Wildlife depredation/ federal agencies and my frustration

[Oneye]

Riiiight! :roll:
Spoken like a true socialist and deep seated big govt liberal.
Obama would be proud of ya, as will be Bernie.

(Is it working--you finding any of that "common ground" you so desperately seek?)

Trust me I was on your side a while back. I watched Fox News, I still listen to Glenn Beck every day. I don't agree with some of what he says but I agree with a lot of his conscious decisions. I began to dig deeper into these issues and became more educated on them. I don't blindly follow right wing or left wing media who both have an agenda of their own. Do I believe government should be involved in all parts of life? No. Do I believe as the richest country in the world we can take care of our environment and lands as well as our economy and well being of our citizens? Absolutely. America is better than the America we are today.

 

[Oneye]

If my math is right that's one employee for 24,500 acres. I'm in land management and that's a pretty light work load if you ask me. That's interesting.

Not all 10,000 employees are land managers.

 

[Oneye]

Things which make the BLM so popular in the areas they work in..... how about when the locals put together a petition to remove a BLM manager and that petition is in a local store. An armed BLM security agent shows up at the store and threaten the store owner about the petition. Last I knew the constitution guaranteed the rights to petition the government about a grievance. Or recently with the Hammond case someone from a BLM computer on BLM time wrote comments to the website of a regional Ag newspaper about the case claiming to be a former BLM employee. The person who they claimed to be came forward to say they never wrote the comments. The BLM won't give up the person who did this or tell if anything was done about it. The whole Hammond case in itself is an absolute miscarriage of justice.
Do you not find it strange that 20 years ago nobody and I do mean nobody at the BLM and Forest Service felt it necessary to have armed guards but they do now. And it is because of how they have treated people. They have been systematically shutting down the economy in many western towns.

I've watched landowners threaten DWR officers as well as FS and BLM officers who did not approach them in a hostile way. One rancher pulled out a shotgun and say it on his hood in front of a DWR officer. When the county sheriff who knew the guy well got there he told him to put the gun away and that the DWR officer had every right when he pulled the gun to shoot him dead on the spot.The officer was calm and collected and continued in the following weeks to try and work with this difficult individual. The pattern of disrespect goes both ways. Look at how police officers are treated in our country and by the media now. Yes they need to be armed but NO they shouldn't abuse their power. Also the shutting down western economy thing is not true in any way. It's someone to blame when small towns and tiny industries can't keep up with what has turned into a global economy. It's a flawed way to look at things at best, and it is no way proven that the BLM has **** down any economies.

 

[bball]

I understand both sides--I just don't agree with the govt's side and won't kiss their butts just to pretend to.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here? Kiss their butt how? Giving them credit for doing the job they are supposed to be doing (multiple use)? Land management can improve but it's going to take better funding for better management.

Always the gov't s answer..give us more funding, give us more control, and time after time it is proven totally ineffective. Beard hit it right when he summed up the gov't alphabet agencies..symbiosis is not their goal...parasitic self promotion.

 

[ram]

Screw the BLM and the rest of the government that works for the EPA. The government employees have forgotten who they work for, and we let them is the worst part. I think we need to cut the BLM funding and give the land back to the states to manage as they see fit.

 

[TexasBred]

Our national defense budget is $610 billion, that should put things into perspective as to how much as an agency managing million of acres of land is given. And yes they return $4 for every $1 they are given to spend. They are some of the hardest working dollars in the federal budget and account for less than 1% of our nations budget. Public land grazing causing an administrative loss of over $40 million a year......... why do tax payers have to pay for private individuals businesses they profit from? My point is since when is any government program that effective in returning revenue? Sportsmen contribute $646 billion to the economy every year and yet conservation and improvements of the places that cause all that revenue are given less than 1% of our nations budget. Does it seem wise to spend less than 1% of our budget on such an effective industry and money making agency? The BLM employ's over 10,000 people and manages over 245 million surface area of land. With such a relatively small budget in our nation they do a decent job. Much of that money gets spent on fighting wildfires. By having to spend more than half their annual budget on just wildfires it further backlogs projects they want to complete to improve the lands they manage. Yes our parks and federal land management agencies are not given the tools they need to succeed by congress and our representatives. Congress needs to treat wildfires as the national disasters they are and fund them appropriately. It should not be borrowed from the FS and BLM's annual budgets that are already strained to fight what is a natural disaster.

