What is it with this "Black Cow Fever"?

[robertwhite]

I have a small mixed herd consisting of Angus, Simmental, Beefmaster, Herford's of various percentages and/or purebred.

Around these parts (TN), if you do not have a "black" calf, you will get docked big time at the sale barn. I've had black calves that were "weaker" than other solid or multi colored sell for more at the same auction. It has happened at the large county stockyard one too many times, so today I take my last calf of the season (beautiful Red Angus heifer) to a different sale barn to see if I can do better.

So the auction is on and there are a lot of black angus calves, some pretty decent, some pretty crappy looking. The yard owner is setting the start at anywhere from $1.20-$1.50 (weight dependent) and I am thinking that is good as my calf should do well.

So my calf comes through at 435 lbs and looks real decent even with about a 15lb weight loss from stress, etc. Calf gets in the ring and they start her off at $1.00 Really? Are you kidding me? Buyers ran her all the way up to $1.24, so I know she was where she needed to be condition wise, if not, she would have never ran up .24 in those few seconds. So let me get this straight, because my calf has a Red hide instead of a Black hide, she is worth .20 less lb than if she was black?

I know the Angus industry has invested millions of dollars in advertising/promotion over the last 15-20 yrs to be the "Gold standard" for cows/calves, but this is just plain stupid. I am losing $50-70 per head because of this scam. Heck, as far as I know, ALL cows are the same color when their hide is stripped and they are hanging. (oh, that's right, only Angus cows get stamped certified Angus :roll: )

Sure, I could sell off some of my cows and re-buy Black ones, but that is just ridiculous. I have had people tell me that it is not like this out West, but I can't say from personal experience. It is just frustrating as all get out. :bang:

Rant mode off.... :nod:

 

[SRBeef]

... only Angus cows get stamped certified Angus...

As I understand it, CAB is more of a marbling standard then certifying the breed. A carcass could be 49% alley cat and still stamped CAB if it was mostly black when it came in and had enough marbling. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

What is really interesting is recent work that shows that taste and tenderness are not necessarily directly related to marbling. Marbling is usued because it is something relatively easy to view and judge as the carcass speeds down the line.

I agree with your feelings entirely. The current dock at the sale barn for anything not black is nothing short of ridiculous. That's why I sell freezer beef. I get paid for the quality of what's on the plate, not what color the hide WAS.

But as they say, the buyer is always right. So if you don't like the current rules, play a different game.

I do think that as calves become harder to find, the price differential due to hide color will soon diminish and eventually logic will prevail... eventually....

Jim

 

[Jogeephus]

You need to give the buyers what they want. Not doing this is not anyone's fault but the producer and its not the scam that is costing you money its yourself. Personally, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I assure you the best thing I ever did was sit down with two buyers and ask them what they wanted me to raise. I listened. Took two years to implement what they told me to do but they rewarded me handsomely for it. Heck, if they want polka dotted calves I'll raise them. I don't care. I have a favorite breed but I'm not about to raise them because that would be financial suicide if I did. Give em what they want is all I can say.

 

[robertwhite]

You need to give the buyers what they want. Not doing this is not anyone's fault but the producer and its not the scam that is costing you money its yourself. Personally, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I assure you the best thing I ever did was sit down with two buyers and ask them what they wanted me to raise. I listened. Took two years to implement what they told me to do but they rewarded me handsomely for it. Heck, if they want polka dotted calves I'll raise them. I don't care. I have a favorite breed but I'm not about to raise them because that would be financial suicide if I did. Give em what they want is all I can say.

Then I would be doing exactly what the Angus association wants me to do, which is to cave in and produce what they say is best. Thats utter crap in my view. We all know that the hide color does not make the meat taste better. And from what I understand, the "certified Angus" label is just that, a label. (someone correct me if I am wrong). The Angus association has done a great job marketing their product just like Rolex has done with their product.

 

[dun]

It's not that way at all salebarns. A couple of weeks ago I hauled 3 calves to the sale. One was solid black, one was solid red and one was a red baldy. They were within a couple of pounds of each other in weight. All 3 sold by themsleves (3 different buyers) they all brought the same price. It happened to top the sale for individual calves, A couple of pots brought a nickel more.

 

[Jogeephus]

Then I would be doing exactly what the Angus association wants me to do

You don't know that till you talk to the buyers. In my case, they told me to dump my angus bulls which is the last thing the angus association would want me to do. And these were were high dollar (to me) PB angus bulls I bought at a bulltest. My reds bring the same as the blacks and the buyers have offered to come buy them out of the field which I have done on a few occassions. Bottom liine is they like what I'm raising and I like what they pay me so its a win win deal.

 

[ANAZAZI]

You can keep the cows, just get a homozygous black bull. This bull does not have to be angus, most likely it is more profitable to use a "heavier" bull (a terminal breed, most come in black in the US). In case you need more cows; just buy them, the good side of your situation is that red cows are cheaper than black cows! :2cents:

 

[B&M Farms]

Here black and black baldies sale well, but a long framed calf of any color that can put on pounds will do well also. Charolais cross calves usually do as good as any. I have a neighbor that runs angus bulls on simmental cross cows and gets a premium for his calves. They are black but they are big framed. They have to be profitable to the buyer. If they are black, they already have an advantage. I agree with Jogeephus. Sale the buyers what they want. I know people that pay a premium for green and yellow tractors because they think they are better.

