Working cattle questions

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

And unless the buyer specifically ask the seller if the calf is knife cut or banded, they will not know...The calf is cut, period...

I don't believe this for one bit! Even the kids can tell a knife cut calf from a banded calf. Each year, at our first carcass weigh in, the kids look at all the calves individually. They score, grade, and evaluate. EACH kid is asked if the calf was knife cut or banded. Each kid gets it right EACH TIME. Why? Because the knife cut calves have a sac still, the banded calves are clean. If a kid can tell, any one knowing what they are looking at should be able to tell. On the last weigh in (which happens to be in two weeks for this year's carcass calves), again they are asked to look. Again you can tell, because the knife cut calves have a big cod, and the banded calves have a little fat pocket.

 

[cowgirl8]

Well when the calves can be examined closely I wouldn't argue there is a vague hint. But in the seller ring buyers can't tell. This has been discussed. I questioned buyers and they all laughed and said no. The calf is cut period.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Ray Charles can tell the difference between a knife cut calf and a banded calf.

 

[cowgirl8]

Back in the early days of our ranch, we knife cut. Husband would catch calf and throw it, i'd grab the back legs. Father in law did the cutting. I've watched thousands cut. The way he did it, he'd grab the scrotum and cut a good portion of it off at the base. Usually a testicle would fall out and he'd have to fish for the second. Not always had to fish, but this is how he did it. At least once a year, he'd not be able to get the second so the calf was left with one. We castrated them young back then since it was just the 3 of us working. Since they were young, the opening healed and shrunk before the second could drop...So banding isnt the only time you can leave one. At least with banding, you can not do it when you cant get 2. With cutting, its cut, done, cant go back. Once the calf is down and stretched out, everything is drawn back into their body cavity so, palpating them doesnt always work to test to see if you can get both before you cut. You can usually fish them both out, but not always. When you have over 100 to do, palpating for 2 just isnt done...Was never a problem with the one we left in the groups...
And with the way he cut, the cut sight looked exactly like a banded calf at selling time, nothing dangled down, it puckered up and you're left with a fatty bulge . This is the only way i've seen them cut in the years i've been in the cattle business by us or anyone.

 

[Rafter S]

Back in the early days of our ranch, we knife cut. Husband would catch calf and throw it, i'd grab the back legs. Father in law did the cutting. I've watched thousands cut. The way he did it, he'd grab the scrotum and cut a good portion of it off at the base....This is the only way i've seen them cut in the years i've been in the cattle business by us or anyone.

It hasn't been thousands, but the guy that cuts mine does it with the calf standing up, a helper holding its tail up over its back, and him squatting down behind it.

 

[cowgirl8]

Back in the early days of our ranch, we knife cut. Husband would catch calf and throw it, i'd grab the back legs. Father in law did the cutting. I've watched thousands cut. The way he did it, he'd grab the scrotum and cut a good portion of it off at the base....This is the only way i've seen them cut in the years i've been in the cattle business by us or anyone.

It hasn't been thousands, but the guy that cuts mine does it with the calf standing up, a helper holding its tail up over its back, and him squatting down behind it.

I meant, the scrotum is cut at base, nuts pulled out.. We now put them in chutes and band while standing... I think some have mentioned that they make long vertical slits and pull out the testicle leaving the scrotum. If you do not remove half the scrotum, then i'd guess you'd have a cod....otherwise you have exactly what a banded calf has, a fatty blob...

 

[JMJ Farms]

Back in the early days of our ranch, we knife cut. Husband would catch calf and throw it, i'd grab the back legs. Father in law did the cutting. I've watched thousands cut. The way he did it, he'd grab the scrotum and cut a good portion of it off at the base....This is the only way i've seen them cut in the years i've been in the cattle business by us or anyone.

It hasn't been thousands, but the guy that cuts mine does it with the calf standing up, a helper holding its tail up over its back, and him squatting down behind it.

I meant, the scrotum is cut at base, nuts pulled out.. We now put them in chutes and band while standing... I think some have mentioned that they make long vertical slits and pull out the testicle leaving the scrotum. If you do not remove half the scrotum, then i'd guess you'd have a cod....otherwise you have exactly what a banded calf has, a fatty blob...