How big is the ocean??? How big is the sky?? That's putting shyt in perspective.

 

[TexasBred]

Our national defense budget is $610 billion, that should put things into perspective as to how much as an agency managing million of acres of land is given. And yes they return $4 for every $1 they are given to spend. They are some of the hardest working dollars in the federal budget and account for less than 1% of our nations budget. Public land grazing causing an administrative loss of over $40 million a year......... why do tax payers have to pay for private individuals businesses they profit from? My point is since when is any government program that effective in returning revenue? Sportsmen contribute $646 billion to the economy every year and yet conservation and improvements of the places that cause all that revenue are given less than 1% of our nations budget. Does it seem wise to spend less than 1% of our budget on such an effective industry and money making agency? The BLM employ's over 10,000 people and manages over 245 million surface area of land. With such a relatively small budget in our nation they do a decent job. Much of that money gets spent on fighting wildfires. By having to spend more than half their annual budget on just wildfires it further backlogs projects they want to complete to improve the lands they manage. Yes our parks and federal land management agencies are not given the tools they need to succeed by congress and our representatives. Congress needs to treat wildfires as the national disasters they are and fund them appropriately. It should not be borrowed from the FS and BLM's annual budgets that are already strained to fight what is a natural disaster.

Don't tell me.....BLM just eliminated your job and you're pi$$ed. Get outta here.

 

[Jogeephus]

If my math is right that's one employee for 24,500 acres. I'm in land management and that's a pretty light work load if you ask me. That's interesting.

Not all 10,000 employees are land managers.

What are they doing working in land management if they are not land managers?

 

[Dave]

Our national defense budget is $610 billion, that should put things into perspective as to how much as an agency managing million of acres of land is given. And yes they return $4 for every $1 they are given to spend. They are some of the hardest working dollars in the federal budget and account for less than 1% of our nations budget. Public land grazing causing an administrative loss of over $40 million a year......... why do tax payers have to pay for private individuals businesses they profit from? My point is since when is any government program that effective in returning revenue? Sportsmen contribute $646 billion to the economy every year and yet conservation and improvements of the places that cause all that revenue are given less than 1% of our nations budget. Does it seem wise to spend less than 1% of our budget on such an effective industry and money making agency? The BLM employ's over 10,000 people and manages over 245 million surface area of land. With such a relatively small budget in our nation they do a decent job. Much of that money gets spent on fighting wildfires. By having to spend more than half their annual budget on just wildfires it further backlogs projects they want to complete to improve the lands they manage. Yes our parks and federal land management agencies are not given the tools they need to succeed by congress and our representatives. Congress needs to treat wildfires as the national disasters they are and fund them appropriately. It should not be borrowed from the FS and BLM's annual budgets that are already strained to fight what is a natural disaster.

It might help if the BLM and the Forest Circus attacked fires like they were actually wanting to put them out rather than use them as an employment opportunity. There was a fire in Southeastern Oregon about 3 years ago. The rancher and his crew almost had the fire under control. A BLM crew came in and instead of jumping in and fighting the fire they took time to set up their camp and just hang out. They didn't have a fire boss with them until the next day. So instead of a fire burning a couple hundred acres it burnt 600,000.

 

[Oneye]

Screw the BLM and the rest of the government that works for the EPA. The government employees have forgotten who they work for, and we let them is the worst part. I think we need to cut the BLM funding and give the land back to the states to manage as they see fit.

Yes screw the regulatory system in the United States that tries to ensure you have clean water to drink, safe food on your table, a decent environment, and regulations so companies can't just do whatever they want. Nestles CEO once was on record of saying clean drinking water is not a right to citizens of this country. Clean water should be privatized and sold to those who can afford it. Good thing that terrible EPA stands in front of giant companies from poisoning your water supply or taking it away so only the wealthy can afford it. The EPA can be a bit overbearing in some instances but the original intentions of the EPA are good ones. As for giving the states the land don't use the word BACK because the states never owned the land. The states would be nothing short of a disaster, could not afford all this land, and would have to sell most of it to afford management costs. You want to see a train wreck hand it over to greedy state officials.

 

[Oneye]

If my math is right that's one employee for 24,500 acres. I'm in land management and that's a pretty light work load if you ask me. That's interesting.

Not all 10,000 employees are land managers.

