What happens when...

[3waycross]

Playing the devils advocate: If black herefords arent; a breed then neither are brangus, beefmaster, gerts etc.
Persoanly where I run into problems with black herefords is the use of the word Hereford in their name. That's akin to calling them white faced Angus or gert long eared Shorthorns.

If they reach a point where they are genetically 94% Hereford then why not just call them Herefords. The GV assn and the Sim assn do not differentiate they just call them by their breed name.
As far as Caustics assertion that the Hereford assn doesn't recognize them or want them I bet that if they are proven solve some inherent problems with the breed then we may see the day. One thing is for sure the market wants them. If they are 51% blk hided and meet all other criteria there is not a packer in america who won't stick em in a box with a well known brand name on it. Until we reach the point where we have total source verification that is.

 

[dun]

Playing the devils advocate: If black herefords arent; a breed then neither are brangus, beefmaster, gerts etc.
Persoanly where I run into problems with black herefords is the use of the word Hereford in their name. That's akin to calling them white faced Angus or gert long eared Shorthorns.

If they reach a point where they are genetically 94% Hereford then why not just call them Herefords. The GV assn and the Sim assn do not differentiate they just call them by their breed name.
As far as Caustics assertion that the Hereford assn doesn't recognize them or want them I bet that if they are proven solve some inherent problems with the breed then we may see the day. One thing is for sure the market wants them. If they are 51% blk hided and meet all other criteria there is not a packer in america who won't stick em in a box with a well known brand name on it. Until we reach the point where we have total source verification that is.

The AHA is and will stay line the angus association. They won;t allow reds (the idiots) and the AHA won;t allow blacks. There about (and maybe the) the only associations that don;t allow breeding up.

 

[TexasBred]

Well, if you go by looks alone, there are quite a few of what looks like these so-called Black Herefords in my neck of the woods and for someone who is a 'newbie' they would think that's what they were looking at. In my pasture I have one, that is marked similar to hereford but black and white. I know her breeding cause I raised her here from my old grandma cow and our last bull.

Got a neighbor has 2, that are Holstien X Blk baldy. Another neighbor has 3 that are Shorthorn X Baldy. A friend of ours has one that is Brahma/Angus X Baldy.
We (around my neck of the woods) just see a mix-breed that's black with the white markings of a Hereford.

I agree, call me an idiot, that calling them Black Herefords is decieving.

Katherine

http://www.jnranch.net/

 

[Caustic Burno]

Playing the devils advocate: If black herefords arent; a breed then neither are brangus, beefmaster, gerts etc.
Persoanly where I run into problems with black herefords is the use of the word Hereford in their name. That's akin to calling them white faced Angus or gert long eared Shorthorns.

If they reach a point where they are genetically 94% Hereford then why not just call them Herefords. The GV assn and the Sim assn do not differentiate they just call them by their breed name.
As far as Caustics assertion that the Hereford assn doesn't recognize them or want them I bet that if they are proven solve some inherent problems with the breed then we may see the day. One thing is for sure the market wants them. If they are 51% blk hided and meet all other criteria there is not a packer in america who won't stick em in a box with a well known brand name on it. Until we reach the point where we have total source verification that is.

It is not a new composite breed that is the problem. The problem is trying to call them something they are not.
There are no black GV's, Simm's Limm's or whatever that is a composite Angus. The Brangus Beefmaster and Gert people at least never tried to sell us a bill of good's and represent the cattle as something they are not. They are a composite breed. The DNA of the foundation cattle is always going to be there it doesn't majically disappear. Today you can walk through a herd of Brangus and there will be those cattle showing more Brahman than Angus. We have screwed up dang near every breed gene pool with Angus genetic's. You can call them what you want to, there is Angus DNA in the woodpile that is never going away. That is like saying we bred all the Angus out of them but the black :lol2: :lol2:
The American cattleman has rode Angus coat tails trying to get a premium versus to bring their breed up.
The Angus Assc has flat out beat us in marketing so to compensate we have dang near screwed up every breed on earth.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Dun the Chianina association has gotten so bad you can drive down the road with a Chianina bull in the trailer and register everything in the pasture's you drive by . Money for them registration fee's work's wonders.

