What is the diff between a 400 lb calf and a 600 lb?

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now see I hadnt thought of it like that...I assume that they are unknowns coming from the markets in florida. I think that he is talkin to those of us who don't have a potload...or enough to retain ownership.
what he is doing is preconditioning them for the feedlots and slaughter. I suppose lots could be ordered from him to meet the slaughterhouse requirements
the biggest thing I got from him was that the barns offer nothing for backgrounding. everything he gets goes thru the same regiment...
technically all my calfs are preconditioned...shots/wormed/vac/castrated/bunk broke/bout 8-9 mos. i offer exactly what he wants..but since I sell 3/4 at a time 5 times a yr nobody knows that ..so I don't top the sale..just run avg or slightly better mostly
I might add he isn't the buyer..buyers send their stuff to him to get ready for that 30 hr trip to ok or ks in the dead of winter
 
See I was wondering why you didn't sell straight to him, if you were turning out what he wanted, for himself. He's telling you what he wants to receive from his clients, so his death loss/gain is better, whatever their arrangement might be. He's not wanting to background per se, he's preheating other people's cattle, and apparently he has the hookup at the yards to get the cattle in. That's his angle if he's wanting cattle that big I would think? But where is he making his money if he's getting cattle in that big, that belongs to someone else, and they are retaining ownership? Maybe he's sending some of his own on the truck to get them out there with the clients cattle, saving his transportation fees to get his there free? Idk, just thinking about it. Stuff like this is interesting to me. How someone is making money, when it is not immediately apparent. Maybe his volume of cattle taken in and charged for yardage a while is making his money?
 
It's says he charges 30¢ per head per day with a 15000 head capacity = $4500 per day. Im sure there's a lot of infrastructure and overhead that goes into an operation of that scale, but a profit could still be made with little risk on his part. Florida cattle do well once straightened out, his service really lowers the risk for buyers and they can make a profit on the buy with them.
 
Every time I see the this
" difference between 400 and 600# calf"
200# or a 100-150 bucks :D
 
Cross-7":lls6okfm said:
Every time I see the this
" difference between 400 and 600# calf"
200# or a 100-150 bucks :D


totally dependent on inputs and calf structure....I think that's why a lot of guys wean on the trlr..no inputs hardly at all
 
Cross-7":2s5hqb35 said:
Every time I see the this
" difference between 400 and 600# calf"
200# or a 100-150 bucks :D

I know. I was surprised how long it took someone to say 200 pounds, LOL.
 
I would like for somebody that sells at weaning to explain why they don't keep them until they've added some weight.
 
I had an order buyer tell me to tell producers to quit cutting their calves - that is how he made a living. He took mis-managed cattle in at 450 to 550 lbs, castrated(not banded), wormed, gave 2 rounds of shots and then grew them on grass with some feed until they weighed 750 to 900 and then sold them to feedyard. The secret is to add value (castrate, vaccinations and put in truckload lots).

You guys in Florida need to gather up a progressive minded sale barn operator and come visit Sulphur Springs Livestock when they hold one of the NETBIO sales. Preconditioned calves with a set health protocol. the calves are weighed as delivered to the barn (2% pencil shrink applied), sorted and co-mingled into uniform groups. They have been doing this for 18 years now. They have 6 sales a year in addition to their weekly sale. The last 3 sales have had over 7500 in each sale. Cattle come from Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. Here is a link:

http://www.sslivestockauctions.com/netbio.html
 
BC":2n5y4enc said:
I had an order buyer tell me to tell producers to quit cutting their calves - that is how he made a living. He took mis-managed cattle in at 450 to 550 lbs, castrated(not banded), wormed, gave 2 rounds of shots and then grew them on grass with some feed until they weighed 750 to 900 and then sold them to feedyard. The secret is to add value (castrate, vaccinations and put in truckload lots).

