Wolves will be wolves

[puzzled in oregon]

California needs grizzlies really bad. Most Californians don't realize that the Golden Bear on the state flag
was a Grizzly Bear, they think the Golden Bear was a golfer.

 

[gcreekrch]

That is sort of close:oops:

Time stands still. Been there 3 times between 30 and 50 feet. They aren’t here to talk about it.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

So the point goes right over your head...

I've had people I consider neighbors several states away.

No I got your point.

Unfortunately that isn't typically the way things work. Now a days people tend to stick to themselves and don't go on a limb for others expecially when federal prision time is involved.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Used to work with a guy who spent a couple summers doing day work in Montana. He said for some reason those collared wolves always seemed to end up on the railroad tracks. Pretty hard to determine what they died from after the train hit them.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

That happened around here until they abandoned the last RR tracks about 15 years ago.

If your going to make them dissappear, you don't go on a public forum talking about it..........

 

[Dave]

That happened around here until they abandoned the last RR tracks about 15 years ago.

If your going to make them dissappear, you don't go on a public forum talking about it..........

Yep, the shovel part may not apply but the shut up is serious. Don't even tell the wife.

If the wolf died in the back 40 and they tracked the blood trail back to his house he did several things wrong. Don't shoot from your house. Don't shoot with a cannon which will kill them that quick or leave a blood trail. FMJ are preferred. Zip through without a big exit hole. Be sure to hit them well back missing anything which might kill it quickly. I realize it is an issue in your neighborhood but snow can be a problem. The wolf leaves tracks and so do you. Look for collars before you shoot as that can causes issues. In the absence of RR a busy freeway with lots of truck traffic during the night will work.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

No freeway within 200 miles of here.

Winter is a no no unless in the middle of a blizzard...

You are very correct about the shut up part. I wouldnt open my lips even on my death bed...

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

And the living body is a weird thing I've seen a gut shot deer run 5 miles before dieing, I've also seen them go 500 feet lay down and die. Hard to predict.

 

[Travlr]

No I got your point.

Unfortunately that isn't typically the way things work. Now a days people tend to stick to themselves and don't go on a limb for others expecially when federal prision time is involved.

Enough people start losing livestock/income and they might decide to work as a team. We do it in round-ups and working cattle, and there's plenty of history where the government has poked the sleeping bear and ranchers have worked to rearrange thinking.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Maybe once upon a time. Now "neighbors" go to the township meetings to complain about their neighbors broke down cars or what color someone else painted their front door.

This area is mostly state/fed/Timo forest land. If all the "local" cattle guys grouped together their would be 6 guys. Ha

How it works in one area isn't how it works everywhere...

 

[CowboyRam]

Enough people start losing livestock/income and they might decide to work as a team. We do it in round-ups and working cattle, and there's plenty of history where the government has poked the sleeping bear and ranchers have worked to rearrange thinking.

The problem is that the 1% feed the other 99%. It will never happen until the wolves start feeding on the suburbanites and city dwellers little cute Fifi.

 

[Dave]

Maybe once upon a time. Now "neighbors" go to the township meetings to complain about their neighbors broke down cars or what color someone else painted their front door.

This area is mostly state/fed/Timo forest land. If all the "local" cattle guys grouped together their would be 6 guys. Ha

How it works in one area isn't how it works everywhere...

I had that many cattlemen in my field the day the wolves killed 2 calves here. Live more remote in the west and people living 50 miles away are considered your neighbor.

 

[Travlr]

The problem is that the 1% feed the other 99%. It will never happen until the wolves start feeding on the suburbanites and city dwellers little cute Fifi.

If the DNR has 200 guys show up claiming to have shot every collared wolf they find at least they won't be throwing everyone in jail... including the guy that did the deed.

Ya know... I actually liked the idea of rehabiting wolves when it was just in Yellowstone. But I always knew there would be problems, too. It's not like wild animals respect fences or human boundaries. And now, because there have been some beneficial effects in the big park these guys have gotten way too enthusiastic tolerating wolves in livestock country. Wolves have territories and when they stick to the park they are less of a problem, but it's not going to work having packs where their entire territory is a bunch of cattle ranches. The DNR has opposing priorities to livestock raising... and they seem to think their priorities are more important than those of people trying to make a living.

 

[J Hoy]

So long as it is in YOUR ecosystem, community, yard... Otherwise, they can go down in history as a past problem.
What needs to be done are maps of all urban areas of the US showing past problem animals or wildlife that are not there now. Then make a federal plan to restore all of those species to the urban areas because they belong there. It is "their land". Once the buffalo roam in the streets and the wolves eat a few kids, the reality of the foolishness of forcing such problems on rural areas will be apparent to those who can smugly sit at home and feel great about forcing misery on others.

