We'll never have a good discussion

[Bestoutwest]

If a dog bites once it will do so again that is common sense.

How do you know that? Now don't go thinking I'm a bleeding heart that thinks every dog deserves and chance and blah, blah, blah. I think pitbulls should be outlawed. I have a hard time with police being fired for shooting and unruly dog. However, just b/c a dog bites once doesn't mean that it's going to again. There's so many mitigating factors that's it's impossible to say with impunity that it will happen again.

 

[Bestoutwest]

We'll never have a good discussion...as long as people are restricted or rigid in their views, and unreceptive to another persons ideas/views...

You hit the nail squarely on the head. Bravo!

 

[ga.prime]

Reach out and touch somebody's hand maybe, but reaching out to a snarling dog is ill advised.

 

[wlamarparmer]

This my opinion, nothing more or less.
1. I don't call forum dictatorship, it's ownership, owner should be able to set parameters,
restrictions, liberties. Those don't agree start Your own and establish guidelines as You wish.

2. Dog bites- Dealt with that issue for 40+ years. There are no hard/fast rules. You are dealing with
living organism, even though they fall into Pavlov's predictions/parameters. You can't always plug a + b and expect c. Don't agree with the 1 free bite issue, breed issue, all should be judged individually. My Dad died '74 and left 3 great field trial beagles. I chose to take same, 2 of 3 adjusted to being pets, # 3 snapped 5 yr old girl on cheek. It was provoked with no legal repercussions, however this lady will die with a scar on her cheek. I chose to find another home for this dog, she spent remainder her life in country running rabbits any and every day she wanted. Did I do right on this, I have no clue, but except for the young lady I feel I made the right decision.

3. I lurk/look/read more on this site than sign in and respond. I enjoy and respect most poster on this forum, but sometimes it begins to seem like little boys pi**ing contest. Seldom do I see an "OK maybe You're right", appears most my way or no way. Lost people on here I respect/admire, just get little tired of the propensity to consistently dig the other guy. Yeah true I could choose not to come here, but I enjoy reading the cattle forums as well as the "off subject" forums. Just felt had to add my 2 cents. Bash if You wish, I will probably get up in the morning, and probably be back on here reading.

W. Lamar Parmer, DVM

 

[Nesikep]

If a dog bites once it will do so again that is common sense.

How do you know that? Now don't go thinking I'm a bleeding heart that thinks every dog deserves and chance and blah, blah, blah. I think pitbulls should be outlawed. I have a hard time with police being fired for shooting and unruly dog. However, just b/c a dog bites once doesn't mean that it's going to again. There's so many mitigating factors that's it's impossible to say with impunity that it will happen again.

My friend has a pit bull, and he's one of the best dogs you could ask for, he's 16 years old now. He takes care of all the baby animals on the farm that are orphaned, piggies, lambs, kittens, etc.. When I went to visit him at his place for the first time, I used common sense, yes, he was barking at the gate, I phoned my friend and told him I had arrived, friend came and told Bobo I was a friend, and all was well. My friend is very good at training dogs, and doesn't put up with crap from them. Would that dog bite if I barged in as a stranger? probably!
Way back when, my childhood friend had a Doberman, again, one of the best dogs I've ever known. Yes, there may be predispositions in breeds, but a lot of the problem with pit bulls is the owners have them because of their predisposition, and REINFORCE it.

I've always said you can tell a lot about the owner by the way their dog behaves.. I have no use for dogs that jump up on people, stuff their nose in your crotch, bark and chase every vehicle that goes by, etc..
My cows know what is dangerous and is worth raising a fuss about (grizzly bears, cougars, eagles), but a black bear on the hill or the yote or deer passing through is no cause for alarm (Keep an eye on it and watch what it does).
If dogs are so smart, they ought to figure that out too

We'll never have a good discussion...as long as people are restricted or rigid in their views, and unreceptive to another persons ideas/views...

Well said!

 

[callmefence]

This my opinion, nothing more or less.
1. I don't call forum dictatorship, it's ownership, owner should be able to set parameters,
restrictions, liberties. Those don't agree start Your own and establish guidelines as You wish.

2. Dog bites- Dealt with that issue for 40+ years. There are no hard/fast rules. You are dealing with
living organism, even though they fall into Pavlov's predictions/parameters. You can't always plug a + b and expect c. Don't agree with the 1 free bite issue, breed issue, all should be judged individually. My Dad died '74 and left 3 great field trial beagles. I chose to take same, 2 of 3 adjusted to being pets, # 3 snapped 5 yr old girl on cheek. It was provoked with no legal repercussions, however this lady will die with a scar on her cheek. I chose to find another home for this dog, she spent remainder her life in country running rabbits any and every day she wanted. Did I do right on this, I have no clue, but except for the young lady I feel I made the right decision.