You guys in Florida need to gather up a progressive minded sale barn operator and come visit Sulphur Springs Livestock when they hold one of the NETBIO sales. Preconditioned calves with a set health protocol. the calves are weighed as delivered to the barn (2% pencil shrink applied), sorted and co-mingled into uniform groups. They have been doing this for 18 years now. They have 6 sales a year in addition to their weekly sale. The last 3 sales have had over 7500 in each sale. Cattle come from Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. Here is a link:

http://www.sslivestockauctions.com/netbio.html

The state of Ky through the extension service, as well as individual yards have similar programs. Unfortunately here, you don't see much actual additional value to the animal on sale day. True story--------I had some CPH calves, and the morning of the sale, one wised up and wouldn't come in the catching pen. I cut his CPH tag out, and sold him the next week at the regular sale. He brought a nickel more than he's counterparts the week before. I'm still a proponent of preconditioning calves, I'm just saying that here, it's not necessarily money in the bank.
 
dieselbeef":1vn39a50 said:
you wont get paid for it here either...doesn't anyone read the posts except the end ones
I read your post. You said you don't get paid to precondition calves. I suggested that you and some other producers get with your sale barn operator and look into putting together a set of special precondition sales. It takes numbers to make truckload lots. That is the reason the NETBIO sales work - they take calves from all size producers and comingle them to try and get load lot groups. It has taken a long time (18 years) but it has gotten to the point where they are cutting off consignments. The last three sales (November,2016, January and March, 2017) have had between 7500 and 8500 head each. A producer with 3 or 4 pre-conditioned calves at a sale will not see a difference, but when you can get a truckload it will make $5 to $15 per cwt. It takes cooperation and planning. The next NETBIO sale will be May 17. Calves have to be weaned by April 2 and last booster shot given by April 17. Take time to watch this sale on http://www.lmaauctions.com Click on Sulphur Springs Livestock Auction. Then you can see for yourself. This sale was started because like the southeast, we in East Texas had a reputation for high risk cattle.
 
Bigfoot":jalplp51 said:
I would like for somebody that sells at weaning to explain why they don't keep them until they've added some weight.
Guess you have to go with how the local market works.....as has been stated by some many times before.....shrink after weaning and the added 60-90 days risk of death, sickness, dumbassluck.....added labor, extra pens and pasture would be needed or I'd have to cut back on the number of cows I could run. I would need feed bunks and equip need to feed in, proper feed storage for the feed plus the feed itself. Castration and other veterinary expense and labor would be a must also.........
I "specialize" in getting a 475 - 550 lb calf weaned at 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 months and leave it to the next fellow to take it from their. If I did it your way, all of the above comes into play. Not saying your way is wrong. Just isn't for me.
 
dieselbeef":czaxgbsq said:
so how do you get paid then...I get 1.50/100 if that what the lot sells for? or do we split it 90 ways
You get paid what the lot brings per pound x how many pounds of calf you have in that lot. You might have calves in 4 or 5 different groups. You get paid for the pounds sold in that group. The NETBIO sales were designed to help small producers get the advantage of selling in large groups.
 
BC":31lvdjkc said:
I had an order buyer tell me to tell producers to quit cutting their calves - that is how he made a living. He took mis-managed cattle in at 450 to 550 lbs, castrated(not banded), wormed, gave 2 rounds of shots and then grew them on grass with some feed until they weighed 750 to 900 and then sold them to feedyard. The secret is to add value (castrate, vaccinations and put in truckload lots).

That is hard to hear.

The whole feedlot system is hard enough on cattle, and then promoting late castration and adding that stress on them, all to make a buck.

And we wonder why people are eating more chicken.
 
I don't know how that could be true bc..our guy told us the only thing adding value for him IS castration since he can see it has been done..shots and any other backgrounding is heresay
 
We attended a cattlemens college program that discussed marketing. Every time I attend a program like this I pick up something, sometimes it's something I already knew but had just forgotten about. They had a panel discussing how to get the best price for your calves, and all on the panel agreed proper health care vaccinations, bunk broke etc. The barn manager then said don't tell my guy as you unload the trailer that oh yea they have had all there shots. He recommended contacting the barn a few weeks prior to bringing the calves, let them know what your bringing, what vaccinations they have had how long they have been bunk broke. This allows the barn management time to alert buyers that are in the market for that type of calf. Bottom line develop a business relationship with your sale barn. This is something we should all do.