You WOULDNT have a cod but you WOULD have a cod sack :lol2:

 

[cowgirl8]

You WOULDNT have a cod but you WOULD have a cod sack :lol2:

I repeated what Fire Sweep Ranch said...
Again you can tell, because the knife cut calves have a big cod, and the banded calves have a little fat pocket.
So not only do theirs have a cod, they have a big one...lol

 

[DLD]

Once bought a show steer that had been banded. He was a March calf, we got him around the first of December. By February we started suspecting he might still have one, but couldn't feel it standing up. When we laid him on the hoof trimming table we could though. Took him to a vet I know that kind of specializes in surgeries - he took out not one, but both testicles.

The calf came from a good friend who runs 300-400 cows and has sold lots of show steers for many years. Turns out he had been sick and his son and a hired hand had worked that group. Neither of them had ever banded calves before, and whoever got this one got nothing but sack. He did offer our money back but the calf recovered well and went on to have a nice show career, including making the premium sale at the Tulsa State Fair, which is not easy to do.

Oh and, it's not as noticeable on lighter/thinner cattle, but if you look close enough, you can pretty much always tell the difference in cut and banded calves. If you cut off all (or even most) of the sack, they're going to have a much longer/tougher time healing, so there's usually enough sack left that you can tell. I'm sometimes amazed to see calves come through the sale ring with bands on 'em - if you don't have time to let 'em heal up, just leave them alone. They'll sell better as bulls than they will like that.

 

[cowgirl8]

When cut castrating, there will be a certain amount of the scrotum that will need to be cut off or you'll have to cut again so the testicle will come out. Try to cut very little off, you're going to have membrane that will then need cutting. The remainder of the scrotum will then shrivel upwards and become a blob of fat, just like what happens on a banded calf.
Some of the banded calves we had last year refused to drop their dry nuts. It was pretty annoying. When sorting for sale, I sat in the alleyway watching them come though, if i saw a shriveled pair i yelled, Dangler! and he was held back for next sale...we had a few that just refused....
If there is less between the legs of the steer, the buyer has less to worry about anything being left in there. So if you are leaving a lot of scrotum, you may be giving the buyer questions and losing money....If there is any difference is some cut calves, its going to be technique..... and again a cut calf is a cut calf..

 

[dieselbeef]

so if you have a calf that doesn't get both nuts banded you take em to a vet for surgery..surely you are joking..load em and sell it ..this is got to be one of the most ridiculous things ive read on here in a long time..yall must make a lot more money than me selling calfs.
where we sell as long as it walks in and walks out it sells

 

[bball]

If you can get a finger under it, that helps. I've done it many times. Get one in the chute acting a fool, i've had the band come off the forks before i was ready or have a reluctant nut jump back up. I had a set of band forks that got damaged while we were working the cows. No time to get a new set. One of the spines bend and the band kept coming off....just rolled those suckers off. Remember, they were rolled off with just one nut, not two, but i did take one off with 2 once when we decided we wanted to keep a bull...... And i even have gimpy girl hands..

Cowgirl8,
You must have some very small fingers, cause there is no way I could get one of my fingers in there after letting the bander go. I have a small pocket knife with a small gut hook at the tip that I slip between the green rubber and scrot. Cuts the band real quick the few times I have had to fix my inability to keep 2 in the chamber. I would be all day trying to wedge a finger in there and probably never get it done. BTW, not disputing that you do it, just saying I don't believe I could-will try when it happens though.

 

[cowgirl8]

so if you have a calf that doesn't get both nuts banded you take em to a vet for surgery..surely you are joking..load em and sell it ..this is got to be one of the most ridiculous things ive read on here in a long time..yall must make a lot more money than me selling calfs.
where we sell as long as it walks in and walks out it sells

I believe the posters calf was a show steer. If they wanted to show and could not get the testicle down, then a vet would have to do it..

 

[cowgirl8]

If you can get a finger under it, that helps. I've done it many times. Get one in the chute acting a fool, i've had the band come off the forks before i was ready or have a reluctant nut jump back up. I had a set of band forks that got damaged while we were working the cows. No time to get a new set. One of the spines bend and the band kept coming off....just rolled those suckers off. Remember, they were rolled off with just one nut, not two, but i did take one off with 2 once when we decided we wanted to keep a bull...... And i even have gimpy girl hands..

Cowgirl8,
You must have some very small fingers, cause there is no way I could get one of my fingers in there after letting the bander go. I have a small pocket knife with a small gut hook at the tip that I slip between the green rubber and scrot. Cuts the band real quick the few times I have had to fix my inability to keep 2 in the chamber. I would be all day trying to wedge a finger in there and probably never get it done. BTW, not disputing that you do it, just saying I don't believe I could-will try when it happens though.

