Trying harder....

[inyati13]

Being a part of a structured religion and having a church family has meant a lot to me. I will say that it took me a long time and visiting several churches before finding a church home that I felt at home with.

That may be a part of my problem...
everything was fine as long as I kept my mouth shut and went along with the crowd...but ask a question or offer an opinion and the dogs were quick to turn to snarling...I was big enough that I snarled back...didn't go to church for a dog fight...never found a church that didn't have one brewing...

some will say that I am hard to get along with...I say that if we all follow the golden rule we will all do okay...but I am not one to play by the other guys rules for the entire season...

Church folks are no different than Show Cattle folks. Folks is folks. One group is always going behind the backs of the other groups and telling them someone else's heifer has bad feet, a poor hip, etc. But when the entire group is faced with an outside adversary, they stick together like a pack of wolves. So all is not ill.

I have a friend who is a devout Christian. I went to college with him. He and his wife have been to every Church in a three County area of Elliott County Kentucky. They always hear something that turns them off. Last time I visited him, he and his wife sat at the table and told me about every Church in Elliott, Lawrence and Morgan County. According to them, none were preaching the word of G-d. That was two years ago. I never have gone back for a visit. All they wanted to talk about was how poor the ministry is. I think you got it right. Go out into the woods where you can praise according to your own conscience.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I used to think that a good one meant that everyone was all aligned and people fell in line. I don't think that anymore.

I find disagreement to not just be ok, but actually a good thing. Discussions to gain understanding is good. No person is perfect and no one body of people is going to be perfect. If I'm not perfect, then I need challenged to bring me closer to that, or otherwise I'm just staying idle. Being challenged at the core of your mind is often times hard to take. Some handle that internally, others more outwardly.

It's not the disagreement I find a problem with, it's how we choose to disagree. I could probably be hung and quartered for things my tongue has said. I think and hope that I've become much better at disagreeing with people respectfully. It's taken a pretty good spanking or three, but I'm now glad to have had them.

 

[inyati13]

some people need to be in church 7 days a week , some can get by with 2 or 3 and some can be the just as saved watching td jakes on tv . Its about your personal relationship with Jesus. EVERY SINGLE person has to work out his own salvation. That's a fact. I too have seen far to many people use church as a status symbol or treat it like a country club. I didn't get saved in at an alter In a church btw.

Joel Osteen is a great speaker. Projects a very effective image. Maybe one of the better motivational voices in ministry today.

TD Jakes has the biggest feet.

Most traditional voice, John Hagee.

Benny Hinn and Joseph Prince suggest the whole world wants in on the US TV evangelical business. Everyone knows it is a business. A journalist wrote the following analysis:

Someone needs to say this plainly: The faith healers and health-and-wealth preachers who dominate religious television are shameless frauds. Their message is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is nothing spiritual or miraculous about their on-stage chicanery. It is all a devious ruse designed to take advantage of desperate people. They are not Godly ministers but greedy impostors who corrupt the Word of God for money's sake. They are not real pastors who shepherd the flock of God but hirelings whose only design is to fleece the sheep. Their love of money is glaringly obvious in what they say as well as how they live. They claim to possess great spiritual power, but in reality they are rank materialists and enemies of everything holy.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Believe it or not Ron, I couldn't agree more.

 

[inyati13]

Believe it or not Ron, I couldn't agree more.

Not hard to believe! Has been that way for 50 years.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Seen a TV show once that showed a good portion of Joel Olsteens house. Looked like something a pro athlete, actor, or rock star would own. I personally don't care for him. But he is a good "speaker"

 

[inyati13]

Seen a TV show once that showed a good portion of Joel Olsteens house. Looked like something a pro athlete, actor, or rock star would own. I personally don't care for him. But he is a good "speaker"

It takes a rare person to do what they do. I think if I was younger, I might try to do it myself. :lol: 8)

 

[Caustic Burno]

Seen a TV show once that showed a good portion of Joel Olsteens house. Looked like something a pro athlete, actor, or rock star would own. I personally don't care for him. But he is a good "speaker"

If you ever listen to him he is selling feel good and there are a lot buying.
A rich preacher and a politician are two things I don't trust.
Some are called some volunteer he is a
volunter IMO.

 

[Kingfisher]

You sum birches took a wrong turn on me back there! It's ok I still love ya.
For the fellow that wonders how "MY Cajun microwave" a smoker. I'll show you what I'm cooking up soon. I got me a lil stick welder the other day to weld the bed frames up. If I could get some shade and some time I'll be marching toward the promise land soon enough..:)

 

[LRAF]

You sum birches took a wrong turn on me back there! It's ok I still love ya.
For the fellow that wonders how "MY Cajun microwave" a smoker. I'll show you what I'm cooking up soon. I got me a lil stick welder the other day to weld the bed frames up. If I could get some shade and some time I'll be marching toward the promise land soon enough..:)

Waiting to see that microwave smoker

 

[greybeard]

I have a friend who has a sign in his office that says, "What does love require of me...... today". I don't have the sign but I try to live that way. I fail miserably on a regular basis but I try to remember to do it. Treating family and friends that way is easy most of the time. Strangers are a little difficult to treat that way everyday. People who rub me the wrong way for what ever reason are a challenge. But I try. Back when I coached little league I had a philosophy that everyone of those kids did something right. So I highlighted the positive. It made them better players and eventually better people. It made me a better coach. So when that person comes along and rubs me wrong, I try my hardest to find the positive in them. I try to remember, "What does love require of me..... today".