 

[salebarn junkie]

Other things come into play like how many red heifers were being sold that day if they cant fill a truck with like calves there will be more of a dock. The colar thing is just the way it is you can't change it, i try to only have black or yellow calves.

 

[fitz]

Sure, I could sell off some of my cows and re-buy Black ones, but that is just ridiculous. I have had people tell me that it is not like this out West, but I can't say from personal experience. It is just frustrating as all get out.

The yards here are the same. I ran Fleck Simmental for a long time. Finally conceded and went with a black simmental bull. Last two have been angus. Actually, I've become pleased with this cross and don't have to experience the dock. I decided to finish my cattle years with SimAngus cows. I only have two red girls left.

fitz

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Concerning the CAB - all beef type cattle only need to be 51% black hided for the live evaluaton. After they are harvested, they have to qualify for marbling, rib eye size & I believe Yield Grade.
They do not have to have any "certified" Angus breeding in them. Yes, yes, we all know if they are black they got it from Angus. Well, some of our PB Simmentals (homo black) might have 1% Angus genetics in them - and they sell for CAB if the carcass qualifies.
I agree with breeding/producing what the buyer wants. In my case, it's breeding stock, but you still have to listen to your buyers. Bottom line is - BOTTOM LINE!!! We're in this to make $$$$ - as much as possible.

 

[dun]

Just my opinion but I think the buyers use CAB as an excuse to doc toher than black. Sterling Silver has the same requiremnts as CAB except for color and the premium at slaughter is the same.

 

[robertwhite]

While I understand the comments and the way it all works in the end, if the trend continues unchecked or unaltered, won't it eventually lead to the demise of all breeds other than black in color? (other than dairy of course). In other words, a monopoly of sorts.

I was even tempted to bring home a couple of nice grey/chocolate colored charlois heifers yesterday but the concern again in my area black sells, all else is docked.

I should have a much higher percentage of black calves this Spring as my new bull is an all black angus/beefmaster, but the whole "black only" thing just doesn't sit well.

 

[robertwhite]

Just my opinion but I think the buyers use CAB as an excuse to doc toher than black.

That is precisely my feeling. Think about it. The Angus industry has tilted the odds in their favor, so if a buyer can get any non-black cow for $75 less a head, yet still sell it for right around angus price, it puts all that money into his pocket.

 

[Limomike]

It is the way it is.. and as Jo said.. play the game or go find a different game to play. I agree with what you are saying, as I have had the same problems around here with getting docked for hide color. See it all the time at the sales.. But with that said, I have twice had top sale calves in the 400 wt category and they were a Charolais cross, and a black w/f ...both steers.
Do as Anazi said, and get a black homo bull, if you want black calves. Dont have to sell your red cows. I will probably never get rid of my Red Angus cows, and keep investing in them, just because of their great production, and BCS ability throughout the years.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

While I understand the comments and the way it all works in the end, if the trend continues unchecked or unaltered, won't it eventually lead to the demise of all breeds other than black in color? (other than dairy of course). In other words, a monopoly of sorts.

I was even tempted to bring home a couple of nice grey/chocolate colored charlois heifers yesterday but the concern again in my area black sells, all else is docked.

I should have a much higher percentage of black calves this Spring as my new bull is an all black angus/beefmaster, but the whole "black only" thing just doesn't sit well.[/quote]
using that type of bull aint helping matters

 

[Goodlife]

Around here I see more black cows and with various Bulls (i.e. Hereford or Sem) used to produce black baldie calves. If you wanted to take advatage of heterosis with black offspring is it better to have Black Angus cattle or Bull? I know in RobertWhite's case he already has the red cattle. But for example one fellow I know recently started selling off red cows and purchasing black and is switching from a black bull to a Semental Bull. It made me wonder if one way of producing black calves is better than the other.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If you have a herd of homo black Angus cows & use a Simme bull - or have a herd of black Simmies & use an Angus bull it's still 50/50 genetics. Should have same calves - IF ALL IS EQUAL quality.
Your best option, instead of playing the black game is MARKET your calves. Don't just bring them to the local sale barn. Market direct to a buyer.
I direct market all blacks & reds to same buyer. Got 1.50/lb avg 710# - local sale had some feeders for 0.90-$1.00. Think what I would have lost. You producers that sit back & depend on a local auction are getting killed. Well, I say that, but maybe it isn't as drastic a difference in "real" cattle country - not "New York".

 

[highgrit]

When I got in the cow business everyone told me to make sure I have black calves. Your choice for a bull is a mistake. I was always told don't use a crossbred bull on crossbred cows. Some weird stuff can happen. In all reality all you need is Brahman, Hereford, and Angus cows. You can make whatever you need with them. I feel Beefmaster, Balancer, Braford, Brangus and all the other crossbred bulls are just that crossbreeds, but to each their own.

 

[SSGenetics]

When I got in the cow business everyone told me to make sure I have black calves. Your choice for a bull is a mistake. I was always told don't use a crossbred bull on crossbred cows. Some weird stuff can happen. In all reality all you need is Brahman, Hereford, and Angus cows. You can make whatever you need with them. I feel Beefmaster, Balancer, Braford, Brangus and all the other crossbred bulls are just that crossbreeds, but to each their own.

No, these are stabilized composites (i.e. "purebreds"). Hereford X Angus, Brangus X Beefmaster, Limo X Beefmaster, etc. are crossbred animals.