3. I lurk/look/read more on this site than sign in and respond. I enjoy and respect most poster on this forum, but sometimes it begins to seem like little boys pi**ing contest. Seldom do I see an "OK maybe You're right", appears most my way or no way. Lost people on here I respect/admire, just get little tired of the propensity to consistently dig the other guy. Yeah true I could choose not to come here, but I enjoy reading the cattle forums as well as the "off subject" forums. Just felt had to add my 2 cents. Bash if You wish, I will probably get up in the morning, and probably be back on here reading.

W. Lamar Parmer, DVM

I agree, the forum is private property and can be managed anyway the moderators see fit.
....Even if their hypocrites

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm not upset/disappointed in the answers that I got. If you look at my original post, I welcomed all sides of the issue. I don't care if people shoot their pets. If that is their solution to a problem, then more power to them. It's their animal, and their shells. It's just become painfully obvious to me, that we will never have an intelligent discussion here. It will always deteriorate in to some kind of idiotic clash of clans. There is really no point to even trying to join in a debate.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

It's just become painfully obvious to me, that we will never have an intelligent discussion here. It will always deteriorate in to some kind of idiotic clash of clans. There is really no point to even trying to join in a debate.

I respectfully disagree. If I recall correctly, there were 2 recent conversations, very good ones actually, that were begun by you. One about the kids and the rodeo schedules and another about "interference" by grand parents. Those discussions seemed to be civilized and, well, good conversations. Unless there were more things said, that went awry, that I didn't read.

I will agree, however, that when certain subjects are discussed, things can get heated, and people have some pretty strong convictions on some issues, and their opinions very strong and not likely to change.

As for the dog issue, it is a bit of a pickle. The situation being what it was, I see why the dog took a bite of the lady. Clearly she did not understand "dog" language. It may not be problem in the future, it might be, only time will tell.

 

[Bigfoot]

It's just become painfully obvious to me, that we will never have an intelligent discussion here. It will always deteriorate in to some kind of idiotic clash of clans. There is really no point to even trying to join in a debate.

I respectfully disagree. If I recall correctly, there were 2 recent conversations, very good ones actually, that were begun by you. One about the kids and the rodeo schedules and another about "interference" by grand parents. Those discussions seemed to be civilized and, well, good conversations. Unless there were more things said, that went awry, that I didn't read.

I will agree, however, that when certain subjects are discussed, things can get heated, and people have some pretty strong convictions on some issues, and their opinions very strong and not likely to change.

As for the dog issue, it is a bit of a pickle. The situation being what it was, I see why the dog took a bite of the lady. Clearly she did not understand "dog" language. It may not be problem in the future, it might be, only time will tell.

Here s why we have debate. Your right. those discussions were civil, and found a resolution.

 

[skyhightree1]

I would like to add there is good discussions there is just some bad people involved with good discussions that ruin it.They get carried away and go overboard with their views. Many of those folks complaining about how the site is run also complain about the gov't and media forcing stuff down their throats. Many of those folks also say they run there operation as they see fit... Which they should. This site is no different there is owners and his trusted mods who share the same feelings of how this site should be run. I ask those who do not like how the site is run a few questions. If you buy a house and its yours do you allow your guests to come in and run amuck and tell you how to run your household and farm? Do you not have guide lines and expectations of how a visitor on your property should conduct themselves? This site is not a god given right it is a privilege to be able to use. There is absolutely no one or anything requiring you to sign onto the site and be miserable. If you don't like it STAY OFF some of us would really like to have friendly chat and talk. If it were up to me first open complaint about how the site is managed your user name would be zapped. If you don't like anyone telling you how to run your operation why should you tell someone else how to run theirs. It definitely will not turn into a pissing match with me because that's my one and done comment. :2cents:

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Here s why we have debate. Your right. those discussions were civil, and found a resolution.

 

[True Grit Farms]

If a dog bites once it will do so again that is common sense.

How do you know that? Now don't go thinking I'm a bleeding heart that thinks every dog deserves and chance and blah, blah, blah. I think pitbulls should be outlawed. I have a hard time with police being fired for shooting and unruly dog.

This is one of those comments that make me scratch my head. All pit bulls aren't bad, and why should I not be allowed to own any dog that I so choose? Some cops have no right being a cop, and abuse their rights a power. I'm tough on dogs but I won't get out of my vehicle if a dog is barking or growling at me on private property. My dogs will try and chew your tires off your vehicle in my yard. But as soon as one of us tells them to come or bed your good to good.

 

[slick4591]

Here s why we have debate. Your right. those discussions were civil, and found a resolution.

It's easy to have a good debate when ideas are attacked and not people.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

If dogs are so smart, they ought to figure that out too

Maybe they have and we just don't always like their answer. ;-)


I guess we don't live in candyland. There's more than good neighbors and friends that show up.

Wife tells me today that apparently there's been a guy of questionable character around. Someone saw him at a bus stop, another dad reported he saw him take a picture of his girl in the front yard with his phone- dad was in the garage.

I'll take my legal chances with my dog that will probably bite a stranger if they press her or the kids. She doesn't take the place of good parenting, but she is a tool we employ. And yes, she was socialized as a pup, she just doesn't like strangers until I tell her they are OK. I appreciate that in her.

