What's Involved?

[cowgal]

Sixteen years ago, we pulled the nicest Polled Hereford heifer of the lot out of my Father-in-laws herd for my eight year old daughter to show. We did everything the "experts" said to do, and after three shows, realized that pasture cows can't compete on the Show Circuit. Now, this is only a hobby for me. I knew up front that I would probably never show a profit, however, I'm still trying. In my opinion, show cattle (breeding stock), are what pasture cows would be in a perfect world. Sure, they're babied. My cows are all fed a show ration 365 days a year. They are my pets. They all have a name and a show ring history with lots of memories. When we lose a cow, we don't even think of the monetary loss. We feel as though we've lost a member of the family.

All this said, I think the commercial cattleman can learn a great deal from the Show Ring. If he can study and learn genetics, he can AI his best cows to the proper "Show Bulls" and produce some superior calves that will go out in the pasture and work!! :shock:

If your best pasture cattle won't work in a show ring, why should I believe your best show cattle will work in the pasture. You say that show cattle are what pasture cattle would be in a perfect world. Well, this isn't a perfect world and producers want performers whether it be pasture or show ring--I thought you said first that you couldn't acheive both (hereford reference) then that you were working to produce something that commercial cattlemen could benefit from. If this is your goal then I think that is great, but I was asking for convincing, because an animal on show feed 365 is not pushed to meet commercial value potential.

If you are saying that MY attitude won't last here, then I am sorry that I provoked any critical thinking skills. Not trying to stir the pot, I am just trying to initiate intelligent conversation.

 

[cowgal]

Admittedly the "pushy-mom" comment may have been over the line , but you have seen them too and I perceived AAOK's reply to be somewhat condescending --I suppose that is what the smilies are for :?: --specific intent. My apology AAOK for the la di da pushy mom comment, but still would like intelligent conversation/debate on the reality of pasture cattle becoming show cattle and vice versa.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

As I said in previous post, we start our showstring in May. They are "coddled" through October. A few get shown two years (as a calf, than as a yearling - or possibly a cow/calf pair). But, after and in between showing, they are put with the age group they belong with & are treated equally. My cows get grass in the summer & hay in the winter. PERIOD. They do get a great mineral & health program. My replacement heifers are grained from weaning thru breeding. I have had many that are not shown as calves, but as bred heifers ON PASTURE I may decide to pull them in & halter break them & show them. I had one I pulled in from pasture in our showstring this past year. She was Division Champion at National shows. If the genetics are in the herd, any "pasture" animal can become a show animal. Notice I said "animal" not cow. Very few "cows" are pulled in to the showstring that haven't been shown previously, but there have been exceptions in our herd. One that has the phenotype, great udder & great calf on side (cows can only be shown with a calf on side), may deserve the extra work to halter break her. No, not all my cattle are halter broke or shown, but they all have the capability (genetics) to produce a show-winning calf - OR NOT!

 

[cowgal]

What qualities do you look for in your show string beyond the basics that a commercial cattleman would look for? Do they all posess the ability to grow hair? Not trying to put anyone against another, but is it easy to differentiate between cattle that are babied and those that are just show ready? (meaning those that are never expected to perform on a natural set of circumstances vs. those that are--like your program)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I guess I look for (expect) the same qualities as a commercail breeder. Must have a good set of legs (structure) number 1, lots of natural depth, width, spring of rib & length. Hair is VERY optional. Simmental cattle are not known for good hair. Some of the blacks have decent hair. We are not "hair" people. We keep it very short - blocking it all the time. We do not "glue" legs for the show. Basically, we blow & show - and yes, we do win - at national shows, not just local county fairs. Not saying this to brag, just getting the point across that if you do your homework at HOME, you don't have to play all the fitting games.
Now, we were (and are) promoting a bull for semen sales & yes, we did hire a professional to fit him for the bigger shows. Some judges really want that "dressed" look for the pics! so couldnt take a chance of not having him "dressed". Personally, I think his pasture pics look better (more impressive) than his show pics.

 

[cowgal]

Okay, I don't understand fitting or glueing legs???By the way, I looked at some of your herd on you website adn they look very functional to me!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Cowgal - thanks. We are VERY proud of our herd.

Fitting legs, gluing, boning legs - all means they work the hair so that it stands straight out (sort of) and they spray adhesive on it to stay that way, than they clip the exess hair off to shape the leg the way they want it to look. Show steers want a "post" legged look as far as I can see (we don't do club calves). Breeding stock (ours) you want a nice flat, wide joint - not round, so you clip the inside & outside edges of the joints to "flatten" them. My husband & I don't bone up legs at the shows. I brush the leg hair & clip it at home.

 

[Angus Cattle Shower]

Your cattle are DEFINATLEY the best i have ever seen.
Can you tell us what the difference in pasture cattle, and show cattle is? I just pick the best 2 that I can find within an hour ans a half.
Last year got Res.Champion hfr., and 3rd overall female.
In show The heifer won the breed class.
Steer got 7th.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Your cattle are DEFINATLEY the best i have ever seen.

Thank you.

Can you tell us what the difference in pasture cattle, and show cattle is?

There IS NO DIFFERENCE. Cattle are cattle. "pretty" cattle may not make good show cattle and some cattle out in pasture that don't look very good, may make great show cattle. It depends on feeding, fitting, genetics and that "natural" show look, and TEMPERAMENT!

We had a great yearling heifer in our string last year. Was a knothead when she got in the ring. Would pull her head into her shoulders & look terrible. She actually had a nice front end, but would be critisized for having a short thick front end. Some cattle "show" themselves.

 

[AAOK]

Well....la di da! If I am reading this at all like you are saying it, I don't think I would want any part of it! Sounds like a beauty pageant for cattle and AAOK you sound just a little like one of those, Oh, what do you call them? Those moms that push their little girls so hard in competition and live out their dreams through them.

The answer I was looking for was not the comprehensive guide to feeding, fluffing, and petting your heifer, but more along the lines of

Wash-1 hour?
Clip-1 hour?
fluffing-1 hour?
etc-1 hour?

Now, I probably should have been more specific, but like I said--I know nothing!

I don't know why breeders would line up to get semen off an "all show no go" bull. Can you convince me?

Oh, alright, point taken! Sometimes I just can't help myself. I do happen to be just a bit proud of our accomplishments. FYI: I'm the Dad, not the Mom. It was my girls who pushed 'ol Dad. I also didn't grow up with any knowledge of this "show stuff", but when I take on a project I always tend to go overboard.

Now, to try a little harder to really address you questions:

All clipping should be completed at home. A show calf should require about one hour of clipping per week. Assuming you are at the show. What has to be done, and how long should it take?

1.Feeding and washing should already be completed. Never wash on show day.(It dulls the hair) Wash the night before, spray on all the conditioners, brush them in, and bed the calf down wet, under fans, on clean bedding - 1 Hour

2. Fog the calf with a light mist of alcohol and water. Blow dry until clean. 15 minutes.

3. Fit legs and tail head: roto brush, adhesive, tail adhesive, paint (two coats) 1 - 1 1/2 hours

4. Work body hair for bloom (here's the fluffing) 30 minutes minimum.

All of these times reflect an experienced fitter in charge. We never hired anyone as most do, but rather worked our tails off until we could make our calves ready for the "beauty pageant", just as good as the big time professionals. Based on my own experiences, I would say it's next to impossible to learn the ropes yourself in less than about four years to compete at the national level.


As to your question about an "All Show, No Go Bull", I don't have a clue why they line up. That's not at all what I was taking about. I'm saying that pasture cattle or a registered herd designed for sales at the local auction, don't have the genetic capacity to compete in the show ring. That's not to say that they can't be "Bred Up" by utilizing show quality bulls. All show calves started this way.

A word of caution if you take on this kind of a project: You WILL get attached to these calves, and you WILL baby them just like you would any other pet. If you don't, you're not working at it hard enough to do any good.


My 2 cents!

 

[Angus Cattle Shower]

Well....la di da! If I am reading this at all like you are saying it, I don't think I would want any part of it! Sounds like a beauty pageant for cattle and AAOK you sound just a little like one of those, Oh, what do you call them? Those moms that push their little girls so hard in competition and live out their dreams through them.

The answer I was looking for was not the comprehensive guide to feeding, fluffing, and petting your heifer, but more along the lines of

Wash-1 hour?
Clip-1 hour?
fluffing-1 hour?
etc-1 hour?

Now, I probably should have been more specific, but like I said--I know nothing!

I don't know why breeders would line up to get semen off an "all show no go" bull. Can you convince me?

Oh, alright, point taken! Sometimes I just can't help myself. I do happen to be just a bit proud of our accomplishments. FYI: I'm the Dad, not the Mom. It was my girls who pushed 'ol Dad. I also didn't grow up with any knowledge of this "show stuff", but when I take on a project I always tend to go overboard.

Now, to try a little harder to really address you questions:

All clipping should be completed at home. A show calf should require about one hour of clipping per week. Assuming you are at the show. What has to be done, and how long should it take?