 

[VanC]

The reason I've seen most for using Black Herefords is simply for the black hide. Use a homozygous Black Hereford bull on Angus cows and you will get all black baldies. Use a red Hereford bull and you will usually get some red baldies, too. For that matter if you use the Black Hereford on Red Angus cows you will get all black baldies whereas a red Hereford bull would give you all red baldies. Of course the heterosis will be reduced because the black bull would have some Angus in him, but they say the premium you get for the black hide vs. the red hide would offset that. I don't know, I'm just telling you what they're telling me.

Personally, I don't really care but, like it or not, Black Herefords do exist, and they are recognized as a separate breed. I do agree that they should call themselves something else since they are a separate breed from Herefords. I suppose the same could be said of Red Angus since they are a separate breed from Angus, but what the heck. I don't know anything about copyright law but apparently the names Hereford and Angus were never trademarked so other breeds can use them.

Anyway, it's been a long, tiring day and I'm staring at another 10-11 hr work day tomorrow, so I'm off to bed. Good night, everyone.

 

[3waycross]

The reason I've seen most for using Black Herefords is simply for the black hide. Use a homozygous Black Hereford bull on Angus cows and you will get all black baldies. Use a red Hereford bull and you will usually get some red baldies, too. For that matter if you use the Black Hereford on Red Angus cows you will get all black baldies whereas a red Hereford bull would give you all red baldies. Of course the heterosis will be reduced because the black bull would have some Angus in him, but they say the premium you get for the black hide vs. the red hide would offset that. I don't know, I'm just telling you what they're telling me.

Personally, I don't really care but, like it or not, Black Herefords do exist, and they are recognized as a separate breed. I do agree that they should call themselves something else since they are a separate breed from Herefords. I suppose the same could be said of Red Angus since they are a separate breed from Angus, but what the heck. I don't know anything about copyright law but apparently the names Hereford and Angus were never trademarked so other breeds can use them.

Anyway, it's been a long, tiring day and I'm staring at another 10-11 hr work day tomorrow, so I'm off to bed. Good night, everyone.

Only if you believe the BLACK ANGUS Assn's bulshyt. They all sprang from the same place. The same is not true of the Blk Herefords they were created.

 

[Craig]

:compute: :drink: :drink: :drink: And on the seventh day the Lord rested. Having given man a reason for endless debate,marketability, and consumer satisfaction under the angus label. :hide: It was from this day forth, Hereford, red or black would live in infamy. Or so I've read. :clap: :lol2: :tiphat:

So the best way to make Herefords that look like Angus with white faces and bellies is to do what? :lol:

 

[SRBeef]

If you take a Black Hereford steer to the sale barn and it gets a "premium" for the black hide that must be because it will be sold as "Angus" beef? I doubt the sign out front of the restaurant will say "serving Black Hereford beef"....Or will the price list at the fast food place charge a premium for "Black Hereford Burgers". The fact is a registered Black Hereford is being passed of as an Angus steer. That is a lie isn't it? Or is a "Black Hereford" really an "Angus" steer??? if so then why call him a "Black Hereford"?

Sooner or later the black hide charade game is going to end...truth comes out eventually. A sales gimmick is a sales gimmick.

I am NOT criticizing true Angus beef, just the idea that a black hide is automatically worth a premium regardless of what's really under that hide.

jmho.

Jim

 

[Isomade]

If you take a Black Hereford steer to the sale barn and it gets a "premium" for the black hide that must be because it will be sold as "Angus" beef? I doubt the sign out front of the restaurant will say "serving Black Hereford beef"....Or will the price list at the fast food place charge a premium for "Black Hereford Burgers"

Sooner or later the black hide charade game is going to end...truth comes out eventually.

jmho.

Jim

Jim I have a pasture full of black hided cattle, and even now own some black hided bulls, but I ain't attached to a color or to any breed. I have to agree with you, the black hide premium will eventually end, I just don't know when that may be. Is it 5 years or 50 years?

