What Is A Hobby Breed?

[dun]

I think that any breed can be a hobby breed depending on how it's managed. Or put another way, there is no hobby breed, only hobby producers.

 

[6M Ranch]

Could it be that a 'hobby breed' is any breed that is routinely sold by the animal rather than by the pound?

What about seedstock producers? They sell animals by the head. I don't think Gardiner or Stevenson would be considered hobby ranchers. I think the only definition that would work for all situations is someone who doesn't sell any commodity, calves, seedstock, beef, etc. Those people I would call true hobby farmer/ranchers. I know people running 500 momma cows who still have to work an outside job to pay the bills. I also know people with a handfull of cows, who do extensive flushing, and that's their only source of income. I don't think quantity of cattle or outside employment determines whether people are a hobbyist. I think the hobby farmer/rancher label is thrown around too freely as a knock by the old timers.

 

[VanC]

I think the hobby farmer/rancher label is thrown around too freely as a knock by the old timers.

i agree.

 

[Frankie]

I think the hobby farmer/rancher label is thrown around too freely as a knock by the old timers.

i agree.

Me, too. I know several people only running a few head who produce better calves than several of the old timers around here with sizeable herds. They've retired from a successful business or career and want a few cows. They don't mind reading a book, attending a class or seminar, and are more open to improving their cattle. They retain ownership on the calves so they know what they've produced. Some old timers around here won't pay more for a bull today than they did 20 years ago. They've inbred their herds something awful. They haul the calves to the sale barn right off their mommas and don't know/care what happens then.

 

[aplusmnt]

America is the land of the free and land of opportunity so everyone has the right to raise and do as they please. But being a person that raises some cattle with what started as a hobby for my kids 4-H (but now I hope to turn it in to more of a small business).

I can still see the side of cattleman that raise livestock to feed their families. Rather it be full time or part time.

A person needs to be able to look at things from a perspective that does not step on their feelings.

I feed my family from cleaning toilets, if people decided to start cleaning toilets as a Hobby it would have a big affect on my ability to feed my family. People raising cattle as a hobby have an affect on the market value of those cattleman that do it for income purposes.

Everyone that gets worked up at the drop of the word hobby farmer should think, what is it that they do for a living? Janitor, welder, engineer, Postman, truck driver, etc......now what if people started doing those things, not worrying about making money but just because they enjoyed them. Would you be a little touchy about their new acquired hobby?

Then on top of it they want advice from you. I have had this happen in the cleaning business. A person that I know that works in a local plant bid a job on the side to clean, one that I bid on also. Then they wanted me to loan them equipment and give them advice on what chemicals would work best to do the floors. They did not know I bid the job also, but still it gets to you when you pay insurance and are trying to feed your family doing something as a legitimate business.

So even though I am a Hobby guy, by the IRS standards. I can still relate to why some people get a little cross and use the Hobby word as it is something bad. Because I am contributing to a lower market price for them, while they are trying to feed their families and I am cleaning toilets to feed mine.

 

[Herefords.US]

America is the land of the free and land of opportunity so everyone has the right to raise and do as they please. But being a person that raises some cattle with what started as a hobby for my kids 4-H (but now I hope to turn it in to more of a small business).

I can still see the side of cattleman that raise livestock to feed their families. Rather it be full time or part time.

A person needs to be able to look at things from a perspective that does not step on their feelings.

I feed my family from cleaning toilets, if people decided to start cleaning toilets as a Hobby it would have a big affect on my ability to feed my family. People raising cattle as a hobby have an affect on the market value of those cattleman that do it for income purposes.

Everyone that gets worked up at the drop of the word hobby farmer should think, what is it that they do for a living? Janitor, welder, engineer, Postman, truck driver, etc......now what if people started doing those things, not worrying about making money but just because they enjoyed them. Would you be a little touchy about their new acquired hobby?

Then on top of it they want advice from you. I have had this happen in the cleaning business. A person that I know that works in a local plant bid a job on the side to clean, one that I bid on also. Then they wanted me to loan them equipment and give them advice on what chemicals would work best to do the floors. They did not know I bid the job also, but still it gets to you when you pay insurance and are trying to feed your family doing something as a legitimate business.

So even though I am a Hobby guy, by the IRS standards. I can still relate to why some people get a little cross and use the Hobby word as it is something bad. Because I am contributing to a lower market price for them, while they are trying to feed their families and I am cleaning toilets to feed mine.

Interesting perspective that I hadn't fully considered. Thanks for presenting it.

I don't have a problem with the word - "hobby". Unless a person is deriving a significant portion of their net income from farming - and that income would be enough to support them and their family, it is a hobby. But that doesn't mean "hobby" has to be a negative term.

George

 

[Northern Rancher]

Good post Aplus that's a side and take on the business I've never seen before. We have 'sundowners' up here basically ranch at a loss so they can get their income tax back. Cost of production means nothing to them so are hard to outbid on some things for sure.

 

[Brandonm2]

I don't have a problem with the word - "hobby". Unless a person is deriving a significant portion of their net income from farming - and that income would be enough to support them and their family, it is a hobby. But that doesn't mean "hobby" has to be a negative term.

George

I STILL don't like the word "hobby". A lot of crop farmers have 20-80 cows grazing crop stubble and marginal land. Cows are not their primary income source; but most of them DO treat it like a business. You would not call them "hobby ranchers". IF somebody has a fulltime job and 30 cows; but they sell good calves and do attempt to make a profit then I see that as a second business not a hobby. There are good cattlemen that raise cows full time; who own a backhoe or dozer that they use to install septic tanks or clear trailer lots. Nobody would call them "hobby backhoe operators" or "dozer hobbyists". It is a second business. A lot of people have two or three businesses. I have a friend who holds an elected office, is a city building inspector, has a decent sized cattle herd and custom haying biz with his son and owns a restaurant and catering biz with his wife. Would he be a "hobby" caterer or a hobby rancher? or a hobby building inspector? Most 200 cow ranchers these days have other income sources. That does not necessarily mean that they are not good at what they do.

 

[Brandonm2]

Brandom the people you talk about are cattlemen and women. They ae in a catch 22 most work for the insurance and retirment. If it was not for those two things their would be many that would never work off the farm.

why not

I am not disagreeing; but that does not change that a lot of cattlemen are also Voag teachers, store keepers, small town lawyers, postmasters, auctioneers, 4H agents, managers, politicians, contractors, forest consultants, etc. WHY they do it is irrelevant.

 

[aplusmnt]

I use to have a link were the department of Agriculture classified you a Hobby farm if you made less than $10,000.00 but it is a dead link now.

But one way I would classify a person a hobby farm (and this includes me) is if you are spending money on your land instead of making money on it. If what you grow rather its crop or livestock can not pay for the land its being done on and make you extra income to boot then it would be a hobby. Hobbies do not make money they cost money. So if raising cattle does not make you money then it must be a hobby. Exceptions are bad years or start up years, but there would need to be some profits in the future to be a business and not a hobby.

Isn't that why the IRS looks hard at Farmers and Ranchers to see rather they are either making money or trying to make money.

Very few people open a business such as a Construction company and continue to do it if they have a net lost every year. Lots of people will raise livestock and suffer a net lost year after year and never quit doing it. They are the Hobby Cattleman.

I will consider myself a Hobby Farmer until that first year I actually show a profit. I just wont hang my head in shame because I am one!

 

[KMacGinley]

Frankie is right on the money, I for one would much rather that Americans were producing our beef, even 10 at a time rather than get it from Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil. There are some very well managed small herds with quality that put big herds to shame.

 

[mnmtranching]

The beef produced by hobby farmers has little impact on the cattle market. The US consumes about 100,000 head of cattle per day from domestic supplies.

We still fall way short of producing enough beef for our own use.
Think what the price of beef would be with out the Millions of pounds of imported beef that comes in every day?

 

[aplusmnt]

Frankie is right on the money, I for one would much rather that Americans were producing our beef, even 10 at a time rather than get it from Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil. There are some very well managed small herds with quality that put big herds to shame.