She has two jobs, first is to defend the kids and home- she might not stop everything, but she'll report their presence every time and makes doing shady business that much more complicated. Second job isn't as important as the first.

I appreciate wlamarpalmer's post. I've read several things that I can see a different view and understand their stance. But on this, I admit, I'm pretty solid.

There is a difference between attack and defend. And a difference between bite and trying to maul. A heeler biting a cow to get her to move isnt trying to maul the cow. A bite to get someone to go away isnt a mauling. Encyclopedia's of information are written about it. Too much to go into here. But it's an important distinction.

I don't love the dog more than a human life. We've had a few come to Jesus meetings about things. But I do love my kids more than someone I don't know, or someone I do know that she doesn't know and isn't smart enough to not approach a barking dog. Kids come and go as they please. I find all that quite acceptable. There's plenty of behavior I don't find acceptable.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Here s why we have debate. Your right. those discussions were civil, and found a resolution.

It's easy to have a good debate when ideas are attacked and not people.

Only a chicken farmer would say something like that.

 

[dun]

Yes, there may be predispositions in breeds, but a lot of the problem with pit bulls is the owners have them because of their predisposition, and REINFORCE it.

Thought that could bear repeating

 

[bball]

We'll knock around cuttin VS banding, and we'll talk about makin hay. We'll never have a good ole fashioned discussion. It will just never happen. It ain't in us. Oh well, it is a cattle forum anyway.

I couldn't agree more with you BF. You genuinely seem to be one of the folks on this CT who is willing to have an open, honest discussion, ask questions without being defensive or threatened by some of the answers. Pretty rare indeed.

Just my personal opinion, but it's one of the things that hurts this board. Fact is, there are only so many topics that can be discussed about cattle and raising thereof. The vast majority have been discussed in atleast 8 different threads. If it wasn't for the coffee shop and everything else sub topics, I wouldn't come here but 5 or 6 times a year (maybe) with only a cattle question. In the past year or so, I have been befriended by a few on here, and am thankful for their wisdom, input and just general appreciation for rural living.

Get tired of the old replies of go start your own board, go to ranchers, etc. It's played out. Fact is, in this day and age of polyanna political correctness, the vast majority of folks on this site, living this lifestyle are a HUGE minority. Many very intelligent folks on here with a wealth of experience and knowledge to share, but have to be careful and tiptoe around feelings instead of telling the truth.

Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I always prefer the truth; yes, even when it isn't what I want to hear. Nothing wrong with letting someone know they're being a numbnut. PC wins today.

I know the rules here, I play by them and understand it's someone else's board and respect that. But perhaps one of the reasons some of those truth telling CT ol timers don't hang out here so much anymore is because they got tired of debating facts with folks focused on feelings.

Again, have respect for you BIgfoot, one of the rare folks willing to accept the hard answers to challenging questions :tiphat:

 

[Deepsouth]

We have some great discussion on here.
This forum is where I lerned how to make this!

 

[Nesikep]

We'll knock around cuttin VS banding, and we'll talk about makin hay. We'll never have a good ole fashioned discussion. It will just never happen. It ain't in us. Oh well, it is a cattle forum anyway.

I couldn't agree more with you BF. You genuinely seem to be one of the folks on this CT who is willing to have an open, honest discussion, ask questions without being defensive or threatened by some of the answers. Pretty rare indeed.

Just my personal opinion, but it's one of the things that hurts this board. Fact is, there are only so many topics that can be discussed about cattle and raising thereof. The vast majority have been discussed in atleast 8 different threads. If it wasn't for the coffee shop and everything else sub topics, I wouldn't come here but 5 or 6 times a year (maybe) with only a cattle question. In the past year or so, I have been befriended by a few on here, and am thankful for their wisdom, input and just general appreciation for rural living.

Get tired of the old replies of go start your own board, go to ranchers, etc. It's played out. Fact is, in this day and age of polyanna political correctness, the vast majority of folks on this site, living this lifestyle are a HUGE minority. Many very intelligent folks on here with a wealth of experience and knowledge to share, but have to be careful and tiptoe around feelings instead of telling the truth.

Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I always prefer the truth; yes, even when it isn't what I want to hear. Nothing wrong with letting someone know they're being a numbnut. PC wins today.

I know the rules here, I play by them and understand it's someone else's board and respect that. But perhaps one of the reasons some of those truth telling CT ol timers don't hang out here so much anymore is because they got tired of debating facts with folks focused on feelings.

Again, have respect for you BIgfoot, one of the rare folks willing to accept the hard answers to challenging questions :tiphat:

I think you are quite right about why a lot of 'old timers' aren't here much anymore... I was looking through my posts, starting with the oldest ones, and was surprised at how many people with 1000+ posts I haven't seen in years... This place has changed since I've been here, some good, some bad. I try and play by the rules and rarely have things get under my skin (it has happened before with NCliz, flounder, SirLoin and a couple others spreading disinformation). So far I've only actually put 1 person on ignore

 

[slick4591]

Only a chicken farmer would say something like that.

Make that a wise chicken farmer. :lol: