Who else deals with water belly

[gcreekrch]

Had to put one down today. Minerals are supposed to be right, free access to good water. We shouldn't even try to winter a steer here. Non occurrence in the summer.

 

[wbvs58]

So what are the symptoms Dave? I assume it must be ascites in the abdomin, congestive heart failure, individually could be hardware. Further west of me there is an area that has a problem with Pimolea poisoning of cattle in certain seasons when conditions favour it to grow, it is basically a congestive heart failure.

Oops!!

www.stgeorgevet.com.au

Ken

 

[Lucky_P]

Ken, here in USA, that term usually refers to uroabdomen or subcutaneous accumulation of urine from ruptured bladder or ruptured urethra subsequent to urethral obstruction by uroliths. Most common in feedlot steers on a grain-based ration. With some, depending upon where the obstruction is, and if the bladder isn't ruptured, and if you catch them early enough, you can salvage them by doing a perineal urethrostomy.

Never had one of my own; only saw a handful while in practice - a few in young calves, which I presumed to be due to silicate stone obstructions, and one in a mature ChiAngus bull, which was probably due to a struvite(calcium ammonium phosphate) stone.

Some years back, I saw a presentation on a 'outbreak' of urolithiasis (bladder stones) causing urethral obstruction in a group of feedlot steers, when someone convinced them to mix in a bunch of diatomaceous earth (DE) as a 'natural dewormer'. The high mineral content of the DE precipitated a trainwreck... not sure that they assayed the 'stones' for mineral content, so I don't know if they were silica-based or struvite.

 

[Lucky_P]

There was one that I saw early in my career... the practice owner had seen this steer on the farm, several times over the preceding couple of weeks, for 'chronic bloat', and had been passing an orogastric tube to decompress. He made an appointment for them to bring the steer in, on Saturday morning(his day off), no less(the busiest day of the week!), for me to do a rumenotomy and fistulate it if necessary. I'd not seen it previously or done an exam... I just assumed (you'll soon see where that got me!) that he knew what the hell he was talking about.
So... I had this 600 lb steer, with greatly distended abdomen, in the chute, made my line block to make a flank incision, and it went down and died, bang!, right there in the chute. Had an abdomen filled with at least 30 gallons of urine, and a bladder that had ruptured days/weeks earlier.

 

[gcreekrch]

Our calcium and phosphorus levels here are both high. Calcium not high enough to offset occurrence of kidney stones. We have save several over the years by operating on them but lose one or two every year by not observing initial symptoms. Once the bladder breaks they are done.

Usually avoid wintering steers but there are 50 some here this year.

 

[Buck Randall]

I've only seen a handful of them. Anecdotally, feeding plenty of salt and using water heaters to keep the water from being extremely cold seems to help.

 

[Hpacres440p]

I've only seen a handful of them. Anecdotally, feeding plenty of salt and using water heaters to keep the water from being extremely cold seems to help.

Does ammonium chloride added to feed help like it does in goats with urethral blockages?

 

[Buck Randall]

Does ammonium chloride added to feed help like it does in goats with urethral blockages?

I've got no experiences with using it in cattle, but it should work the same.

 

[faster horses]

Our calcium and phosphorus levels here are both high. Calcium not high enough to offset occurrence of kidney stones. We have save several over the years by operating on them but lose one or two every year by not observing initial symptoms. Once the bladder breaks they are done.

Usually avoid wintering steers but there are 50 some here this year.

As I am sure you know, gcreek, it is a calcium/phosphorus imbalance. I will see if there is anything I can find out to help with it. What is the cal/phos ratio in your mineral, if you don't mind saying.

 

[gcreekrch]

As I am sure you know, gcreek, it is a calcium/phosphorus imbalance. I will see if there is anything I can find out to help with it. What is the cal/phos ratio in your mineral, if you don't mind saying.

I will have to check when I get home, as you may have read, I am looking after Debbie and getting over a bout of Covid in a hotel room in WL at present.
I know we went over this some years ago but I can't remember what the ratio your vet and I worked out..

 

[faster horses]

I will have to check when I get home, as you may have read, I am looking after Debbie and getting over a bout of Covid in a hotel room in WL at present.
I know we went over this some years ago but I can't remember what the ratio your vet and I worked out..

Take care of YOU and HER, as I know you are; that's the most important. Everything else can wait!

 

[Nkline]

I've got no experiences with using it in cattle, but it should work the same.

I was looking into ammonium chloride as an npn source alternative to urea. Ammonium Chloride acidifys the urine dissolving stones. My question for you is, do the goats or sheep back off feed when you add it in?

 

[Buck Randall]

I was looking into ammonium chloride as an npn source alternative to urea. Ammonium Chloride acidifys the urine dissolving stones. My question for you is, do the goats or sheep back off feed when you add it in?

I have very little experience with goats or sheep on full feed; most of the ones I see are backyard pets. As long as it's mixed well and fed at an appropriate level, I haven't seen any problems. They will absolutely refuse to eat anything top dressed with it.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I will have to check when I get home, as you may have read, I am looking after Debbie and getting over a bout of Covid in a hotel room in WL at present.
I know we went over this some years ago but I can't remember what the ratio your vet and I worked out..

Get well!!

 

[greybeard]

Get Well Gcreekrnch!!