Vermeer 504 Super I Problems

[dvcochran]

I have a 504 Super I. I bales with it last year and it did Ok but not great. I knew the pickup drive clutch was out when I bought it. I have done the following work to the baler:
Replaced pickup drive clutch
Replaced all pickup cam follower bearing
Replaced all pickup teeth
Unstuck hydraulic density adjustment pilot valve and recharged system.
Repaired broken wire in monitor cable
Chains and sprockets look good

The baler auto-ties as it should
I baled last week and had several bales that tied only one string. I think this was mostly a mucked up ball of twine but not certain.
There was a lot of hay getting in front of the belts but the windrows were light and dry. I was running the baler at a few hundred rpm under 540. Can I do anything to reduce this?
When I parked the baler and blew is off I discovered there was a lot of hay inside the belts. Can I reduce this?
I put the bales in the barn today and found that they were very loose and many of them had hay on the outside of the strings and looked shabby. I had the bale density set where it maxed out at 800psi. A friend who custom bales with a 6640 said he thinks I should remove the belts and cut them to the same length and re-lace. Does this make sense?
I do not know where to start to troubleshoot the baler.
Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[rollinhills]

Do you have a manual? you can get on the Vermeer web site and order one at no cost.The beIts do sound like they could be too long, as far as hay behind the belts that's just a fact of life. I have a 505 I seems like hay is back there about half the time.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Density pressure sounds really low, it thought around 1800+? 350 RPM is the sweet spot for my baler try going up to 540 and work your way down. Had a square baler that wouldn't bale or tie right if the pto was less than 500 RPM. With the baler off run the arms all the way out and make sure both are in time, if they are it's a line restriction problem.
What part of the world are you located in? One of the most knowledgeable Vermeer dealer is in Elko Georgia.

 

[1982vett]

Relace your belts
Make sure your twine brushes and kinves are in good shape and not letting the string snap back into the tube.
Light windrows....rake more together. More hay falls behind the belts the longer it takes to make a roll.
Any chance your pressure guages aren't functioning properly? Make sure they aren't stuck.

 

[hurleyjd]

I have a 504 Super I. I bales with it last year and it did Ok but not great. I knew the pickup drive clutch was out when I bought it. I have done the following work to the baler:
Replaced pickup drive clutch
Replaced all pickup cam follower bearing
Replaced all pickup teeth
Unstuck hydraulic density adjustment pilot valve and recharged system.
Repaired broken wire in monitor cable
Chains and sprockets look good

The baler auto-ties as it should
I baled last week and had several bales that tied only one string. I think this was mostly a mucked up ball of twine but not certain.
There was a lot of hay getting in front of the belts but the windrows were light and dry. I was running the baler at a few hundred rpm under 540. Can I do anything to reduce this?
When I parked the baler and blew is off I discovered there was a lot of hay inside the belts. Can I reduce this?
I put the bales in the barn today and found that they were very loose and many of them had hay on the outside of the strings and looked shabby. I had the bale density set where it maxed out at 800psi. A friend who custom bales with a 6640 said he thinks I should remove the belts and cut them to the same length and re-lace. Does this make sense?
I do not know where to start to troubleshoot the baler.
Thanks for any suggestions.

I have went through the same problems with a 5410 rebel. One set of new belts that were supposed to work were too thick and would curl against the belt dividers and not turn. Net would not feed with another set of new belts through the Vermeer dealer all belts tracked great except one. The belt company would not take my word for it and said to bring to dealer or verification. Finally after the tech changing the location of the belt and sending video to the belt company they did send new belt I had to pay for the tech hours and still will not work. I have spent enough on this baler to have bought a new one. And now I still have a baler that I am working on. Sell your baler and problems to someone else and buy a new one. String tie only a new 5420 would cost around $20000 with no interest for 60 months. I have spent close to $7500 on this baler and it still is not working. I have ordered new net cutting knife and will install and cross my fingers that this will help.

 

[dvcochran]

I replace the pressure gauge when I unstuck the pilot valve and recharged. It is going up and down at the chamber fills or the tailgate goes up. Brushes look new but I picked up some new ones. I will replace the blade before baling again.
The belts look very good. Not abrasion or worn spots. Are you saying replace the belts to make sure they are the same length? Is there something else I should be looking for? They track good.

 

[1982vett]

Somewhere in the specs it will give belt lengths. It best if they are close to specified lengths. Not saying to replace them but to cut and relace them to get them close to the specified lengths if they are way off.

Might just sharpen with a hone or fine sandpaper. You want a clean cut of the twine so it doesn't do weird things. Does the Super I auto tie? If not, might feed a little windrow when you start to tie to ensure it catches the twine.

