vaccinate before CIDRs

[Bcompton53]

Can I vaccinate my cattle with cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 at the same time that I implant Cidrs and give Cystorelin to A.I.? I have been vaccinating when I wean calves in the spring. But it would be more convenient if I can do it all at once.
Thanks,

 

[Bright Raven]

Can I vaccinate my cattle with cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 at the same time that I implant Cidrs and give Cystorelin to A.I.? I have been vaccinating when I wean calves in the spring. But it would be more convenient if I can do it all at once.
Thanks,

The recommended time to give fetal protection vaccines is a minimum of 30 days prior to breeding. This is especially true of MLV vaccines because the Virus that causes Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis (IBR) can disrupt normal maturation of the follicle on the ovary. The IBR component of Cattle Master is a killed preparation. Thus, not likely to be as dramatic. I would suggest staying within the recommendations.

 

[Bcompton53]

Can I vaccinate my cattle with cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 at the same time that I implant Cidrs and give Cystorelin to A.I.? I have been vaccinating when I wean calves in the spring. But it would be more convenient if I can do it all at once.
Thanks,

The recommended time to give fetal protection vaccines is a minimum of 30 days prior to breeding. This is especially true of MLV vaccines because the Virus that causes Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis (IBR) can disrupt normal maturation of the follicle on the ovary. The IBR component of Cattle Master is a killed preparation. Thus, not likely to be as dramatic. I would suggest staying within the recommendations.

Thanks for the info. I'm always trying to improve. I don't want to work them through another time, so I'll just keep shooting them in the spring

 

[Bright Raven]

Can I vaccinate my cattle with cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 at the same time that I implant Cidrs and give Cystorelin to A.I.? I have been vaccinating when I wean calves in the spring. But it would be more convenient if I can do it all at once.
Thanks,

The recommended time to give fetal protection vaccines is a minimum of 30 days prior to breeding. This is especially true of MLV vaccines because the Virus that causes Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis (IBR) can disrupt normal maturation of the follicle on the ovary. The IBR component of Cattle Master is a killed preparation. Thus, not likely to be as dramatic. I would suggest staying within the recommendations.

Thanks for the info. I'm always trying to improve. I don't want to work them through another time, so I'll just keep shooting them in the spring

There was an article in Cow Country written by Dr. Arnold about a year ago on this subject. The emphasis was on the influence of MLV vaccines for Fetal Protection on the ovary. The bovine herpes virus 1 (BHV-1) which causes Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis (IBR) is the component which can disrupt the normal function of the ovary. Obviously, that is not what you want to occur during a time when you are breeding. Dr. Arnold suggested vaccinating at least 30 days prior to breeding so that normal function is restored before breeding. This year I vaccinated 60 days before I started my AI service for fall calves.

 

[Dsth]

I used that exact same vaccine last year on my cows before breeding season began (about 30 days prior as the instructions said.) It so happened that I had my vet come up for a different treatment on a cow that did not calf yet. He said he would strongly suggest not doing it this year because it lowers your conception rate. I will be using a killed vaccine this year as he suggested. my conception rate was not good last year but I have used the cattlemaster vaccine for several years before and had good luck with conception.

 

[Bright Raven]

I used that exact same vaccine last year on my cows before breeding season began (about 30 days prior as the instructions said.) It so happened that I had my vet come up for a different treatment on a cow that did not calf yet. He said he would strongly suggest not doing it this year because it lowers your conception rate. I will be using a killed vaccine this year as he suggested. my conception rate was not good last year but I have used the cattlemaster vaccine for several years before and had good luck with conception.

If you feel more comfortable with a killed vaccine to help prevent disease caused by IBR, BVD, PI3 AND BRSV, you are not giving up much. There are studies that provide reliable support for getting a better immune response from a MLV vaccine.

Right now, I am getting very good conception returns after using a MLV fetal protection vaccine but I did give it 60 days prior to my first AI. I am having very strong estrus cycles this breeding season and the returns are running at 85% conception on the first service.

You could also continue to use Cattlemaster FP5. The only component in Cattlemaster that is a MLV is the BRSV. The other 3 components are KILLED.

PS: it bears repeating, the only component that influences the maturation of the follicle is the IBR component. In the article by Dr. Arnold she described the immune response to the MLV IBR as a cause for some disruption in the ovary. This has a potential to influence conception.

 

[Bcompton53]

I used that exact same vaccine last year on my cows before breeding season began (about 30 days prior as the instructions said.) It so happened that I had my vet come up for a different treatment on a cow that did not calf yet. He said he would strongly suggest not doing it this year because it lowers your conception rate. I will be using a killed vaccine this year as he suggested. my conception rate was not good last year but I have used the cattlemaster vaccine for several years before and had good luck with conception.

