Water lines for MIG

[wstevenl]

I'm about to have some water lines put in down the middle of a pasture that is aprox. 860' x 400' I'll have a semi permanent fence straight down the middle and the lines will be up against it with Quick connects underground for hooking up our trough's hose. I'm starting with 6 head of cattle (Dexters) and will do MIG but can't for the life of me decide how close to put the quick connect hook ups, nor how long of a hose to plan on using. The shorter the hose the better, but I don't want to have way more connection points than I need (especially when the herd/paddocks get bigger).

Have any advice?? -Thanks

 

[dun]

From experience I've learned that you will need them at least half as far apart as you think you will. It allows better divions of the paddocks as the grass changes it's growth throughout the year. The other thing is that putting them in is a one shot deal, digging up the lines at a later date to add more is a royal pain.

 

[Hoosier Pete]

Advise? You bet, don't put anything underground until you have tried it out on the surface first. Keep infrastructure spending to a minimum and put your money into animals that appreciate. Regardless how perfect a set up may seem today, despite extensive research and planning you will change your mind. Try to think of how much you don't need rather than trying to have everything the "big boys" have. It is hard to un-buy something once the money has been spent.

Good Luck, Pete

 

[arkie 74]

whats a MIG

 

[Hoosier Pete]

It's actually Mig. Management intensive grazing with the emphasis on management. Thats the reason for the capital M in the Mig. It was coined by Jim Gerrish.

Pete

 

[SRBeef]

your post does not say where you are located. That makes a big difference. Water lines need to be put deep enough so you don't need to worry about freeze up, ever.

I would put a line right to the center of this field, deep. Have the people laying the water line also include an 10-2 with ground electric cable with the waterline. Come straight up with about a 15" diameter plastic culvert at least 4 ft long. Have the folks putting in the waterline also wrap the end of it with a heat tape up to the surface. Pour about a 12 ft square or larger concrete pad around the culvert with a 4ft square 4" raised section in the center, flush with the top of the culvert.

Then you can mount an all weather waterer with minimal problems and it will be worth the expense. Putting in the waterline is the expensive part, the electricity is important in most areas of the country. I like the concrete waterers made by Petersen Mfg. I use one of these:

http://www.petersenwaterers.com/secure- ... roduct=422

You can then run single wire electric dividing fences to make a lane down the center so your paddocks all have access to the central waterer. This system works with minimal fuss. It is expensive but you do it once. This also avoids the mudhole common around the waterer or trough. Moving and cleaning troughs is not easy nor fun job so it doesn't get done as often as it should. The other extreme as suggested is to lay hose on the surface but the big question is what are you going to do over the winter if you are in the north? Best of luck.

 

[wstevenl]

In the beginning I thought about doing a central waterer with lanes but have decided to use a small simple rubbermade trough with a float valve. This trough will have a hose on it with a quick connect end so that I can reach down into a piece of culvert I'm the field to plug it in. I won't have an issue with mud because ever day or two the cattle and water will be moved. The guy doing it for us suggested 150' between connection points down the field, I'm just afraid that we will have very small paddocks in the beginning and we will have to use lots of hose to reach the small paddocks.
-oh, we're going ahead and trenching it because it must be right next to our fence, therefore it can't be put in after the fence.

 

[wstevenl]

Sorry, I didn't say where I was.
I'm in Southeast Missouri and the field is exactly as described, a rectangle with no trees, no hills. The reason we're going ahead and trenching is that a trencher can't get very close to an existing fence and we want the culverts for water hook-ups to be right in line with the future fence that will be built right after the water is put in. Plus, I don't want to have to bring the cows back to the barn when the weather gets cold.... if we can stockpile forage I'd like to graze as long as possible and continue to water in the field... with underground lines that won't freeze.

 

[dun]

if we can stockpile forage I'd like to graze as long as possible and continue to water in the field... with underground lines that won't freeze.

The only catch to that is how are you going to get the water from the underground line to the waterer?

