Wildlife depredation/ federal agencies and my frustration

[Jogeephus]

Not all 10,000 employees are land managers.

What are they doing working in land management if they are not land managers?

Theirs plenty of BLM offices that have employees working at them, some are strictly law enforcement, there are different employees for different things.

Yeah, I've seen the law enforcement guys on the news pointing guns at unarmed ranchers and concerned taxpayers. Outstanding employees they have there.

I guess I'm an old fart but I haven't forgotten why the BLM was formed. It was a consolidation of the Land office and Grazing Service. Since then, as you correctly pointed out, it is no longer doing the job it was chartered. Typical camel's nose under the tent. I dread to think of what our western lands will be like once the rest of the stinking animal gets in the tent.

The sad thing is unless you take a long hard honest look at yourself in the mirror you will never see yourself as others see you and the BLM needs to do some serious time in front of the mirror.

 

[M-5]

Boy, you forgot a few insults in your rant. I didn't see where anyone was singling out the people that work for these agency's .

I'm ranting about what I've seen. The individuals that wear the BLM or Forest Service logo on their shirts I have seen treated fairly poorly, simply because they work for the BLM or FS. Personally I wouldn't want their job. It's too much drama and has to many people with such differing views that want everything their way. Like I said if anyone bashing these agencies is so smart, 4 years of school should be a breeze and fixing the problems should be just as easy.... So get to it.

They also have a choice to do something else also. I can't work for the government cause I have morals and a conscious and common sense. They don't want people that can fix problems they just want minions to do what they are told.

 

[greybeard]

I thought the left was all about saving the environment..
They do know, that tissues are made out of wood byproducts--right?--from trees?

 

[1wlimo]

I thought the left was all about saving the environment..
They do know, that tissues are made out of wood byproducts--right?--from trees?

Not sure that this follows any party lines, the are a lot of left thinking people and groups that are anti BLM

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Is this "oneye" guy for real?? Seriously???? :roll:

This line of thinking is dangerous.

I'm not asking "who is John Galt?".....I am now asking WHERE is John Galt??

 

[Workinonit Farm]

They are not without flaw for sure but I won't let uneducated, uniformed individuals bash people who have a very tough job that they know nothing about yet have everything to say about. It disgusts me the way the employees are treated by individuals who have been brought up to believe the stupidity their parents taught them.

By any chance is your name Linda?

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I don't know about where you are, but Forestry Service folks, where I am, are pretty decent people and most folks that I know (including myself) like them and get along pretty well with them.

Find another pot to stir somewhere else.

Buh-Bye :wave:

 

[fenceman]

: I would like to know everyone's opinions on the 2 subjects of public land and wildlife depredation. I'm open to hearing your argument and just want to discuss the issue with those on the other side of the issue.[/quote]

I have no problem with requiring someone to pay a fair market lease price to graze public lands.
On wildlife depredation, well at some point I believe a landowner has the right to defend his investment. I for the most part tolerate wildlife using my resources. I enjoy it. I'm a lifelong hunter and fisherman and I manage my land for wildlife as well as my cattle . with that being said when the wildlife begins to be a real problem, I'm going to manage it on my personal property as I see fit. I'm not going to ask for anyones permission. If the state cares so much about their deer, they can keep them out of my garden. Any edible(to me) animal that is managed you can bet gets used. Others Will be left for the buzzards. Pigs are shot on sight, no exceptions. :2cents:

 

[Oneye]

: I would like to know everyone's opinions on the 2 subjects of public land and wildlife depredation. I'm open to hearing your argument and just want to discuss the issue with those on the other side of the issue.

I have no problem with requiring someone to pay a fair market lease price to graze public lands.
On wildlife depredation, well at some point I believe a landowner has the right to defend his investment. I for the most part tolerate wildlife using my resources. I enjoy it. I'm a lifelong hunter and fisherman and I manage my land for wildlife as well as my cattle . with that being said when the wildlife begins to be a real problem, I'm going to manage it on my personal property as I see fit. I'm not going to ask for anyones permission. If the state cares so much about their deer, they can keep them out of my garden. Any edible(to me) animal that is managed you can bet gets used. Others Will be left for the buzzards. Pigs are shot on sight, no exceptions. :2cents:[/quote]
I'm fully agree that depredation needs to be taken care of if it is a constant thing and is being very detrimental to someone's livelihood. It sounds like you are good to wildlife. The situation I am speaking of is probably 15-20 deer that have come down to winter off the mountain and there is a hay field near there winter range.at this point the alfalfa is not growing and harvesting season is over. The deer are utilizing the little bit of alfalfa that is left that was too low to the ground to cut and the deer will be back on their way up the mountain before growing season begins again. Idk how it works in Texas as far as the landowners rights but in my state the DWR has 72 hours to respond after a complaint and come up with a hazing, mitigation, or other solution that they'll work with the landowner on to help them. If they do not give the DWR 72 hours to respond it is essentially poaching and they will be charged as such. Utah offers anterless tags to landowners to harvest does that are constantly on their property(or elk/pronghorn). They offer buck tags for landowners who own property with important wildlife habitat, which in Utah you don't get a buck deer tag every year so it is definetly an advantage. They have a CWMU program where they've the landowner tags for each species to sale or keep and provided they allow public access to their land for a few hunters to hunt those species as well. So IMO landowners in my state are pretty fairly compensated, they also do plenty more than I listed above. I just have a real problem when these animals come down to winter just as they have for 100 years and someone put a hayfield where their winter range was and expect them not to be there.

 

[ram]

Fenceman, I don't believe there should be depredation permits issued on BLM lands. But look at the wild horse feisco. And the reintroduced wolves have ate more game than the farmers with depredation permits have killed. As a land owner, I feel that the game that I raise, protect, and feed belong to me. The same goes for the fish in my lake.

 

[fenceman]

Fenceman, I don't believe there should be depredation permits issued on BLM lands. But look at the wild horse feisco. And the reintroduced wolves have ate more game than the farmers with depredation permits have killed. As a land owner, I feel that the game that I raise, protect, and feed belong to me. The same goes for the fish in my lake.

Sounds like what I said. :?:

 

[ga.prime]

As an outsider looking in, I'd hazard to guess nobody knows what anyone else is saying and quotes are fubar.

 

[Craig Miller]

Just curious as someone looking in from outside...As far as I know there are no blm lands anywhere near me. Possibly not even in the state. The forest service does and excellent job here. My question is how much are people paying to graze these lands? You keep saying the ranchers arent paying enough but so far have not seen where youve told how much they pay. Land lease prices are different everywhere. I would guess that what I could lease for here you would say is a very low price. I agree that a person should not be paid for wildlife eating their crops. It should be part of their expenses. If I plant rye and oats for winter grazing im not gonna get reimbursed for what the deer and rabbits eat. I doubt If any of the corn farmers or bean farmers get it. I dont know that for fact though and would be interested to hear from someone who knows. As for officers carrying weapons theres no way I would do the job with out one and I doubt you would either.

 

[Dave]

Just curious as someone looking in from outside...As far as I know there are no blm lands anywhere near me. Possibly not even in the state. The forest service does and excellent job here. My question is how much are people paying to graze these lands? You keep saying the ranchers arent paying enough but so far have not seen where youve told how much they pay. Land lease prices are different everywhere. I would guess that what I could lease for here you would say is a very low price. I agree that a person should not be paid for wildlife eating their crops. It should be part of their expenses. If I plant rye and oats for winter grazing im not gonna get reimbursed for what the deer and rabbits eat. I doubt If any of the corn farmers or bean farmers get it. I dont know that for fact though and would be interested to hear from someone who knows. As for officers carrying weapons theres no way I would do the job with out one and I doubt you would either.

If you look at the actual dollars paid to the BLM it ain't much. I forget what it is but on the outside it looks cheap. But there have been studies of total cost to the rancher to graze BLM and it actually works out higher than private graze leases. This is mainly do to the huge area that the ranchers have to deal with. Mile after mile of fence. Maintaining watering facilities. Gathering 300 head off of 30,000+ acres takes a lot of time and expense. Just putting out salt and minerals is a time consuming task because of the distance.

 

[Oneye]

The price they pay is $1.69 per head a month. That is after a $.30 raise in 2015. The BLMs revenue from grazing in 2014 was $12.1 million, it cost the BLM $32.8 million to administer the grazing. Combined with the Forest Service revenue from grazing was $18.5 million in 2014, adminstrative costs exceeded $40 million. That means tax payers are paying $20 million a year for those who graze on public lands. In 2014 the BLM spent $89.2 million on range improvements as well on these public lands that are being grazed. These prices need to be raised to break out of the $20 million dollar loss endured by these agencies. Public land grazing should at least pay for Itself and not leave a shortfall. Let alone $89.2 million in improvements they didn't pay for on the land they are grazing.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Sounds like billions of good reasons to shut the agency down.

 

[Oneye]

Sounds like billions of good reasons to shut the agency down.

I mean yeah considering overall they bring in $4 to every $1 they spend even with that shortfall right? So a government agency that brings in over $5 billion and is given less than $2 billion to spend just isn't working is it? Why don't you tell me a state or federal agency that does just as good of job?

 

[M-5]

Just like anything else the government manages. They could not operate a lemonade stand with out operating in the red.

 

[SJB]

The price they pay is $1.69 per head a month. That is after a $.30 raise in 2015. The BLMs revenue from grazing in 2014 was $12.1 million, it cost the BLM $32.8 million to administer the grazing. Combined with the Forest Service revenue from grazing was $18.5 million in 2014, adminstrative costs exceeded $40 million. That means tax payers are paying $20 million a year for those who graze on public lands. In 2014 the BLM spent $89.2 million on range improvements as well on these public lands that are being grazed. These prices need to be raised to break out of the $20 million dollar loss endured by these agencies. Public land grazing should at least pay for Itself and not leave a shortfall. Let alone $89.2 million in improvements they didn't pay for on the land they are grazing.

The reason so many people are against federal agencies is because of this. I have no idea what is involved. But what I do know is that the federal government cannot possibly manage ANYTHING efficiently. I do no believe our government was designed to have all these agencies administering these huge budgets. When there is no incentive for things being run better, things will not be run better.

Schools, VA, SS, Medicare, the list goes on. This isn't a shot at BLM, it's just a fact of life, and is the main reason behind people wanting control turned over to the states. The states wouldn't be perfect either, but in at lease some cases they could do a better job financially. TN has a balanced budget by state constitution mandate. The federal government does not even have a budget, and if they did it wouldn't be balanced.

 

[Oneye]

Just like anything else the government manages. They could not operate a lemonade stand with out operating in the red.

Right so how do you explain that they overall have revenue of $5 billion a year? They are actually making money overall, just not for grazing.