Even if the small guy producing 10 head at a time quit that does not mean the beef would come from another country. If Supply went down then price would go up, and then those doing it as a business would most likely be able to expand and pick up the slack of the hobby guys quiting.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie is right on the money, I for one would much rather that Americans were producing our beef, even 10 at a time rather than get it from Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil. There are some very well managed small herds with quality that put big herds to shame.

Even if the small guy producing 10 head at a time quit that does not mean the beef would come from another country. If Supply went down then price would go up, and then those doing it as a business would most likely be able to expand and pick up the slack of the hobby guys quiting.

They would expand if they could. The problem for the last 8-10 years is that producers have been unable to expand because of drought somewhere: Northwest, South Central and now the Southeast.

 

[aplusmnt]

Frankie is right on the money, I for one would much rather that Americans were producing our beef, even 10 at a time rather than get it from Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil. There are some very well managed small herds with quality that put big herds to shame.

Even if the small guy producing 10 head at a time quit that does not mean the beef would come from another country. If Supply went down then price would go up, and then those doing it as a business would most likely be able to expand and pick up the slack of the hobby guys quiting.

They would expand if they could. The problem for the last 8-10 years is that producers have been unable to expand because of drought somewhere: Northwest, South Central and now the Southeast.

Around here people do not expand because it cost to much to do so. I know where land is available right now to expand but the price of cattle would not justify the cost of the land. Or at least it would be a scary venture that if the cattle market hit a bigger down slide you would end up loosing.

 

[Oldtimer]

Frankie is right on the money, I for one would much rather that Americans were producing our beef, even 10 at a time rather than get it from Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil. There are some very well managed small herds with quality that put big herds to shame.

Even if the small guy producing 10 head at a time quit that does not mean the beef would come from another country. If Supply went down then price would go up, and then those doing it as a business would most likely be able to expand and pick up the slack of the hobby guys quiting.

They would expand if they could. The problem for the last 8-10 years is that producers have been unable to expand because of drought somewhere: Northwest, South Central and now the Southeast.

Around here people do not expand because it cost to much to do so. I know where land is available right now to expand but the price of cattle would not justify the cost of the land. Or at least it would be a scary venture that if the cattle market hit a bigger down slide you would end up loosing.

Yep-- and theres many that are financed to the hilt- that will go down the tubes if this market takes a downslide like it has in the past...After a few good years, I don't think many remember those bad years...Unless a guy has some moldy money laying around to invest- most of this property is overly priced and is just too high risk at this time to mortgage the farm/ranch for expansion...Lot of the oldtimers predicting we are on the way into another depression- I personally believe we are already probably in a recession (if the government still posted inflation figures like pre-Clinton era instead of the 2% lies they put out now)...
Not sure what would happen this time around-- but during the 30's depression, cattle, hogs, horses were worth almost nothing-- government bought up many through condemnation, killed them, and buried them in big pits--later changing the policy to use the cheap pork and beef to feed the needy....

What would happen today--???

 

[KMacGinley]

The beef produced by hobby farmers has little impact on the cattle market. The US consumes about 100,000 head of cattle per day from domestic supplies.

We still fall way short of producing enough beef for our own use.
Think what the price of beef would be with out the Millions of pounds of imported beef that comes in every day?

Not to dispute you, because I don't have any figures in front of me, but it seems to me, I heard that approaching half the cattle in this country come from herds of 50 or less.

 

[Wewild]

What would happen today--???

They would pump more money into the economy and reduce the value of the dollar as they have since then.

 

[mnmtranching]

The beef produced by hobby farmers has little impact on the cattle market. The US consumes about 100,000 head of cattle per day from domestic supplies.

We still fall way short of producing enough beef for our own use.
Think what the price of beef would be with out the Millions of pounds of imported beef that comes in every day?

Not to dispute you, because I don't have any figures in front of me, but it seems to me, I heard that approaching half the cattle in this country come from herds of 50 or less.

A lot of our domestic beef comes from herds of less than 50. But the price of beef as far as the consumer is concerned is controlled by imports.