Oops, I see where you said it does auto tie...might also check to see if the tension on the twine isn't to strong.

 

[dvcochran]

I went through the setup section of the manual and adjusted the roller scrapers. I cleaned up some fence rows and made enough windrow to bale 4 bales. Not a big sample but did not see much hay in front of the belts. There was some buildup on the "drivers" side outer belt. They were decent sized windrows though.
I was going to set the belt tension springs at 5 1/2" as the manual specifies but they are already at about 4". Would this be a sign that the belts are too long?
I turned up the hydraulic density to about 900 psi and it seemed to make a better looking bale.

 

[snoopdog]

More groundspeed

 

[Texasmark]

I have a 504 Super I. I bales with it last year and it did Ok but not great. I knew the pickup drive clutch was out when I bought it. I have done the following work to the baler:
Replaced pickup drive clutch
Replaced all pickup cam follower bearing
Replaced all pickup teeth
Unstuck hydraulic density adjustment pilot valve and recharged system.
Repaired broken wire in monitor cable
Chains and sprockets look good

The baler auto-ties as it should
I baled last week and had several bales that tied only one string. I think this was mostly a mucked up ball of twine but not certain.
There was a lot of hay getting in front of the belts but the windrows were light and dry. I was running the baler at a few hundred rpm under 540. Can I do anything to reduce this?
When I parked the baler and blew is off I discovered there was a lot of hay inside the belts. Can I reduce this?
I put the bales in the barn today and found that they were very loose and many of them had hay on the outside of the strings and looked shabby. I had the bale density set where it maxed out at 800psi. A friend who custom bales with a 6640 said he thinks I should remove the belts and cut them to the same length and re-lace. Does this make sense?
I do not know where to start to troubleshoot the baler.
Thanks for any suggestions.

I have went through the same problems with a 5410 rebel. One set of new belts that were supposed to work were too thick and would curl against the belt dividers and not turn. Net would not feed with another set of new belts through the Vermeer dealer all belts tracked great except one. The belt company would not take my word for it and said to bring to dealer or verification. Finally after the tech changing the location of the belt and sending video to the belt company they did send new belt I had to pay for the tech hours and still will not work. I have spent enough on this baler to have bought a new one. And now I still have a baler that I am working on. Sell your baler and problems to someone else and buy a new one. String tie only a new 5420 would cost around $20000 with no interest for 60 months. I have spent close to $7500 on this baler and it still is not working. I have ordered new net cutting knife and will install and cross my fingers that this will help.

"I have ordered new net cutting knife and will install and cross my fingers that this will help."

I have a '91 JD with who knows how many bales. My cutter wasn't performing up to speed so I added shims to the tie arm forcing it to put more pressure on the cutter knife. I'd usually run sandpaper over the knife to get the rust off and hopefully improve it's sloppy cutting.

This year I took a piece of 2000 grit, folded it over making abrasive on both sides and pulled it through the cutter contact area with maximum pressure on the cutter control arm couple dozen times. Apparently it worked as I only had to cut 1 bale and restart 1 in 2 days of baling. Forget the price of a new cutter and mating bracket but was more than I wanted to pay.

 

[hurleyjd]

I have a 504 Super I. I bales with it last year and it did Ok but not great. I knew the pickup drive clutch was out when I bought it. I have done the following work to the baler:
Replaced pickup drive clutch
Replaced all pickup cam follower bearing
Replaced all pickup teeth
Unstuck hydraulic density adjustment pilot valve and recharged system.
Repaired broken wire in monitor cable
Chains and sprockets look good

The baler auto-ties as it should
I baled last week and had several bales that tied only one string. I think this was mostly a mucked up ball of twine but not certain.
There was a lot of hay getting in front of the belts but the windrows were light and dry. I was running the baler at a few hundred rpm under 540. Can I do anything to reduce this?
When I parked the baler and blew is off I discovered there was a lot of hay inside the belts. Can I reduce this?
I put the bales in the barn today and found that they were very loose and many of them had hay on the outside of the strings and looked shabby. I had the bale density set where it maxed out at 800psi. A friend who custom bales with a 6640 said he thinks I should remove the belts and cut them to the same length and re-lace. Does this make sense?
I do not know where to start to troubleshoot the baler.
Thanks for any suggestions.