If you feel more comfortable with a killed vaccine to help prevent disease caused by IBR, BVD, PI3 AND BRSV, you are not giving up much. There are studies that provide reliable support for getting a better immune response from a MLV vaccine.

Right now, I am getting very good conception returns after using a MLV fetal protection vaccine but I did give it 60 days prior to my first AI. I am having very strong estrus cycles this breeding season and the returns are running at 85% conception on the first service.

You could also continue to use Cattlemaster FP5. The only component in Cattlemaster that is a MLV is the BRSV. The other 3 components are KILLED.

PS: it bears repeating, the only component that influences the maturation of the follicle is the IBR component. In the article by Dr. Arnold she described the immune response to the MLV IBR as a cause for some disruption in the ovary. This has a potential to influence conception.

so, am I increasing risk much by just vaccinating in march/april when I wean calves? I give cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 then. I suppose the prevention might be decreased some by breeding time, but it is still going to be considered effective? For what it's worth, we very rarely have any kind of illness issue.

 

[Bright Raven]

I used that exact same vaccine last year on my cows before breeding season began (about 30 days prior as the instructions said.) It so happened that I had my vet come up for a different treatment on a cow that did not calf yet. He said he would strongly suggest not doing it this year because it lowers your conception rate. I will be using a killed vaccine this year as he suggested. my conception rate was not good last year but I have used the cattlemaster vaccine for several years before and had good luck with conception.

If you feel more comfortable with a killed vaccine to help prevent disease caused by IBR, BVD, PI3 AND BRSV, you are not giving up much. There are studies that provide reliable support for getting a better immune response from a MLV vaccine.

Right now, I am getting very good conception returns after using a MLV fetal protection vaccine but I did give it 60 days prior to my first AI. I am having very strong estrus cycles this breeding season and the returns are running at 85% conception on the first service.

You could also continue to use Cattlemaster FP5. The only component in Cattlemaster that is a MLV is the BRSV. The other 3 components are KILLED.

PS: it bears repeating, the only component that influences the maturation of the follicle is the IBR component. In the article by Dr. Arnold she described the immune response to the MLV IBR as a cause for some disruption in the ovary. This has a potential to influence conception.

so, am I increasing risk much by just vaccinating in march/april when I wean calves? I give cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 then. I suppose the prevention might be decreased some by breeding time, but it is still going to be considered effective? For what it's worth, we very rarely have any kind of illness issue.

I would try to stay in a window of 75 to 30 days pre-breeding in accordance with vaccine recommendations. Having said that, you have to work within the constraints of your operation. The Fetal Protection vaccines (IN GENERAL), provide effective immunity for about 200 days. Albeit, it is a diminishing immunity.

The question I have is not how frequent you have illness but what is the incidence of abortion or failure to conceive in your herd.

 

[Bcompton53]

If you feel more comfortable with a killed vaccine to help prevent disease caused by IBR, BVD, PI3 AND BRSV, you are not giving up much. There are studies that provide reliable support for getting a better immune response from a MLV vaccine.

Right now, I am getting very good conception returns after using a MLV fetal protection vaccine but I did give it 60 days prior to my first AI. I am having very strong estrus cycles this breeding season and the returns are running at 85% conception on the first service.

You could also continue to use Cattlemaster FP5. The only component in Cattlemaster that is a MLV is the BRSV. The other 3 components are KILLED.

PS: it bears repeating, the only component that influences the maturation of the follicle is the IBR component. In the article by Dr. Arnold she described the immune response to the MLV IBR as a cause for some disruption in the ovary. This has a potential to influence conception.

so, am I increasing risk much by just vaccinating in march/april when I wean calves? I give cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 then. I suppose the prevention might be decreased some by breeding time, but it is still going to be considered effective? For what it's worth, we very rarely have any kind of illness issue.

I would try to stay in a window of 75 to 30 days pre-breeding in accordance with vaccine recommendations. Having said that, you have to work within the constraints of your operation. The Fetal Protection vaccines (IN GENERAL), provide effective immunity for about 200 days. Albeit, it is a diminishing immunity.

The question I have is not how frequent you have illness but what is the incidence of abortion or failure to conceive in your herd.

200 days, good to know. We changed from dairy back to beef 4 years ago. Rebuilt a herd from sale barn heifers. We are down to pretty good ones, but still culling a couple each year. This year we had 93% conception rate. Only 1 was outside 50 days from ai due date, she definitely could have aborted early, but was also of Hereford influence and on the young end of the heifers.

 

[Bright Raven]

so, am I increasing risk much by just vaccinating in march/april when I wean calves? I give cattlemaster gold FP5 L5 then. I suppose the prevention might be decreased some by breeding time, but it is still going to be considered effective? For what it's worth, we very rarely have any kind of illness issue.

I would try to stay in a window of 75 to 30 days pre-breeding in accordance with vaccine recommendations. Having said that, you have to work within the constraints of your operation. The Fetal Protection vaccines (IN GENERAL), provide effective immunity for about 200 days. Albeit, it is a diminishing immunity.

The question I have is not how frequent you have illness but what is the incidence of abortion or failure to conceive in your herd.

200 days, good to know. We changed from dairy back to beef 4 years ago. Rebuilt a herd from sale barn heifers. We are down to pretty good ones, but still culling a couple each year. This year we had 93% conception rate. Only 1 was outside 50 days from ai due date, she definitely could have aborted early, but was also of Hereford influence and on the young end of the heifers.

The 200 days of immunity is a general number. Some components of a 5 way fetal protection last longer than others and it varies from one vaccine to another. If you have brought in sale barn stock, vaccination is a very wise practice. Even bringing in cattle from high profile sales is a risk. For example, the virus that causes BVD is very easily transmitted. The nasal discharges around a sale facility watering tank could potentially infect a lot of otherwise healthy animals.

Edited to add: it should be noted also that the advertised lengths of immunity assigned to vaccines are based on clinical studies. I have been told by drug companies that these advertised lengths of immunity are strictly regulated both internally and externally to the company. Keep in mind that the animals they use are maintained in a healthy state. If your cattle are not maintained in good condition with regard to nutrition and care, you may not achieve these lengths of immunity.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Also, if you give shots early, you might want to give another Lepto shot (L5HB). It is generally only good for about 6 months. I hit all my cows 2x year.

 

[pdfangus]

Also, if you give shots early, you might want to give another Lepto shot (L5HB). It is generally only good for about 6 months. I hit all my cows 2x year.

Ditto.....
once as soon as possible after calving and as forward of breeding as possible.... target October
second at spring preg check and calf processing for weaning...target march

 

[Ebenezer]

I am not sure of the intent of everyone's comments. But the issue is not to eliminate MLV from use due to poor timing of the breeder. MLVs are good tools. If you want to use them, just use them more than 30 days (more like 45 days for me according to my Vet) before breeding. We use them for young animals when weaned, while they are developing, prebreeding with adequate time ahead of breeding on cows that have calved. We can maintain a 60 day calving season so it is not a brick wall. But we are careful to manage the time properly and if there are late calvers they get a KV on the same trip thru the chute.

 

[Bcompton53]

I would try to stay in a window of 75 to 30 days pre-breeding in accordance with vaccine recommendations. Having said that, you have to work within the constraints of your operation. The Fetal Protection vaccines (IN GENERAL), provide effective immunity for about 200 days. Albeit, it is a diminishing immunity.

The question I have is not how frequent you have illness but what is the incidence of abortion or failure to conceive in your herd.

200 days, good to know. We changed from dairy back to beef 4 years ago. Rebuilt a herd from sale barn heifers. We are down to pretty good ones, but still culling a couple each year. This year we had 93% conception rate. Only 1 was outside 50 days from ai due date, she definitely could have aborted early, but was also of Hereford influence and on the young end of the heifers.

The 200 days of immunity is a general number. Some components of a 5 way fetal protection last longer than others and it varies from one vaccine to another. If you have brought in sale barn stock, vaccination is a very wise practice. Even bringing in cattle from high profile sales is a risk. For example, the virus that causes BVD is very easily transmitted. The nasal discharges around a sale facility watering tank could potentially infect a lot of otherwise healthy animals.

Edited to add: it should be noted also that the advertised lengths of immunity assigned to vaccines are based on clinical studies. I have been told by drug companies that these advertised lengths of immunity are strictly regulated both internally and externally to the company. Keep in mind that the animals they use are maintained in a healthy state. If your cattle are not maintained in good condition with regard to nutrition and care, you may not achieve these lengths of immunity.

All good info, thanks to all. We have vaccinated strictly the first couple years, and test everything for PIBVD, Neospora, and a few other things.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Eb - I am totally on board with MLV. Killed costs more and last shorter time period. I would add Killed HAS to have a booster or it isn't any good - but, that's not a "con" on my farm, because I booster the MLV on my calves 30 days later just because no vaccine gives you 100% coverage 1st time around and part of my MLV needs a booster, so might as well give the whole thing again.
I have switched my herd to giving my BS5L5HB in the fall for the spring calvers and in the spring for the fall calvers. That way, I don't have to worry about the 30-45 day pre-breeding days. It did mean giving my cows 2 MLV shots in one year (spring & fall) to switch them over. But, now, I still have the benefit of being able to give nursing calves the MLV (cows still within the 12 month period) and don't have to hurry to give the shot prior to breeding.