What are they doing working in land management if they are not land managers?

Theirs plenty of BLM offices that have employees working at them, some are strictly law enforcement, there are different employees for different things.

 

[M-5]

Screw the BLM and the rest of the government that works for the EPA. The government employees have forgotten who they work for, and we let them is the worst part. I think we need to cut the BLM funding and give the land back to the states to manage as they see fit.

Yes screw the regulatory system in the United States that tries to ensure you have clean water to drink, safe food on your table, a decent environment, and regulations so companies can't just do whatever they want. Nestles CEO once was on record of saying clean drinking water is not a right to citizens of this country. Clean water should be privatized and sold to those who can afford it. Good thing that terrible EPA stands in front of giant companies from poisoning your water supply or taking it away so only the wealthy can afford it. The EPA can be a bit overbearing in some instances but the original intentions of the EPA are good ones. As for giving the states the land don't use the word BACK because the states never owned the land. The states would be nothing short of a disaster, could not afford all this land, and would have to sell most of it to afford management costs. You want to see a train wreck hand it over to greedy state officials.

Yes the government has such a great track record of management. You must be a government employee or attached to the governments tit.

 

[Oneye]

Our national defense budget is $610 billion, that should put things into perspective as to how much as an agency managing million of acres of land is given. And yes they return $4 for every $1 they are given to spend. They are some of the hardest working dollars in the federal budget and account for less than 1% of our nations budget. Public land grazing causing an administrative loss of over $40 million a year......... why do tax payers have to pay for private individuals businesses they profit from? My point is since when is any government program that effective in returning revenue? Sportsmen contribute $646 billion to the economy every year and yet conservation and improvements of the places that cause all that revenue are given less than 1% of our nations budget. Does it seem wise to spend less than 1% of our budget on such an effective industry and money making agency? The BLM employ's over 10,000 people and manages over 245 million surface area of land. With such a relatively small budget in our nation they do a decent job. Much of that money gets spent on fighting wildfires. By having to spend more than half their annual budget on just wildfires it further backlogs projects they want to complete to improve the lands they manage. Yes our parks and federal land management agencies are not given the tools they need to succeed by congress and our representatives. Congress needs to treat wildfires as the national disasters they are and fund them appropriately. It should not be borrowed from the FS and BLM's annual budgets that are already strained to fight what is a natural disaster.

It might help if the BLM and the Forest Circus attacked fires like they were actually wanting to put them out rather than use them as an employment opportunity. There was a fire in Southeastern Oregon about 3 years ago. The rancher and his crew almost had the fire under control. A BLM crew came in and instead of jumping in and fighting the fire they took time to set up their camp and just hang out. They didn't have a fire boss with them until the next day. So instead of a fire burning a couple hundred acres it burnt 600,000.

Because that's the same mistake we made for decades. Not allowing these fires to burn is what has gotten us to this point. Obviously they get out of hand and far outreach what they should sometimes, but putting out a fire too soon is not wise for the future either. It's almost the only way they can accomplish burns at times without threats of lawsuits from environmental groups of the fire is natural.

 

[Oneye]

Screw the BLM and the rest of the government that works for the EPA. The government employees have forgotten who they work for, and we let them is the worst part. I think we need to cut the BLM funding and give the land back to the states to manage as they see fit.

Yes screw the regulatory system in the United States that tries to ensure you have clean water to drink, safe food on your table, a decent environment, and regulations so companies can't just do whatever they want. Nestles CEO once was on record of saying clean drinking water is not a right to citizens of this country. Clean water should be privatized and sold to those who can afford it. Good thing that terrible EPA stands in front of giant companies from poisoning your water supply or taking it away so only the wealthy can afford it. The EPA can be a bit overbearing in some instances but the original intentions of the EPA are good ones. As for giving the states the land don't use the word BACK because the states never owned the land. The states would be nothing short of a disaster, could not afford all this land, and would have to sell most of it to afford management costs. You want to see a train wreck hand it over to greedy state officials.

Yes the government has such a great track record of management. You must be a government employee or attached to the governments tit.

Not a government employee, and what exactly is a state GOVERNMENT.

 

[1wlimo]

Oneye yes it is wrong to injure any animal.

The rest you say is rubbish. The BLM have upset ranchers, and environmentalist's that would normally be on opposite sides of many battles.