Gizmom
 
dieselbeef":8r20zcaw said:
I don't know how that could be true bc..our guy told us the only thing adding value for him IS castration since he can see it has been done..shots and any other backgrounding is heresay
I can see I am not making myself clear. You are correct that if you take 4 or 5 head in that have had everything done to them and there are no other calves have had that protocol, then you do not get paid for your effort.

What I am talking about is a special sale that has only calves that have followed a set health regimen. When you can co-mingle calves to make truck load lots of same sex, same quality with an even weight distribution, that have been castrated, weaned, broke to a feed and water trough and the same vaccinations, THEN you will see a difference. In 2016, the Northeast Texas Beef Improvement Association (NETBIO) marketed 34,889 head in 6 sales. Of that total, 4295 head came from the following states – Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Florida and Alabama. The rest came from Texas counties. There are consignors that haul calves 130 to 145 miles to this sale.

I know of a couple of guys that buy calves out of sale barns in southeastern states to castrate, straighten out, and get on the health protocol. They keep the calves 60 to 90 days. One of them had over 400 head in the last sale. If it wasn't working why is he doing it?
 
We have the BQA (beef quality assurance) program here in Va and they will hold several sales a year. Monthly or so at one of the stockyards. Now first off, I do believe that if you can do all this, that it is fair that you can go to a sale that will get you a premium price for your calves. But the down side is that we also wind up paying more for the commission, more for the yardage, more to be a member of the feeder assoc., which would all be good if we got a real good increase over the average sale price. However, having done it several times over the years, I cannot say that we have come out any better than when we wean on the trailer and ship. We do castrate, and they all have had blackleg. Other than that we often don't do much else. We do not do any implants.

Most all our calves do know what a bunk is, will come for some feed as I do it to keep them a little more friendly and can catch them easier. I don't creep feed per say, but do have a pen with a creep gate that the calves quickly learn that if they come in, they get a treat and know they won't get pushed around by the big cows. I mean they are learning this by 2-3 months of age. Not all the pastures we rent have this convenience. But when I go to check cows, I will call them to the feeders for a bucket or two of feed, maybe once or twice a week, and the calves are in the pen waiting for me. They get a little, and usually a couple of leafs of real good orchard grass hay and it sure doesn't take them long to realize that this is their place and they get fed. When we do wean and hold them for any reason, then they are the ones teaching the others what feed is for. We don't wean and have the cows anywhere close to the weaned calves. Like miles away. We will leave the cows at the familiar pastures so they don't feel the need to jump fences going looking for their calves, but just walk the fences for a day thinking their babies will come back to them. We also pull calves off at all different ages, according to our work schedules, the market, time of year, and CONDITION of the cows. But usually in the 6-9 month age, usually 7-8 months.
We have tried pulling them younger, running more cows but have pretty much settled on a few less cows and a few more pounds on the calves. Our local market is 30 minutes away, has the lowest commissions of any around and attracts buyers that pay as good, as any, closeby. Same buyers that we see at other sale barns an hour away. There are a couple of markets that are about 2+ hours away that often average .10 a pound more, but it is not worth the haul, time, shrinkage, and such, for a load of 10-15 calves; and they don't always do any better than local.
We also will haul 1 load a week for a couple of weeks so that we don't need to have too many cattle at the barn at a time, and we can do the preg checks, and get the cows back to pasture, the calves gone, and it isn't such a long day when we are also working other jobs. I can load and haul the calves, my son doesn't miss work; or can come and help on an early lunch hour and he goes back to work and I do the sitting in line to unload. Then we will load and return the cows to pasture the next morning, or they will stay at the barn lots for a few days til they are over the weaning and get put where they need to be for their dry period and next calving season.
 

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