''
I remember the first one that let loose with one testicle, i was like Cr@p!... Before anyone could see my mistake, i had it off.. I was like, hum that was not hard at all, doesnt make sense. The purpose of these bands is to slowly tighten, if removed quickly, its not hard at all. Remember only one testicle would be in it...Give it a try next time you castrate..

 

[True Grit Farms]

I still want to see a video myself. I've banded and cut a calf or two and prefer to cut myself. First you pinch the bottom of the scrotum between your thumb and index finger. Next cut right above your thumb and index finger, being careful not to cut your thumb or index finger. Then the really tricky part, squeeze a nut out of the scrotum and chafe the cord between your thumb and index finger by stroking the cord back and fourth. The next line of business is to wrap the cord around your index finger and pull down till the cord stretches and snaps. One down and one to go. Just repeat the above except don't cut the bottom of the scrotum. Believe it or not this can all be accomplished in less time than it takes to put a cheerio band on the banding tool.
Right wrong or different, we give each steer well he may still be a bull depending on the help situation, a shot of Covexin 8 with tetanus or Calvary 9. And just for good measure a shot of penicillin and sometimes even a shot of

 

[cowgirl8]

I still want to see a video myself. I've banded and cut a calf or two and prefer to cut myself. First you pinch the bottom of the scrotum between your thumb and index finger. Next cut right above your thumb and index finger, being careful not to cut your thumb or index finger. Then the really tricky part, squeeze a nut out of the scrotum and chafe the cord between your thumb and index finger by stroking the cord back and fourth. The next line of business is to wrap the cord around your index finger and pull down till the cord stretches and snaps. One down and one to go. Just repeat the above except don't cut the bottom of the scrotum. Believe it or not this can all be accomplished in less time than it takes to put a cheerio band on the banding tool.
Right wrong or different, we give each steer well he may still be a bull depending on the help situation, a shot of Covexin 8 with tetanus or Calvary 9. And just for good measure a shot of penicillin and sometimes even a shot of

Not if i'm doing it. I dont even have to look...do while husband gives shots.

 

[1wlimo]

I have cut and band, like banding way more, and I am faster at it. So generally band as soon as the calf is dry and has sucked, so in the first 24 hrs, and I sit the calf on it's but like a sheep about to be sheered. Gravity helps me and the position calms the calf and cow, and leaves me mostly upright so I can deal with the cow if she decides to be unfriendly.

 

[DLD]

so if you have a calf that doesn't get both nuts banded you take em to a vet for surgery..surely you are joking..load em and sell it ..this is got to be one of the most ridiculous things ive read on here in a long time..yall must make a lot more money than me selling calfs.
where we sell as long as it walks in and walks out it sells

I believe the posters calf was a show steer. If they wanted to show and could not get the testicle down, then a vet would have to do it..

Thanks cowgirl8.

It was no joke. Try reading the entire post - it was a show steer. And the surgery wasn't anything dramatic - he did it with the calf standing in the chute, went through what was left of the sack, just took a few minutes, cost $65 if I remember right. I probably could have done it myself when we had him on the hoof trimming table, but preferred to be cautious. This one was well worth the relatively small cost and effort of getting it done right. If it had just been a stocker calf we'd probably never even have known, much less bothered to fix it.

 

[dieselbeef]

i got ya now ...sometimes I just think a lot of stuff is over the top.

 

[Dave]

so if you have a calf that doesn't get both nuts banded you take em to a vet for surgery..surely you are joking..load em and sell it ..this is got to be one of the most ridiculous things ive read on here in a long time..yall must make a lot more money than me selling calfs.
where we sell as long as it walks in and walks out it sells

I believe the posters calf was a show steer. If they wanted to show and could not get the testicle down, then a vet would have to do it..

Thanks cowgirl8.

It was no joke. Try reading the entire post - it was a show steer. And the surgery wasn't anything dramatic - he did it with the calf standing in the chute, went through what was left of the sack, just took a few minutes, cost $65 if I remember right. I probably could have done it myself when we had him on the hoof trimming table, but preferred to be cautious. This one was well worth the relatively small cost and effort of getting it done right. If it had just been a stocker calf we'd probably never even have known, much less bothered to fix it.

It is still $65. I have cut lots of those kind of calves. Those one nut stockers that show up at a feedlot still got to get cut and they aren't paying a vet to do it. It isn't much harder than cutting on to start with. Just make the cut up to the side above the scar tissue from the band. Other than the location of the cut the rest is just like a normal castration. The critter is bigger but that is what they make squeeze chutes for.