 

[wstevenl]

The guy putting it in (I'm having to trust him alot... lol) says that a 10' or so hose, wrapped in insulation will keep working most of the year here. When it gets SUPER cold we probably will want to bring them to the barn anyways. I know people that raise poultry, hogs, and some cattle and water from a pond on a hill (gravity fed lines) in the winter they just let the water slowly pour 24/7 and it keeps it from freezing.

 

[SRBeef]

In the beginning I thought about doing a central waterer with lanes but have decided to use a small simple rubbermade trough with a float valve. This trough will have a hose on it with a quick connect end so that I can reach down into a piece of culvert I'm the field to plug it in. I won't have an issue with mud because ever day or two the cattle and water will be moved. The guy doing it for us suggested 150' between connection points down the field, I'm just afraid that we will have very small paddocks in the beginning and we will have to use lots of hose to reach the small paddocks.
-oh, we're going ahead and trenching it because it must be right next to our fence, therefore it can't be put in after the fence.

moving cattle every couple days typically involves just opening one end of an electric wire fence. moving water and trough every couple days may get old fast. Best of luck.

 

[wstevenl]

Wouldn't it also involve moving the next section of electric fence into place for the next rotation?
I had everything all planned out for a lane going back to a fancy waterer on a concrete slab.... but it's going to be almost to same money to have the water lines trenched as it would to have the frost proof waterer with a concrete slab put in, plus we can get away with MUCH less electric fencing if we move the fence and water than if we have to have lanes. And we don't have to sacrifice the area for the lanes.
I'm actually hoping to only have to empty and move the water trough every other time because we can keep it right on the fence line and move the cattle from one side of the fence to the other.

 

[PATB]

How much area/forage will 7 animals eat in a day? You might want to have your water connection points closer together or have several hunderd feet of hose. I would suggest longer connection hoses than 10' feet to avoid future mud challenges around connection point.

 

[wstevenl]

That's a big part of the problem.... I don't know how much they will eat in a day. The grass is planted but I have no idea what the forage quality will be later this year, much less in the future.

What I did do is use a mid range number of lbs of forage produced on one acre in once cutting of hay, or one grazing cycle... I then estimated each head eating 2.5% body weight each day and came up with an estimate of paddock size for 3 days of grazing. This would totally be a ballpark figure I know and I'll have to just see how it works out but it gave me 1/3acre pasture, moving every 3 days. I just wondered if anyone else would have a better way to estimate paddocks that would be needed so that the water placement would be handy.

Thanks for all your ideas.

 

[SRBeef]

That's a big part of the problem.... I don't know how much they will eat in a day. The grass is planted but I have no idea what the forage quality will be later this year, much less in the future.

What I did do is use a mid range number of lbs of forage produced on one acre in once cutting of hay, or one grazing cycle... I then estimated each head eating 2.5% body weight each day and came up with an estimate of paddock size for 3 days of grazing. This would totally be a ballpark figure I know and I'll have to just see how it works out but it gave me 1/3acre pasture, moving every 3 days. I just wondered if anyone else would have a better way to estimate paddocks that would be needed so that the water placement would be handy.

Thanks for all your ideas.

The size of paddock needed for 3 days grazing will vary enormously through the grass growing season. In spring it will be much smaller area than needed in July and August. My concern about your water culverts all along the fence is that each of these is a real potential freeze point in the winter. Even in SW MO. IF you make your lane to a central waterer (with electic wire!) 10 ft wide it is not much "waste" and with 7 head they will graze that too. Interior electric fencing is really not much trouble to move. Run your main electric fence along one edge and a single wire with step in posts - the Gallagher metal ones with a white loop at the top move easily, are easy to step in and last a long time compared to the plastic or rebar. Run a wire over to a none conducting handle which you can move along a barb wire on the other side changing the size of the paddock as required by the grass growth.

Don't mean to question your original plan, just trying to share my own startup experience, although I am in a much colder climate. The Petersen water went through 53 days this winter with below zero F temperatures including a couple very near 30 below. Your climate is much less severe but you will still get significant freezing as I recall.

Best of luck.