What do you do when cows show no signs of heat off of cidrs? I know you fixed time AI, but odds off them settling to that in my experience is nill. Wait em out for signs of heat? Wait it out for 21 days? Go back with lute in 10 days? Just curious what others experiences are.
What do you do when cidrs didn't work?
- Thread starter Craig
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Till-Hill
Well-known member
Cidrs I would breed them. I intend them for TAI tho. Cidr+gnrh Monday lute Sunday pull Monday and breed Wednesday 72 hrs after lute. Works excellent. Never had cow in heat last year and stuck 11/12
pdfangus
Well-known member
Till-Hill":2nordyav said:
I would agree ......
I had good luck with this protocol....never got 11/12 but have gone 8/10 a few times....a lot of them never showed heat....
I used to sync without cidrs and bred the ones that showed heat....then I would resync the non responders and breed them on time and got as good or better conceptions and they often never showed heat...
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Synched with CIDRs and TAIed a couple of times. Got dismal conception rates - well under 50%. Won't do it any more. Have to see 'em in heat before I'll stick a straw of semen in 'em.
Synched 24 head 3 weeks ago. Would have missed most of them if we'd TAIed - some were in heat at 36 hrs, some all the way out to 96. 8 didn't cycle at all; pulled them back in at 14 days, and hit 'em with another dose of Estrumate - only two cycled. Turned everything except the three virgin heifers(one cycled on the first synch, and has not returned to estrus) out to the bull this morning.
Getting too hot for me to be doing AI now.
Synched 24 head 3 weeks ago. Would have missed most of them if we'd TAIed - some were in heat at 36 hrs, some all the way out to 96. 8 didn't cycle at all; pulled them back in at 14 days, and hit 'em with another dose of Estrumate - only two cycled. Turned everything except the three virgin heifers(one cycled on the first synch, and has not returned to estrus) out to the bull this morning.
Getting too hot for me to be doing AI now.
Dave
Well-known member
I did the timed breeding at 54 hours after pulling the CIDR's. 48 hours later I turn in the bulls. Last year the bulls stood around with nothing to do for 3 weeks. This year there was a heifer in heat when I turned the bulls in and at least two more within a week.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
milkmaid,
That's the deal with mine - most were at least 60 days post-partum; had not specifically seen them cycling - we do rotational grazing, with moves daily or sometimes twice daily - and usually, when they move, they're all about EATING, not mounting.
Last year - same group of cows, same time frame, we got 80% conception rate on 1 AI service on synchronized cows - bred on observed heats.
This year, not so good; glad we weren't doing that progeny-test breeding trial THIS year. Have seen 3 of the cows that we AIed return to heat this week - and one of those that I injected with Estrumate last week, was in heat yesterday - 7+ days out from when she got her injection - but, she was the last thing to calve this spring - 6 weeks behind everything else. May have been her first estrus cycle, and the pgf2 may have had no effect whatsoever.
That's the deal with mine - most were at least 60 days post-partum; had not specifically seen them cycling - we do rotational grazing, with moves daily or sometimes twice daily - and usually, when they move, they're all about EATING, not mounting.
Last year - same group of cows, same time frame, we got 80% conception rate on 1 AI service on synchronized cows - bred on observed heats.
This year, not so good; glad we weren't doing that progeny-test breeding trial THIS year. Have seen 3 of the cows that we AIed return to heat this week - and one of those that I injected with Estrumate last week, was in heat yesterday - 7+ days out from when she got her injection - but, she was the last thing to calve this spring - 6 weeks behind everything else. May have been her first estrus cycle, and the pgf2 may have had no effect whatsoever.
regolith
Well-known member
milkmaid":3305s1ze said:
We use these same protocols on non-cycling dairy cows. The vets claim around 40% conception rate to synch + AI and nearly all of the remaining 60% should cycle naturally three weeks after the initial synch.
I don't get conception rates that good from synchronising non-cyclers so I don't bother doing it. Part of the issue according to the vets is that I won't use a CIDR because I don't think the level of discomfort to the cow is justified... they reckon the CIDR can add 10%, but everything has dropped a couple of percent since estradiol was banned from synch potocols.
regolith
Well-known member
Cheap semen is a huge advantage... I really don't worry too much about wasting a straw when the contents of my bank probably average $16 - $20 and it's quite possible to pick up semen for under $10, and not trash bulls either (though they're probably young and unproven at that price). Some breed associations will almost give semen away just to get progeny test information back.
Last couple times I did synch and TAI conception rates were in the 25 - 30% range.
Last couple times I did synch and TAI conception rates were in the 25 - 30% range.
cow pollinater
Well-known member
I almost never see cattle in heat when I breed TAI cows. You just have to trust it. A cidr adds a lot of trust for me. There are two ways to handle your situation. 1. trust that they're in heat and breed the cow and hope for the best and maybe get a calf or two. 2. Stand there and do nothing because you're not convinced and get nothing.
Fridays are always my busy day on the route. Today I bred just shy of two hundred and probably one twenty of them were TIA WITHOUT cidrs and only about five showed estrus. If we never followed through with the final shot I'd probably see half of those cows in heat within the next few days but the point of TAI is to get a shot at EVERY cow.
Fridays are always my busy day on the route. Today I bred just shy of two hundred and probably one twenty of them were TIA WITHOUT cidrs and only about five showed estrus. If we never followed through with the final shot I'd probably see half of those cows in heat within the next few days but the point of TAI is to get a shot at EVERY cow.
Craig
Well-known member
CP I was hoping you'd chime in. I see your point and I agree in regards to dairy cows or large beef herds. You have to try when large numbers are involved. Personally I seem to have poor results with fixed timed AI in the beef herds I service. We ultrasound at 30-35 days post AI, it seems almost without fail that the non responders end up being open. Maybe it's just me. Since I have not AI'd these two, what should I do now? Wait them out for 21 days, give lute ten days after cidr removal, try another cidr?
Cidrs were pulled a week ago, still no signs of heat.
Cidrs were pulled a week ago, still no signs of heat.
cow pollinater
Well-known member
If you have more cidrs or stored the ones you pulled, put them back in and then on day fourteen since you pulled them the first time, pull them again and lute but this time follow it up with gnrh and semen. 
We do the tai give gnrh shot 12 hours before breeding and then if they don't show a standing heat we breed them 12 hours later. So like today I gave fertagyl at 7:30 am we are going to breed at 7:30 pm and the ones that aren't standing will get bred tomorrow morning at 7:30 am. We started doing this 3 years ago and have yet to have one come up open.