If you look up how many calves that die soon after they are born in Montana from Weak Calf Syndrome, you will see that it is 3 calves per 100 cows. That is well over 25 thousand calves a year. Weak Calf Syndrome, caused by the fetal calf being exposed to some kind of toxin was first described here in Western Montana by a veterinarian who was a friend. I talked to him about Weak Calf Syndrome several times. Weak Calf Syndrome can be caused by the cow eating a toxic plant or by eating plants or drinking water that contains pesticides which are toxins. There are no toxic plants still remaining in the fields and pastures where the cows are kept during the winter. Those plants were killed by pesticides many years ago. So now that just leaves the pesticides that are on the hay and grain and in the water to cause the calf deaths. Wolves in Montana kill less than 300 total cattle. So it would appear that the misery forced on any chemically sensitive cattle, wildlife or people is caused by other people. Do those people sit at home and feel great about forcing such misery on all of us who are chemically sensitive and all of those poor calves (not to mention all the wildlife) that die soon after they are born because of exposure to the pesticides those people use? I doubt it. They likely don't even think about all the lives they are affecting when they spray their pesticides.

 

[daneg]

On large pastures especially with forest /brush it is impossible to find every wolf kill if you get lucky the birds will help you find a kill. My experience is 1 in 4 or 5 calf kills are found. This summer the wolf pressure is minimal because last winter one of the big outfits put my neighbour on the payroll to trap/snare them he is pretty good at it and ended up with 24 caught.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I had that many cattlemen in my field the day the wolves killed 2 calves here. Live more remote in the west and people living 50 miles away are considered your neighbor.

2 calves get killed by wolves here and most likely the only one that will show up is the one who discovered them. The DNR and Fish and Wildlife will tell you to take pictures for your payout and maybe preserve the scene if they have someone who will stop by. But most likely nobody else will show up.

Wolves mortality signal goes off on their collar and ever DNR, USFS, Fish and Wildlife, State Police, and local sheriff will come out of the woodwork and suddenly become expert forensic experts.

Guessing 90% of your "neighbors" in 50 miles are involved in agriculture.

99.5% of people within 50 miles of here are NOT involved in agriculture.

 

[Ebenezer]

If you look up how many calves that die soon after they are born in Montana from Weak Calf Syndrome, you will see that it is 3 calves per 100 cows. That is well over 25 thousand calves a year. Weak Calf Syndrome, caused by the fetal calf being exposed to some kind of toxin was first described here in Western Montana by a veterinarian who was a friend. I talked to him about Weak Calf Syndrome several times. Weak Calf Syndrome can be caused by the cow eating a toxic plant or by eating plants or drinking water that contains pesticides which are toxins. There are no toxic plants still remaining in the fields and pastures where the cows are kept during the winter. Those plants were killed by pesticides many years ago. So now that just leaves the pesticides that are on the hay and grain and in the water to cause the calf deaths. Wolves in Montana kill less than 300 total cattle. So it would appear that the misery forced on any chemically sensitive cattle, wildlife or people is caused by other people. Do those people sit at home and feel great about forcing such misery on all of us who are chemically sensitive and all of those poor calves (not to mention all the wildlife) that die soon after they are born because of exposure to the pesticides those people use? I doubt it. They likely don't even think about all the lives they are affecting when they spray their pesticides.

What is the source of your data? How do you know that the pesticides are the problem? Is that documented or assumed?

 

[puzzled in oregon]

I'm searching
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...yndrome//RK=2/RS=j6Xvv1SeU5O7dU3W3e8TZfZrFv8-

 

[gcreekrch]

I'm searching
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...yndrome//RK=2/RS=j6Xvv1SeU5O7dU3W3e8TZfZrFv8-

They must have deleted the paragraph about using herbicides.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

This is a very long article. But, I had not realized they had put tracking collars on cows to monitor the interaction between cattle and wolves.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...9142.pdf/RK=2/RS=FbQWN2m6uvrRzshQNE09eyMpKUI-


So it seems to me that with all of todays modern technology, it would be very simple to attach an explosive device to said wolves tracking collar, and a device capable of detonating this device could be affixed to each tracking collar attached to said cow(s). This would allow said cows to detonate the explosive device (example 1/2 lb. tannerite) attached to said wolfs tracking collar, should said wolf get within a yet to be determined said range of said cow(s). This would definitely give a wolf a heads up as to the safe zone when approaching cows.