1.Feeding and washing should already be completed. Never wash on show day.(It dulls the hair) Wash the night before, spray on all the conditioners, brush them in, and bed the calf down wet, under fans, on clean bedding - 1 Hour

2. Fog the calf with a light mist of alcohol and water. Blow dry until clean. 15 minutes.

3. Fit legs and tail head: roto brush, adhesive, tail adhesive, paint (two coats) 1 - 1 1/2 hours

4. Work body hair for bloom (here's the fluffing) 30 minutes minimum.

All of these times reflect an experienced fitter in charge. We never hired anyone as most do, but rather worked our tails off until we could make our calves ready for the "beauty pageant", just as good as the big time professionals. Based on my own experiences, I would say it's next to impossible to learn the ropes yourself in less than about four years to compete at the national level.


As to your question about an "All Show, No Go Bull", I don't have a clue why they line up. That's not at all what I was taking about. I'm saying that pasture cattle or a registered herd designed for sales at the local auction, don't have the genetic capacity to compete in the show ring. That's not to say that they can't be "Bred Up" by utilizing show quality bulls. All show calves started this way.

A word of caution if you take on this kind of a project: You WILL get attached to these calves, and you WILL baby them just like you would any other pet. If you don't, you're not working at it hard enough to do any good.


My 2 cents!

Thats Right.
If you dont get attatched to them some people don't think you don't care about the animal. With my first steer, as I sold him in the ring I bawled. That is hard to let them go.

In that sale I got the 3rd highest price

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Interesting AAOK. I am wondering about the alcohol and the misting--what's it do?

 

[AAOK]

You get a fogger attachment for you Blow Dryer. This gives a very fine mist. The alcohol works to cut the dust and grime off the hairs when blown at high pressure. Similar to Windex on glass. The alcohol content is so low that it doesn't interupt the oils in the hair as soap would do.

Just another trick of the trade.

 

[holistichoofcare]

wouldnt show sheen do the same thing Ive watched beef fitters at work and have never been able to completly grasp all that is entailed which shocks me since ive gotten dairy cattle ready on the national level for a long time

 

[tapeworm]

The cattle showworld will be a much more honest and better place when they get rid of all that silly,shiny, sheeny, sticky mess. Spraypaint, hairspray and glue has its place...BUT ITS PLACE AINT ON A COW!!! I'd rather see breeding stock judged on epds than gooey mess.

For a steer show whats wrong with adg or feed conversion. Dont you guys want to teach kids about profit and loss with feeding cattle??? How about traits that contribute to that. Hey!!! What about..what about...what about......ULTRASOUND!!! Wouldnt that be better at picking the best steer than the longest prettiest hair or who matched the black krylon better

 

[AAOK]

The cattle showworld will be a much more honest and better place when they get rid of all that silly,shiny, sheeny, sticky mess. Spraypaint, hairspray and glue has its place...BUT ITS PLACE AINT ON A COW!!! I'd rather see breeding stock judged on epds than gooey mess.

For a steer show whats wrong with adg or feed conversion. Dont you guys want to teach kids about profit and loss with feeding cattle??? How about traits that contribute to that. Hey!!! What about..what about...what about......ULTRASOUND!!! Wouldnt that be better at picking the best steer than the longest prettiest hair or who matched the black krylon better

For My 2 Cents......If you don't like the "Fluff" of the show ring, do something else. THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT A SHOW!!!!

My younger daughter, who was on two different National Champion Team Grooming teams, is absolutely livid about the trend to limit the grooming techniques allowed at certsin shows. Why work so hard at selection, breeding, feeding, breaking, etc. and not get to make the animal look it's absolute best?

 

[AAOK]

wouldnt show sheen do the same thing Ive watched beef fitters at work and have never been able to completly grasp all that is entailed which shocks me since ive gotten dairy cattle ready on the national level for a long time

Most Show Sheens are merely watered down conditioners, so, no they won't work nearly as well as an alcohol fog.

 

[greatgerts]

Actually, if you don't want to mess with "Fluff" use a breed that shows the hair short, like Gerts...

I know there are others, but do not want to get something wrong.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Show sheen (or all sheens) are used to REPEL the dirt. They make the hair slick (different from a conditioner). The alcohol is used to "cut" the dirt. It is a quick fix instead of washing with water. We use windshield washer.
Not everyone uses all those products. It is your choice. We basically blow & show. We do use a little adhesive on the tail head if we need to, and we paint the hoofs black.
Now, if we are at one of the top shows in the nation (like Louisville) we have paid a porfessional fitter to get our animal ready for the show. I wouldn't if everyone else didn't, but to be at the top, you need to "dress" them up equal to the others to be competitive.

 

[L Weir]

You use windshield washer fluid? How does that leave the hair? Is this sprayed on the night before and washed off in the morning?