slick4591
Well-known member
Thanks Aaron.
Two stage weaning
- Thread starter cross_7
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
cross_7
Well-known member
jedstivers":1kdrbd5d said:
I'm gonna set mine up so I can watch them from the kitchen window
I'm also going sell the calves early just to get them gone and just wean them on the trailer
That way I don't have to lift a finger and can get on here and tell everyone how poorly they do things
Lucky_P
Well-known member
SL,
I've been around the block a time or two, have seen it - and done it; lost my t-shirt.
In the vast majority of cases, year-round calving goes hand in hand with, at best, minimal to no management.
And yes, I made some money when I did it that way - but left a lot on the table.
I've been around the block a time or two, have seen it - and done it; lost my t-shirt.
In the vast majority of cases, year-round calving goes hand in hand with, at best, minimal to no management.
And yes, I made some money when I did it that way - but left a lot on the table.
sim.-ang.king
Well-known member
Careful what you say to old Sir Loin about year round breeding, we might have another holy war on our hands!
:hide: :deadhorse: :bang:
:shock: :stop: :stop: :stop:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82199
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82408
:hide: :deadhorse: :bang:
:shock: :stop: :stop: :stop: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82199
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82408
Lucky,
I have always found that those who calve year round know more about their herd then those who use seasonal breeding.
But that's not the point.
The point is if you wean on wheels or fence line wean at a proper age there is no need for any intervention. You just let nature take it's course. And it doesn't let someone take money out of your pocket and put your money in his pocket.
To me the $4 - 5 per head is just a waste of money and time, even if you do seasonal breeding. :2cents:
Liz
That may be in your area, but I disagree. Maybe out in the SW US maybe.
I have always found that those who calve year round know more about their herd then those who use seasonal breeding.
But that's not the point.
The point is if you wean on wheels or fence line wean at a proper age there is no need for any intervention. You just let nature take it's course. And it doesn't let someone take money out of your pocket and put your money in his pocket.
To me the $4 - 5 per head is just a waste of money and time, even if you do seasonal breeding. :2cents:
Liz
branguscowgirl
Well-known member
We know your better than that Cross. :nod:cross_7":3djwhwkh said:
cross_7
Well-known member
branguscowgirl
Well-known member
cross_7":mwi1pzcj said:
Dang Herefords... Get some Brahman cattle and they will wean their own calves. :lol: :hide:
longhorntractor
Well-known member
Great post. I have been thinking about using the nose tags awhile. I am gonna give it a shot this week. I just need to convince my old school ranch partner that it makes sense!
greybeard
Well-known member
So the little stubs face up against the udder, and not down toward the calf's lip. I assume that is to irritate the udder/teats and make the momma move away?Aaron":kmfvcbvl said:
I fence line weaned last fall in a pen with the mommas left outside the pen in a small pasture for I think 3 days--maybe 4. Mommas could be right next to the pen panels but calves couldn't get heads thru the panels to suck. Better than years past where I separated by keeping mommas a pasture away but the calves still paced around and bawled some but not nearly as much as before. Mommas didn't seem to much care at all other than to walk up to the pen once in a while. Mommas were queit except for one that's always been over protective. I moved the mommas away after 3-4 days and hauled the calves a day or 2 later. I may try the flaps this year--sure cheap enough--looks like about $4 ea.
Do the flaps interfere with the calf's ability to graze or eat feed at all?
So how long do you leave the nose flap in while calves are with the mommas? A week?
Then separate them and pull the flaps. Sounds like a good deal if you are shipping the calves.
If you are retaining any calves, and the calves are in the same pasture as the mommas--what is the schedule then?
Aaron
Well-known member
So the little stubs face up against the udder, and not down toward the calf's lip. I assume that is to irritate the udder/teats and make the momma move away? YesAaron":1g24hcv3 said:
I fence line weaned last fall in a pen with the mommas left outside the pen in a small pasture for I think 3 days--maybe 4. Mommas could be right next to the pen panels but calves couldn't get heads thru the panels to suck. Better than years past where I separated by keeping mommas a pasture away but the calves still paced around and bawled some but not nearly as much as before. Mommas didn't seem to much care at all other than to walk up to the pen once in a while. Mommas were queit except for one that's always been over protective. I moved the mommas away after 3-4 days and hauled the calves a day or 2 later. I may try the flaps this year--sure cheap enough--looks like about $4 ea.
Do the flaps interfere with the calf's ability to graze or eat feed at all? No. Just make sure the grass has some height to it. Might be a problem with overgrazed paddocks.
So how long do you leave the nose flap in while calves are with the mommas? A week? I've done 4 days and I've done 14 days. I have found, if the calves are too young (under 5 months), they will fight it no matter what, even after 14 days. 7 month old calves are much easier to break and only need a few days.
Then separate them and pull the flaps. Sounds like a good deal if you are shipping the calves.
If you are retaining any calves, and the calves are in the same pasture as the mommas--what is the schedule then? Not sure I understand the question. After you take out the nose-rings, you still have to keep them away from the cows till they dry up.
greybeard
Well-known member
That's what I was wondering, if you can leave them in till the cow dried up, but reading elsewhere, I see they have caused some nostril problems if left in for a long period of time. I've had some drought times that it was a real pain to keep calves separated from mommas because of dried up ponds.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
SL,
I can't comment on the SW - unless YOU consider Columbia MO to be the southwest, 'cause that's about as far west as I've ever been/lived. But, I do know the Southeast, and know year-round calving.
