What happens when...

[Craig]

...you put a Angus bull on Hereford cows? Do you end up with baldies, or brockell faced calves? Do they usually have the white bellies also? Trying to figure out how you get "Black Herefords".

 

[Caustic Burno]

...you put a Angus bull on Hereford cows? Do you end up with baldies, or brockell faced calves? Do they usually have the white bellies also? Trying to figure out how you get "Black Herefords".

Come out with both ways at least in my pasture. There is no such thing as a black hereford they are not a recognized breed by the AHA.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Sorry Caustic but you might want to take a look at this: http://www.blackhereford.com/

Craig, you're just going to get F1 Angus-Hereford calves, not black herefords with that sort of cross. You have just as much a chance of getting brockle-faced calves from an Angus-Hereford as you would Hereford-Angus.

I believe Black Hereford is a cross of 3/8 Angus and 5/8 Hereford. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Sorry Caustic but you might want to take a look at this: http://www.blackhereford.com/

Craig, you're just going to get F1 Angus-Hereford calves, not black herefords with that sort of cross. You have just as much a chance of getting brockle-faced calves from an Angus-Hereford as you would Hereford-Angus.

I believe Black Hereford is a cross of 3/8 Angus and 5/8 Hereford. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry that is not the AHA that is an association started in a garage to make money

 

[IluvABbeef]

Still it doesn't give merit to say they don't exist even if they're not recognized by the AHA, FWIW. Just sayin.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Still it doesn't give merit to say they don't exist even if they're not recognized by the AHA, FWIW. Just sayin.

There is no such thing as a black Hereford that is why the American Hereford Assc. doesn't recognize them.
They refuse to enter into the septic tank of Angus crossbred cattle and call it a breed as so many other association's.
Someone is trying to sell the fisherman a better fishing lure. I have pasture full of black hereford's or whiteface angus.
Take that and a roll of toliet paper and there papers are as good as any you would get on a "Black Hereford"

 

[IluvABbeef]

I stand corrected then. I guess that's why the motto for the ABHA is "Hereford Heterosis without Hereford Discounts."

 

[Alan]

There is no such thing as black Herefords, they are as much a breed as black baldies. Someone just need to start the American Black Baldy Association (ABBA)...... wait at the risk of using an old mod name again I think we covered this ground before.

Black Hereford is a gimmick with a black hide.

Alan- polled Hereford breeder and eater.

 

[Herefords.US]

Contrary to what some others are saying, there is a breed of cattle called Black Herefords. They have their own registry, a separate entity from the AHA, with their own rules for entry into the registry. Black Angus cattle were initially used to fix the black color and now a breeding up process is occurring where they are becoming more and more Hereford in percentage. A "purebred" Black Hereford is at least 7/8ths Hereford blood and black in color. See the rules below taken from the American Black hereford Association website at: http://blackhereford.com/


RULE 2.2 Eligibility for Registration
Black Hereford animals of any age for which application for registration is made may be registered
with the Association upon proof of compliance with the following requirements:
A. The animal must be a Black Hereford, as determined under the Rules of the
Association.
1. Therefore, a bull or cow must EITHER:
a.) Have an ABHA registered sire and a American Hereford
Association registered dam which is free of genetic defects.
OR
b.) Have both ABHA registered sire and dam.
OR
c.) Be the product of a paring described in a.) which was not eligable
to register due to hair color and an ABHA registered sire.
OR
d.) Be an American Hereford Association sire approved for
admission by a 2/3 vote of the ABHA pursuant to Article II of the
By-Laws. OR
e.) Be the product of an ABHA sire and a F1 dam whose parentage
is registered and free of genetic defects in the American Angus
Association and the American Hereford Association.
2. A bull must have two, well-descended, testicles in order to be eligible for
acceptance into the Registry.
3. A bull, cow or steer must have black hair color.
B. Percentage Bloodlines. All bulls, females and steers for which application for
registration is made shall be classified as 62.5% or greater registered Hereford, be
black in color, and must be sired by a bull registered in the ABHA.
C. Purebred Bloodlines. Bulls and cows shall be classified as a purebred Black
Hereford if they are 87.5% hereford and black in color

 

[Caustic Burno]

The true idiocy here is you are giving up growth and hybred vigor on what cattlemen have been doing for years.
For what to pay an Association for papers in a very very small gene pool of "purebred" cattle when have literally thousands times thousands of the finest Angus and hereford bulls in the world to select.

"What Determines theLevel of Heterosis?
The level of heterosis is determined by the degree of
genetic difference between the parent breeds. From a practical
standpoint, this means that the greater the difference between
two breeds, the greater the hybrid vigor exhibited by the cross.
A cross between an Angus and a Brahman gives more hybrid
vigor than a cross between an Angus and a Hereford. This also
explains why a 3/4 Angus, 1/4 Hereford will exhibit less hybrid
vigor than a 1/2 Angus, 1/2 Hereford — more of the genetic
material is different in a combination of 1/2, 1/2 than in 3/4, 1/4.
A crossbred that is 1/2 of breed A and 1/2 of breed B will
exhibit 100 percent of the possible heterosis, while a crossbred that
is 3/4 breed A and 1/4 breed B should exhibit 50 percent of the
possible heterosis between breeds A and B."

 

[JSCATTLE]

Just because someone spent the money to start a registry doesn't make them Herefords . I could cross a German shepherd and a lab . But that don't make it a pure bred German lab. It's like saying cherry coke is coke . It's not .

