seen him attempting to mount cows but never saw him successful. Think maybe he worked himself ragged trying but never got it done.

Bright spot: the bred cow (bred by my vets bull) I mentioned is set to calve any day now and that'll be our first calf on the ground (lord willing).

Again, thank ya'll for the help. It is appreciated. I've struggled to find mentors around here with advice other than"shoulda bought a bull from me..."

 

[farmerjan]

One suggestion, after you get rid of this bull and get the rented one and just get them pregnant. Look around and see if you can find a breeder that stresses that his bulls are "grass genetics".. In other words, they don't NEED grain to get the job done. If the breeder lady who sold you the bull said he should be getting 10 lbs of grain a day, he is not the kind of bull you want. So many bulls are so grain fed that they "melt" after you get them home. NOT everyone, and many on here really do seem to understand and promote that their bulls will WORK, and not be like a popsicle and melt....

We buy bulls primarily from 2 different breeders that stress that their bulls are not crep fed as calves on their mommas. If the cow can't raise a GOOD calf on grass, then there is a problem. As you mentioned, you can't pencil in alot of daily grain feeding and stay in the even or black category.
Sure once they are weaned they have to have some supplemental feed to continue to grow. But butterballs, won't get the job done and most all of us that use bulls cannot and will not be in a position to go out and feed grain everyday just to keep up condition. If you like this bull you are going to rent, maybe for a few years you should just rent a bull. For as small a herd as you have starting out, a bull is a big expense for little return. He ought to do his job in 60 days, then you have alot of money tied up in his 10 month vacation time. If you are not set up to do AI, then renting a decent proven bull would be money ahead for you in the next few years.
It does seem like you are really trying to do it right.

One thing, can you go and put in your post the general location where you are. Sometimes it helps to know what type of weather conditions you are dealing with too. Plus, there might be a member near to you that you could get some advice/mentoring/help from.

The only other thing is the fescue that might have caused a problem. It's fine for fall stockpiled pasture, but it is not conducive to breeding animals. It can contribute to non-cycling and aborted fetuses.
What is the vaccination program you have? We vaccinate very little compared to some, but do LEPTO religiously. One thing we have here is a real problem with Lepto which can cause abortion, usually in earlier term, so they may be settling and losing it. The vet should be able to tell you the condition of the ovary, if she is cycling, which side is the active one. If they have immature repro tracts, at this age, it could be the heifers.....

 

[farmerjan]

One other thing, have the vet pull a blood sample on the bull and test for Johnes. We bought a bull from a reputable breeder. Put him with some cows 6 months later, he was seemingly doing his job. He started to lose weight. Half the cows came up open, all were bred early when he first went in, so he started out fine. Vet pulled blood, and he tested off the chart for Johnes. This herd has no previous record of it, and we had not problems with cows getting thin, scouring etc. This particular vet said he has seen a few cases that they seem to "get it from nowhere" and it just pops up. Could have been an exposure from the environment... but they are supposed to get it as a calf.... and it usually is dormant for a couple of years and then it will become "active".
We tested cows for a couple years after that, never have seen it since. Have no idea where or why.... another vet told us that was impossible.... but we have the paperwork to prove it and have not lost a cow to "mysterious" circumstances with scoury manure or anything like that. This fall has been tough and just lost a 3 1/2 yr old 1st cf heifer with a 5 month calf on her, but I think it might have been pnuemonia from the crazy weather, she definitely did not have loose manure and this was a different farm we rent and it has been 7 years since that bull has been gone.
Just a thought, don't wish that on you.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Without going through the whole thread have the cows been vaccinated for lepto?

 

[Son of Butch]

For just a dozen commercial cows, if all goes well with the fellow who rents bulls, that very well could be your best
option in the long run too.

 

[dhayes105]

Sure. I am located in Upstate South Carolina.

I am actually doing second round of Lepto/Vibro vaccine (they didn't get this last year before I got them) + 7 way and tri 10 boosters tonight while I have them in the catch to pull blood for the preg checks.

Would it be best to have the bull tested for Trich/Lepto/Etc. Very very minimal risk of exposure as all the cows were virgin except the Jersey but the last thing I want to do is spread it to another bull.

I agree about the rental. I have a young son and wife that are around my cows and its one less thing to worry about 10 months out of the year. We might try AI as well but I have a lot of research to do on that but my wife is attending an AI tech school at Clemson next fall. Only thing I don't like about renting a bull is I like being as independent as possible.

Thanks all.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Sure. I am located in Upstate South Carolina.

I am actually doing second round of Lepto/Vibro vaccine (they didn't get this last year before I got them) + 7 way and tri 10 boosters tonight while I have them in the catch to pull blood for the preg checks.

Would it be best to have the bull tested for Trich/Lepto/Etc. Very very minimal risk of exposure as all the cows were virgin except the Jersey but the last thing I want to do is spread it to another bull.

I agree about the rental. I have a young son and wife that are around my cows and its one less thing to worry about 10 months out of the year. We might try AI as well but I have a lot of research to do on that but my wife is attending an AI tech school at Clemson next fall. Only thing I don't like about renting a bull is I like being as independent as possible.

Thanks all.

If you have hogs in the area you have lepto exposure.