The forest were made and maintained by grazing. The removal of cattle that replaced the bison is a disaster. This leads to increased heat on fires and larger fires.

The loss of cattle grazing decreases the wildlife habitat, and reduces other species.

How is it that the BLM and forestry service use government money, to degradate the environment??

 

[Bigfoot]

Why the dull axe? Never heard anybody praising .gov before, that wasn't either along for a free ride, or employed by them. The rest of us try to keep Uncle Sam out of our business.

 

[Oneye]

Oneye yes it is wrong to injure any animal.

The rest you say is rubbish. The BLM have upset ranchers, and environmentalist's that would normally be on opposite sides of many battles.

The forest were made and maintained by grazing. The removal of cattle that replaced the bison is a disaster. This leads to increased heat on fires and larger fires.

The loss of cattle grazing decreases the wildlife habitat, and reduces other species.

How is it that the BLM and forestry service use government money, to degradate the environment??

I don't know why don't you tell me how they do that?

Also I am not for removing the cattle from public land, I just want to see them pay adequate grazing fees which they currently are not and it is coming at the expense of the taxpayers dime while they profit.

Grazing is a healthy part to land management. Cattle can be and are more destructive than deer or elk though.

All I am saying is that the BLM has different groups from every direction including political on state and federal levels pushing and pulling on them constantly. They do a decent job managing the land with the hand they are given and the money they're given to do it with. If you don't believe so I dare you to go do their job. I have never been locked out of any BLM land. I can go out on millions of acres of it right now. Can I go drive my vehicle wherever I want? No. Can I go release my cattle on it and not pay? No. Can I just go dump trash on it? No. But those kind of laws are what help protect landscape for future generations. Are their devastating wildfires? Just because the BLM isn't doing what you see fit does not mean they are purposely destroying places with an agenda or trying to put you out of business. They have to manage for "multiple use" and you are only one use that the lands they manage have. I appreciate federal public lands a lot, they are a great part of our nation, I use them weekly. We should be striving for better management and working to improve these agencies not fighting with local officials and threatening the employees of these agencies.

 

[Oneye]

Why the dull axe? Never heard anybody praising .gov before, that wasn't either along for a free ride, or employed by them. The rest of us try to keep Uncle Sam out of our business.

I work 14-16 hours a day and am not employed by the government and receive 0 government money. I also raise a small herd of cattle and don't expect a handout from the state government for wildlife eating on my property all the public owns. If I set a candy bowl out I can't expect the kids to not take some of it. If there's alfalfa, I can't expect wildlife not to reach out and grab some of it, I plan for it.

I praise the BLM and FS because I know they have to deal with individuals like those on this forum. They deal with environmentalists. They have to deal with mining and oil and gas companies. They deal with paperwork, policies, and procedures constantly. They deal with a**holes from every direction and never get a thanks for what they do because each side didn't get it the whole way they wanted it. They have politicians bashing them to further their own agenda. It's being caught between a rock and a hard place and it amazes me people can't see that it is a very tough job to accomplish. They are local people, many of whom I know that get constant criticism in meeting from individuals who simply ignore or don't want to understand the position they are in. I've talked to them, they have no agenda against anyone in their planning, they simply have to take a balanced approach and try to work with so many groups to figure or a management plan that is economically and environmentally sound. If you believe you are so smart and could do a better job go work for these agencies... Many of you claim to know more than they do. Guess what once you enter the circus they are in and see threats of lawsuits and constant criticism daily you won't be so quick to judge the employees that work for these two fine agencies. They are not without flaw for sure but I won't let uneducated, uniformed individuals bash people who have a very tough job that they know nothing about yet have everything to say about. It disgusts me the way the employees are treated by individuals who have been brought up to believe the stupidity their parents taught them.

 

[M-5]

Boy, you forgot a few insults in your rant. I didn't see where anyone was singling out the people that work for these agency's .

 

[Oneye]

Boy, you forgot a few insults in your rant. I didn't see where anyone was singling out the people that work for these agency's .

I'm ranting about what I've seen. The individuals that wear the BLM or Forest Service logo on their shirts I have seen treated fairly poorly, simply because they work for the BLM or FS. Personally I wouldn't want their job. It's too much drama and has to many people with such differing views that want everything their way. Like I said if anyone bashing these agencies is so smart, 4 years of school should be a breeze and fixing the problems should be just as easy.... So get to it.