What Is A Hobby Breed?

[Running Arrow Bill]

If there is such a classification as Hobby Breed, I would say it is one that people eeww and awww over or pick because of how they look not so much as to how they produce. Like them Panda cattle, or miniature Herefords and maybe Long horns.

Just because something is a Hobby item does not mean that those supplying it do it as a Hobby. I use to build model cars as a Hobby, but I doubt the guy who started Revell Models runs his business as a Hobby.

Maybe Long Horns could be classified as a Hobby breed if there was such a classification. But if this is the case I am sure some people make a business out of supplying the Hobbyist with their Hobbies, much like the Revell Model company does.

The "Hobby" word is always very interesting. It seems to apply to any venture, product, or service.

I know of some "Long Horn" (aka Longhorn) ranches that have herds of 500 to 1,000 Longhorns. We just bought another bull from a ranch with around 300 Longhorns. Unless someone is independently wealthy, I can't imagine anyone running several hundred herd of anything (except perhaps "range chickens") and not making enough money to support the venture.

At Running Arrow Farm we presently have 48 head of Longhorns with more on the way. Both of us "work" here full-time, no outside jobs. We try to run it like a business, with National based advertising, website, and interstate sales.

IMO, given this, I don't think we are a "Hobby Farmer"...lol. ;-)

 

[backhoeboogie]

Why do 90% of the threads on every board, no matter what the topic, turn into Angus bashing? I think I'll start a "What's your favorite brand of beer" thread on the coffee shop board and see how long it takes to start dogging Angus.

Just that old green envy-- jealousy...As long as the buyers keep topping the market with the prices they pay for the angus, everybody else can bash them all they want as far as I care... ;-)

Nothing Last Forever ;-)

Yep your right- but I probably won't be around Forever either ;-) Bought the first angus bulls in 1958- We were one of the first places in our area to have them "black bulls"- as this was pretty much Hereford country with still a few Shorthorn bulls being run... Then in the late 60's the "experts" convinced me that you had to cross with Continentals--tried simmi, limi, char over the next 10 years and all had more problems then what good they returned...Pretty well convinced me nothing beat the good old fashioned angus and herefords for me...

Oldtimer, if I lived in your climate I would do the same. I am running brangus mostly and they do fine here. They are 5/8 angus. My straight angus do okay if I calve in the late fall.

I don't think it is so much "angus bashing" as it is listening to everyone tell us angus is the answer for everything. We know better, for our climate. If our climate were different, we'd probably all be on the same page. But it is not the same. So we'll likely have the same arguments every time someone brings it up. If we are talking longhorns, someone brings it up, if we are talking charlais, someone brings it up. Best to just not bring it up.

 

[CSM]

Question for Oldtimer.

You sad that you tried the continentals up to around the late seventies, and went back to the old fashioned angus and herefords. If you are still using angus and herefords, are these cattle the same as the cattle you had before you tried the continentals? Most people will say these cattle are not the same as they were in the early 60's. Its been over 25 years since you tried Sim, Lim, Char, these breeds have all changed too. Just curious if you had considered that.

CSM

 

[6M Ranch]

I think it is Angus bashing when the Angus haters initiate the argument. Show me a post where an Angus breeder stated that Angus work in all situations for everyone. I also can't recall a single post where an Angus breeder stated that Angus were the best cattle on the market. Angus breeders respond to the negativity by stating the positives of the breed, not by bringing down other's cattle to make there cattle seem better. Instead of focusing on the negative, simply state where your particular breed does well. Let things stand on their own merits. That's what I teach my children, maybe adults should heed the same advice.

 

[vs_cattle]

Do you consider Angus Bashing - When One Tries to Rep His Breed?

 

[Oldtimer]

Question for Oldtimer.

You sad that you tried the continentals up to around the late seventies, and went back to the old fashioned angus and herefords. If you are still using angus and herefords, are these cattle the same as the cattle you had before you tried the continentals? Most people will say these cattle are not the same as they were in the early 60's. Its been over 25 years since you tried Sim, Lim, Char, these breeds have all changed too. Just curious if you had considered that.

CSM

No the cattle of the 50- 60's is not the same as those of today...Those in the 60's were smaller framed- with many of the cows weighing in the 800-1000 lb range...And as you can see with the angus and herefords of today this has changed drastically-- and in the minds of many, myself included, some went too far to the other side of the scale- trying to make them continentals...Its became almost a battle to keep a 6 or under frame score with angus...One that will not only feed and be a good beef product- but one that can thrive in some areas of the country....