Yeah, if you're not able to keep the calves separated from their dams, they'll go right back to nursing. We usually keep the weaned heifers separated from their dams for at least a month - and in most cases, we keep 'em separated longer, 'cause the bull will be in with the cows, doing cleanup after AI service on the next breeding/calving group.
I can't comment on the SW - unless YOU consider Columbia MO to be the southwest, 'cause that's about as far west as I've ever been/lived. But, I do know the Southeast, and know year-round calving.
Yeah, if you're not able to keep the calves separated from their dams, they'll go right back to nursing. We usually keep the weaned heifers separated from their dams for at least a month - and in most cases, we keep 'em separated longer, 'cause the bull will be in with the cows, doing cleanup after AI service on the next breeding/calving group.
Lucky,
Lets try taking this issue point by point and see if we can agree on at least some of it.
It is my position that the use of nose flaps can cause more harm then good both stress wise in both the cow and calf and financially.
As I understand the video the goal in using nose flaps is to reduce stress on both the calf and the cow.
Is that correct?
Was that your goal in using them? If not what was your goal?
Liz
PS As I said before my name is Liz and SL took the Vince Forster way out.
Lets try taking this issue point by point and see if we can agree on at least some of it.
It is my position that the use of nose flaps can cause more harm then good both stress wise in both the cow and calf and financially.
As I understand the video the goal in using nose flaps is to reduce stress on both the calf and the cow.
Is that correct?
Was that your goal in using them? If not what was your goal?
Liz
PS As I said before my name is Liz and SL took the Vince Forster way out.
mwj
Well-known member
NC Liz 2":2gmdncrp said:
Was there a Medicine Woman with him when he (''SirLoin'') went out? :cowboy:
Lucky,
Now permit me to address the cow first and explain why I said: " use of nose flaps can cause more harm then good "
Without the use of a nose flap a cow's milk will start to decline in both quantity and quality around 7 months of being breed, forcing her calf to seek nourishment elsewhere. And she will start kicking her calf off. And many will totally wean her calf all by herself before she calves with her next calf.
When she has weaned her calf, her calf is no longer allowed to stimulating her utter and teats, her milk will dry up and the openings in her teats will scab over.
Under normal circumstances when the cow is allowed to wean her calf it takes between 5 to 10 days for her milk to dry up and the teats to scab over.
Do you agree?
It is my contention that it is far more stressful for a momma cow, knowing her calf is by her side acting like he/she is starving and there is nothing she can do about it.
Plus the fact her calf will be a constant both all day long while she should be grazing, forcing her to lie down to stop being assaulted by her own calf.
In addition, by using a nose flap you are about doubling the chances that the cow can/will develop Mastitis which can be financially devastating.
IMO the younger the calf you use the nose flap on, the higher the chances of the cow contracting Mastitis because the younger the calf the less the cow will want to kick him/her off and be biologically ready for her milk to dry up and teats to scab over .
Do you agree?
Now can you explain the procedure you used when you used nose flaps?
What did you do to/with the calf when the nose flap was on and what did you do with the calf after it was removed?
What were their weight? ( or should that be : "wait" )
Liz
Now permit me to address the cow first and explain why I said: " use of nose flaps can cause more harm then good "
Without the use of a nose flap a cow's milk will start to decline in both quantity and quality around 7 months of being breed, forcing her calf to seek nourishment elsewhere. And she will start kicking her calf off. And many will totally wean her calf all by herself before she calves with her next calf.
When she has weaned her calf, her calf is no longer allowed to stimulating her utter and teats, her milk will dry up and the openings in her teats will scab over.
Under normal circumstances when the cow is allowed to wean her calf it takes between 5 to 10 days for her milk to dry up and the teats to scab over.
Do you agree?
It is my contention that it is far more stressful for a momma cow, knowing her calf is by her side acting like he/she is starving and there is nothing she can do about it.
Plus the fact her calf will be a constant both all day long while she should be grazing, forcing her to lie down to stop being assaulted by her own calf.
In addition, by using a nose flap you are about doubling the chances that the cow can/will develop Mastitis which can be financially devastating.
IMO the younger the calf you use the nose flap on, the higher the chances of the cow contracting Mastitis because the younger the calf the less the cow will want to kick him/her off and be biologically ready for her milk to dry up and teats to scab over .
Do you agree?
Now can you explain the procedure you used when you used nose flaps?
What did you do to/with the calf when the nose flap was on and what did you do with the calf after it was removed?
What were their weight? ( or should that be : "wait" )
Liz
greybeard
Well-known member
What the basis (studies/documentation) that leads you to your contention that the flaps greatly increases the chances of mastitis?
Graybeard,
And it can be spread within the herd by flies.
For now here is the best I can do.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ll/faq8106
Liz
I can't give you an exact study, but I can tell you it is a well establish fact that injury ( possibly from a calves head butt ) and/or a bacterial invasion are the two main causes of Mastitis.
And it can be spread within the herd by flies.
For now here is the best I can do.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ll/faq8106
Liz
Graybeard,
And it can be spread within the herd by flies.
For now here is the best I can do.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ll/faq8106
Liz
I can't give you an exact study, but I can tell you it is a well establish fact that injury ( possibly from a calves head butt ) and/or a bacterial invasion are the two main causes of Mastitis.
And it can be spread within the herd by flies.
For now here is the best I can do.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ll/faq8106
Liz