I have went through the same problems with a 5410 rebel. One set of new belts that were supposed to work were too thick and would curl against the belt dividers and not turn. Net would not feed with another set of new belts through the Vermeer dealer all belts tracked great except one. The belt company would not take my word for it and said to bring to dealer or verification. Finally after the tech changing the location of the belt and sending video to the belt company they did send new belt I had to pay for the tech hours and still will not work. I have spent enough on this baler to have bought a new one. And now I still have a baler that I am working on. Sell your baler and problems to someone else and buy a new one. String tie only a new 5420 would cost around $20000 with no interest for 60 months. I have spent close to $7500 on this baler and it still is not working. I have ordered new net cutting knife and will install and cross my fingers that this will help.

"I have ordered new net cutting knife and will install and cross my fingers that this will help."

I have a '91 JD with who knows how many bales. My cutter wasn't performing up to speed so I added shims to the tie arm forcing it to put more pressure on the cutter knife. I'd usually run sandpaper over the knife to get the rust off and hopefully improve it's sloppy cutting.

This year I took a piece of 2000 grit, folded it over making abrasive on both sides and pulled it through the cutter contact area with maximum pressure on the cutter control arm couple dozen times. Apparently it worked as I only had to cut 1 bale and restart 1 in 2 days of baling. Forget the price of a new cutter and mating bracket but was more than I wanted to pay.

Here is the e-mail I received from the Vermeer Tech


Jack,

The heavy knife should fit in your balers. (big improvement).

Loosen or remove the belts and work from inside the tailgate to access the mount.

Clean the knife/spring steel mount so there is no debris on it anywhere.

When you position the heavy knife the bevel should be towards the tractor and the sharp edge should be about 1/16" above the flat piece of spring steel that lays across the top of the mount.

The pinch-bar that lays on the flat spring steel should make contact all the way across on the flat bar and be just rearward of the knife. The front welds of the pinch bar should not hit the knife when it squeezes down to cut. Loosen the mounting bolts on each side to adjust up and down and back and forth.

All of the parts the tech recommended came to about $127. Not bad if it works. The old knife did not have any edge on it at all. I have hay that could be cut but the ground is to wet under the grass to support the equipment. We keep having 5 to 6 inches of rain each week. My soil is prone to stay wet for some time after a rain.

 

[dvcochran]

My 504 SI had regular utility knife blades on the twine cutters since I bought it. Are you saying there is something different I should use?

 

[1982vett]

My 504 SI had regular utility knife blades on the twine cutters since I bought it. Are you saying there is something different I should use?

That's what I use on my 605L. I suspect Vermeer sells a blade but I don't know for sure but somewhere in here I think we've gone from cutting twine to cutting netwrap. I don't know the workings of a netwrap system.

 

[cowski]

run the pto at 540 this will tighten the bales and put more string on them.that could be your only problem.

 

[dvcochran]

More groundspeed

I am running about 6 mph. That is as fast as I dare run in my fields.

 

[dvcochran]

I was finally able to pull a belt out of the baler today. It measured 421". The owner's manual calls for 424". As long as all the belts are 421" should this be OK?

The baler has had a high pitched screeching sound for a while. I removed the pickup drive chain and figured out that the "pan" in front of and below the starter roll was bent. About 1/2 of the pickup teeth rows nearer the middle were rubbing on the pan as they went down and around to the bottom of the pickup. I'm guessing something other hay went into the baler. I removed the pan and with heat and using my front end loader as a press was able to get the bend from 1" to 1/4" (it is a $1,200 part from the dealer so not an option). I have to clean and paint before putting it back in tomorrow. You could clearly see where the rows of teeth nearer the middle would be farther from the starter roll as they feed material. Would you consider this a big, little, or no problem? Either way it needed fixing to preserve the pickup teeth and eliminate the potential of eventually rubbing through the "pan".

On a side note: I read in the owners manual where you can opt to use all 6" belts when replacing the belts instead of 2 -14" belts and 2 - 6" belts. Is there a known good reason to go with all 6" belts? I think newer balers like Rebels & Ranchers have all the same width belts. I don't think I am to the point of replacing belts yet but if I do this would be good information to have.

 

[Silver]

Sounds like you are getting it figured. Just remember (assuming this baler is like an M or N, or most other breeds actually) that not all the belts should be the same length, several take a different route around a front roller and need to be a different length.

 

[cfpinz]

Sounds like you are getting it figured. Just remember (assuming this baler is like an M or N, or most other breeds actually) that not all the belts should be the same length, several take a different route around a front roller and need to be a different length.

On the 504I balers, all belts were the same length. The different length belts started with the M series so they could split around that front driver roller and auger chaff out.

To the OP, if it were my baler I'd go back with the 2 narrow and 2 wide setup. I never had any issues with flipping the wide belts on our old balers, can't say the same for the narrows.