 

[SRBeef]

If you take a Black Hereford steer to the sale barn and it gets a "premium" for the black hide that must be because it will be sold as "Angus" beef? I doubt the sign out front of the restaurant will say "serving Black Hereford beef"....Or will the price list at the fast food place charge a premium for "Black Hereford Burgers"

Sooner or later the black hide charade game is going to end...truth comes out eventually.

jmho.

Jim

Jim I have a pasture full of black hided cattle, and even now own some black hided bulls, but I ain't attached to a color or to any breed. I have to agree with you, the black hide premium will eventually end, I just don't know when that may be. Is it 5 years or 50 years?

Iso, I added something to my post after you copied it - I do NOT mean any criticism of true Angus beef. What I am very perplexed by is how the idea got so widely perpetrated that a black hide in itself is worth a premium. As I understand it if a steer is 51% Angus the other 49% can be alley cat and it can still be sold as CAB? Or am I wrong?

I don't sell at the sale barn - largely for this reason - so not any skin off my back. I will not sell the cattle I have worked so hard on at a discount to a similar steer just because of color.

In fact I have been told the slaughter folks LIKE Herefords because the thicker hides (than most blacks) bring them more money....

We will see if the more sophisticated consumers of the future buy into this color stuff.

Again not criticizing Angus, just the premium based on color alone.

Jim

 

[Isomade]

I knew what you ment, and I agree. There is a premium for a black hide, I just don't know when that will end. A calf does not need any Angus in it to receive the premium. The only reason my cattle are black is that premium. Even though I run Char bulls I still need the calf to have a black nose, the black nose is worth an extra nickel a pound to me.

 

[SRBeef]

...the black nose is worth an extra nickel a pound to me.

Case in point!!!

I am glad you understood - I did not mean criticism at all. Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate your honesty.

Jim

 

[Caustic Burno]

The Angus people did a superior job in marketing their cattle. When Cab began if you wanted balck calves you had to have an Angus bull. This was the downfall of most breeds IMO injecting Angus DNA for black hide. We have turned the beef industry in this country into a septic tank on Angus genetics. Snake oil sales at the best, when most American consumers wouldn't know the difference in a steak from a water buffalo or an Angus.
After destocking due to health and drought and no longer being a seedstock producer. I too have an Angus bull to collect a premium for black hair.
I will never run Angus cow's as I dislike the breed that's an opinion and they are like buttholes everybody has one.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you take a Black Hereford steer to the sale barn and it gets a "premium" for the black hide that must be because it will be sold as "Angus" beef? I doubt the sign out front of the restaurant will say "serving Black Hereford beef"....Or will the price list at the fast food place charge a premium for "Black Hereford Burgers"

Sooner or later the black hide charade game is going to end...truth comes out eventually.

jmho.

Jim

Jim I have a pasture full of black hided cattle, and even now own some black hided bulls, but I ain't attached to a color or to any breed. I have to agree with you, the black hide premium will eventually end, I just don't know when that may be. Is it 5 years or 50 years?

maybe now when 400 pnd dinks or bringing $800.00 ..perfect time to raise what you like

 

[djinwa]

I'm a one song singer, so here goes again.

I keep reading of people going black to get more money, but then I read of heat stress from black hided animals in hot climates causing reduced profits.
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

Has anyone quantified the amount of money lost due to heat stress from a black hide, and determine if it's more than the money gained?

I wonder also if the premium for black hides will end when feeders experience too much death loss from black cattle in feedlots, or when there is consumer pressure to reduce feedlot deaths and improve animal welfare.

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Cattlemen ... 0study.pdf

Producers with the nonshaded
lots reported highest death loss in dark-hided
cattle. Thirty out of 36 producers indicated higher death
loss in black cattle and the other six producers
indicated higher death loss with red cattle and had no
black cattle on feed. One producer indicated only 20%
of the cattle in the pen were black, but 80% of the
death loss was black cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

That is why that 30% of the U.S. cow herd is Brahman influenced and they are in the south.