 

[Caustic Burno]

Just because someone spent the money to start a registry doesn't make them Herefords . I could cross a German shepherd and a lab . But that don't make it a pure bred German lab. It's like saying cherry coke is coke . It's not .

JSC you could hop in the truck and drive about 40 miles north and I will let you have the pick of any of F-1 Angus/Hereford bull calves in the pasture. I will triple salebarn price so you will feel good about your White Faced Angus when you try to :bs: the cattlemen in your area. These are far superior to Black Hereford's as there is Angus in the name. There regisration papers come in roll form so it actually has some value to the cattleman. Papers can be replaced at anytime for a nominal fee plus shipping and handling of course.
The papers are labeled True Grit to again impress your friends and each sheet is guaranteed
to be Rough and Tough and not take shyt off anyone.

 

[VanC]

Still it doesn't give merit to say they don't exist even if they're not recognized by the AHA, FWIW. Just sayin.

You're right, Karin. No one is saying Black Herefords are Herefords, so it doesn't matter if the AHA recognizes them or not. They are a seperate breed with their own registry guidelines. Saying they aren't a breed because the AHA doesn't recognize them is like saying Red Angus isn't a breed because the American Angus Assoc doesn't recognize them. The people that started Black Herefords are simply doing the same thing others did when they started breeding for black Simms, Gelbviehs, Limis, etc. Those are now widely accepted and I'm guessing Black Herefords will be some day, too. The fact that some people don't like them and call them a gimmick won't change that.

http://www.blackhereford.com/about.html

 

[Caustic Burno]

The AHA will never accept them Hereford Breeders are not looking for dilution or black hair.
If they do I will buy you a steak dinner.

 

[dun]

Playing the devils advocate: If black herefords arent; a breed then neither are brangus, beefmaster, gerts etc.
Persoanly where I run into problems with black herefords is the use of the word Hereford in their name. That's akin to calling them white faced Angus or gert long eared Shorthorns.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Playing the devils advocate: If black herefords arent; a breed then neither are brangus, beefmaster, gerts etc.
Persoanly where I run into problems with black herefords is the use of the word Hereford in their name. That's akin to calling them white faced Angus or gert long eared Shorthorns.

Where I run to problems Dun there is absolutely no advantage to the "breed" . Brangus was developed to introduce heat tolerance and insect resistance while picking up some of the better Angus qualities. Gert's were developed along the same reason's to improve carcass quality while retaining Brahman benifit's the same as Beefmasters . None were breed for a black hide trying to dupe the public. These are all composite's that have been standardized to breed true.
There is absolutely no advantage to crossing Angus and Hereford than the hybred vigor of the F-1 cross and that is almost the least hybred vigor you can get out of all crossbreeding. Why would you breed that out to get a black cow. Run Angus if you want black good cattle and came off the same rock as Hereford.

 

[randiliana]

I stand corrected then. I guess that's why the motto for the ABHA is "Hereford Heterosis without Hereford Discounts."

This is an interesting motto. Cause around here the buyers want the 'Black Herefords' (Black cattle with hereford markings) sorted off. And, they get discounted about as much as the red Herefords do....

 

[IluvABbeef]

Playing the devils advocate: If black herefords arent; a breed then neither are brangus, beefmaster, gerts etc.
Persoanly where I run into problems with black herefords is the use of the word Hereford in their name. That's akin to calling them white faced Angus or gert long eared Shorthorns.

Where I run to problems Dun there is absolutely no advantage to the "breed" . Brangus was developed to introduce heat tolerance and insect resistance while picking up some of the better Angus qualities. Gert's were developed along the same reason's to improve carcass quality while retaining Brahman benifit's the same as Beefmasters . None were breed for a black hide trying to dupe the public. These are all composite's that have been standardized to breed true.
There is absolutely no advantage to crossing Angus and Hereford than the hybred vigor of the F-1 cross and that is almost the least hybred vigor you can get out of all crossbreeding. Why would you breed that out to get a black cow. Run Angus if you want black good cattle and came off the same rock as Hereford.

You know, I just wonder if this breed (or "breed" as you call it) wasn't created out of the fact that some cattlemen liked the look of these animals and didn't want the inconsistency that comes from a typical F1 Angus-Hereford x F1 Angus-Hereford cross. And it likely didn't matter to them if the Real Hereford breeders weren't looking for this type of animal; they just wanted a breed that had a unique look and possibly had the hybrid vigour when crossed with Continentals.

Still, since it isn't recognized by the AHA, the least they could've done was take out the hereford part of the name and simply called them Black Baldies. (But then that'd probably lead to another source of dissent and confusion to those who call F1 Herf-Angus black baldies).

So I digress. :cowboy:

 

[JSCATTLE]

Probably wouldn't make as many people up set if they would have named them something else but they are implying they are Hereford cattle with black instead of red .

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Well, if you go by looks alone, there are quite a few of what looks like these so-called Black Herefords in my neck of the woods and for someone who is a 'newbie' they would think that's what they were looking at. In my pasture I have one, that is marked similar to hereford but black and white. I know her breeding cause I raised her here from my old grandma cow and our last bull.

Got a neighbor has 2, that are Holstien X Blk baldy. Another neighbor has 3 that are Shorthorn X Baldy. A friend of ours has one that is Brahma/Angus X Baldy.
We (around my neck of the woods) just see a mix-breed that's black with the white markings of a Hereford.

I agree, call me an idiot, that calling them Black Herefords is decieving.

Katherine