While I know that the continentals have changed--and I have tried them again- even their improvements are still not worth the negatives to me...

The angus provide many proven seedstock suppliers-- with the greatest amount of progeny/seedstock info of any breed- and a big variation of types/bloodlines/disposition to choose from...In my immediate area there is 1 Char breeder sale, 1 limi/limi-angus cross breeder sale, 1 simmi/simmi-angus cross sale, 2 red angus breeders sales, and black 6 angus sales + numeous private treaty producers (and this is the case statewide)....I have a much broader choice of birthweight/frame size cattle that I want...And in fact now are currently aiming at more of the old Wye and Shoshone bloodlines to bring my cows back toward those cattle types of the 60's .... Problem is that in our country-where our average rainfall is 11 inches of rain-- there is only so much "groceries" within an acre/section of land- and some types of cattle don't seem to do as good as others, especially in dry years which is about every year...One of the problems I ran into with the continentals were that they needed more groceries than were available- and many times when they put it all into their calves, I had a rebreeding problem...See some of it now with the extremes some of the angus are going/have went to (+20, 30, 40 milk EPD's :roll: )...And the bigger cows took a bigger haystack to feed in the winter...

Two of the biggest complaints I had with the continental bulls was that I had many more calving problems with big calves--along with "dum" calves-- calves that in cold or nasty weather wouldn't survive on their own...With the angus I see the easiest calving "marketable" breed, with the most "vigor" at birth of any calves-- calves that will get up, be sucking in 5 minutes and live, even at temps of 20 below- while the crossbreds laid there and died...And the older I get- the easier I like it ;-)

And I'd just as soon have live 70lb calves as a bunch of dead 90lbers...

Then on the top of it- with the Continentals you were ending up with "rat tails" that the buyers didn't want-- horns and scurs--disposition problems, and just more effort than they were worth....
And don't ask me about my experience with Salers-- there is nothing that could ever convince me to ever have any of them... ;-) :lol:

 

[suscofa]

why not Salers? I have never seen one but would like to know why I should never own one.

 

[6M Ranch]

If you want to tell us the great things about your breed, that's not Angus bashing. Telling me that your breed "fill in the blank" is better than Angus, is bashing. All breeds, including Angus, are good in certain areas, not so good in others. Within each breed, there are animals that exceed the standard. These are individual animals, not a breed wide indicator. I don't think anyone, Angus breeders, other breeders, have enough information to state that top to bottom, this breed is better than that one. I could bash Angus, Charolais, Simmentals, Shorthorns and Maines based on my limited experience with each breed. But a small group of animals isn't an indicator of hundreds of thousands of animals within a breed. We've chosed Angus because they suit us. We also raise club calves. So on a limited basis, we're exposed to Maines, Simmentals and Shorthorns. Once again, these aren't indicative of those breeds. I could care less about your personal bias against Angus, Pieds, Highlands or any other breed. If I'm tired of it, I imagine the new people think we're a bunch of kids on the playground. If you have something specific, with facts about your breed, great. But "I hate Angus because they advertise, everybody thinks the beef is better, some breeders are happy raising Angus, they're going away in 10 years" or any other such personal attacks, just show your inability to carry on an intelligent conversation.

 

[VanC]

I also can't recall a single post where an Angus breeder stated that Angus were the best cattle on the market.

I have seen many such posts. Not saying they're right or wrong, but it has been said, one way or another, many times.

 

[mnmtranching]

Oldtimer, People are going to hear what they want.

I too have tried the continentals.

After trial and error, the Angus mammas and angus/X are what you are going to need, that is if you going to make a living raising cattle.

 

[handydandy]

After trial and error, the Angus mammas and angus/X are what you are going to need, that is if you going to make a living raising cattle.

To say you need angus or angusx cattle to make a living raising cattle is just foolish. I make a living raising commercial cattle and at most i have 10% angusx cattle in my herd. I'm not bashing them but I like my cows out working and not looking for shade or a pond.

 

[Oldtimer]

why not Salers? I have never seen one but would like to know why I should never own one.

When they were first brought into the country- they had the dispostion of a cross between an antelope and a grizzly bear... ;-) :lol:

Now right off the bat- for the Saler breeders- I understand they have made leaps in breeding better disposition- but I just haven't seen it yet...

My neighbors bought about 20-30 saler bulls from Leachmans 20-30 years ago-- those bulls could walk up to any 5 wire fence flat footed and clear it...They saw you coming from 3 miles away and they'd be off and running-- and if you got them cornered, they'd be running over you...I'd have to ride our cows daily to keep those bulls out-- but never had to get off your horse to open a gate- just get them headed for the fence and they'd be over it.... :lol:

Over the years I've had to work many bunchs of salers-- and it had to be either on horseback or from the top corral fence rail- as even the fall calves would try to run over you or kick you as they went by if you were on the ground....

Very very few around here anymore- mainly because of that problem and the fact that many buyers would't buy calves with the Saler influence due to them being so highstrung/nervous in the lots...

 

[mnmtranching]

Handydandy, not as foolish as saying BA are always looking for a cool place. Man! out in ND and MT and lots of places it's HOT and many MANY thousands of acres without a tree in sight.

Those BA cattle cows and bulls got to cover a lot of ground to feed then go a couple miles to water thats probably only a puddle or windmill.

I really do think that any good cow is a good cow, and I'm really not into "mine is the best thing"

But I like a little knowledge behind arguments.

 

[backhoeboogie]

After trial and error, the Angus mammas and angus/X are what you are going to need, that is if you going to make a living raising cattle.

To say you need angus or angusx cattle to make a living raising cattle is just foolish. I make a living raising commercial cattle and at most i have 10% angusx cattle in my herd. I'm not bashing them but I like my cows out working and not looking for shade or a pond.

Facts are simply facts. If you state the facts, some call it bashing. If I were to bash angus, first thing I would start with is mortality rates (50% in the last 3 years), then go to comparison of WW. But it is not fair to state MY statistics apply across the board. It is the climate that stacks the deck and not the breed. Plus on the mortality, my bull is brangus and not pure bred like the 3 cows.

Heck, when it gets above 100 degrees, shade trees are appealing to me as well.

Edit: On the bashing thing, look at all the comments made about LH's by folks who own none of that breed. I own some angus and have first hand knowledge. The ultimate bashing comes at the sale barn. That is where the proof is in the pudding. Most pounds and best price for your pasture is the profit. Dead calf is a dead loss.

 

[vs_cattle]

But "I hate Angus because they advertise, everybody thinks the beef is better, some breeders are happy raising Angus, they're going away in 10 years" or any other such personal attacks, just show your inability to carry on an intelligent conversation.

Shoot I wish Charolais had an advertising stradegy like Angus ( But I dont hate Angus or Angus Breeders for that), I dont think everyone thinks the beef is better (its the marketing), They're going away in 10 years I would never wish that on some one( I do think Angus wont be on top for the next 10-20 yrs) but those are all my opinions ;-)

 

[CSM]

Oldtimer

You mentioned the Shoshone bloodlines, there is a breeder in KY that line breeds with this bloodline. Seems to have done very well for him over the years.

Thanks for replying to my questions,
CSM

 

[Oldtimer]

Oldtimer

You mentioned the Shoshone bloodlines, there is a breeder in KY that line breeds with this bloodline. Seems to have done very well for him over the years.

Thanks for replying to my questions,
CSM

Would that be Mike Keeney? Yeah-- I bought some 6807 bulls, was impressed at the calves I've been getting...Born weighing 70lbs in March-- 600lb chunks in October....Would really like to get a couple bulls from Diamond D Angus this year- but they are getting awful pricey...I have a local fellow thats got much of the same blood lines that he's been raising for years- that I'm going to look at this winter.....Wanted to buy some from him before, but by the time I got there he didn't have much left...

 

[BAGTIC]

Could it be that a 'hobby breed' is any breed that is routinely sold by the animal rather than by the pound?

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

like panda cattle. I agree that by definition, bagtic is right. name a breed that fits that definition and there is your hobby breed.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Could it be that a 'hobby breed' is any breed that is routinely sold by the animal rather than by the pound?

Suppose that is one definition. However, I seriously doubt that seedstock producers of registered animals (of any species or breed) sell their breeding stock "by the pound".

Additionally, there are many producers of so-called "hobby breeds" that run hundreds of animals on their ranches; and, probably only sell their culls "by the pound".

In jest... ;-) Pot loads of cookie cutter duplicated animals...by the pound...