Good stuff Dave, but nowadays, it has been taken to the extremes. Everybody gets a trophy--everybody brings something to the table--everybody is a unique little snowflake, and it's not only applied to kids.

 

[bball]

I have a friend who has a sign in his office that says, "What does love require of me...... today". I don't have the sign but I try to live that way. I fail miserably on a regular basis but I try to remember to do it. Treating family and friends that way is easy most of the time. Strangers are a little difficult to treat that way everyday. People who rub me the wrong way for what ever reason are a challenge. But I try. Back when I coached little league I had a philosophy that everyone of those kids did something right. So I highlighted the positive. It made them better players and eventually better people. It made me a better coach. So when that person comes along and rubs me wrong, I try my hardest to find the positive in them. I try to remember, "What does love require of me..... today".

Good stuff Dave, but nowadays, it has been taken to the extremes. Everybody gets a trophy--everybody brings something to the table--everybody is a unique little snowflake, and it's not only applied to kids.

I think it has more to do with "everyone expects a trophy, everybody feels like they bring something important to the table, everyone believes they are a unique little snowflake. It's the sense of entitlement and self generated worth people have without the healthy balance of self analysis, introspection and objectivity based in fact. Does being kind or focused on positives promote this? I never considered it until your post GB. It probably reinforces some erroneous beliefs for some people I suppose. Good outweigh the bad big picture speaking??? Pondering

 

[Dave]

I have a friend who has a sign in his office that says, "What does love require of me...... today". I don't have the sign but I try to live that way. I fail miserably on a regular basis but I try to remember to do it. Treating family and friends that way is easy most of the time. Strangers are a little difficult to treat that way everyday. People who rub me the wrong way for what ever reason are a challenge. But I try. Back when I coached little league I had a philosophy that everyone of those kids did something right. So I highlighted the positive. It made them better players and eventually better people. It made me a better coach. So when that person comes along and rubs me wrong, I try my hardest to find the positive in them. I try to remember, "What does love require of me..... today".

Good stuff Dave, but nowadays, it has been taken to the extremes. Everybody gets a trophy--everybody brings something to the table--everybody is a unique little snowflake, and it's not only applied to kids.

I think it has more to do with "everyone expects a trophy, everybody feels like they bring something important to the table, everyone believes they are a unique little snowflake. It's the sense of entitlement and self generated worth people have without the healthy balance of self analysis, introspection and objectivity based in fact. Does being kind or focused on positives promote this? I never considered it until your post GB. It probably reinforces some erroneous beliefs for some people I suppose. Good outweigh the bad big picture speaking??? Pondering

Notice that I said fail miserably a regular basis. For a lot of years I fell timber, ran a long line trap line, and worked as a cowboy. All occupations that don't involve dealing with people. In fact not interacting with other people at all some times for long periods of time. As for the trophies, I never thought about what the league handed out. What I did was compliment a kid on what they did right. Praise them for doing it right. Then slowly turn it to, now you need to work on this..... The kid would react by working hard to do the other things right because they wanted to be praised. I have worked for people who cussed and screamed and I have worked for people who always had a smile on their face. My experience is that a person will work harder and try to it right for the smiling person than they will for the one who is screaming.

 

[pdfangus]

Good stuff Dave, but nowadays, it has been taken to the extremes. Everybody gets a trophy--everybody brings something to the table--everybody is a unique little snowflake, and it's not only applied to kids.

I think it has more to do with "everyone expects a trophy, everybody feels like they bring something important to the table, everyone believes they are a unique little snowflake. It's the sense of entitlement and self generated worth people have without the healthy balance of self analysis, introspection and objectivity based in fact. Does being kind or focused on positives promote this? I never considered it until your post GB. It probably reinforces some erroneous beliefs for some people I suppose. Good outweigh the bad big picture speaking??? Pondering

Notice that I said fail miserably a regular basis. For a lot of years I fell timber, ran a long line trap line, and worked as a cowboy. All occupations that don't involve dealing with people. In fact not interacting with other people at all some times for long periods of time. As for the trophies, I never thought about what the league handed out. What I did was compliment a kid on what they did right. Praise them for doing it right. Then slowly turn it to, now you need to work on this..... The kid would react by working hard to do the other things right because they wanted to be praised. I have worked for people who cussed and screamed and I have worked for people who always had a smile on their face. My experience is that a person will work harder and try to it right for the smiling person than they will for the one who is screaming.

I had a customer once who had regular staff meetings early in the morning with his entire staff....
he would rant and rave and yell and threaten.....
his entire staff had gotten so used to his antics that they totally ignored it all...
if he said anything important it was probably missed by most because they just tuned him out....

 

[bball]

The last few posts on this topic have prompted me to share one of my realizations. I will use Maslow's hierarchy of needs as a reference point. At the base is physiological needs (air, water, food, sleep, etc). Self actualization is the summit and there is some debate as to how many people truly achieve self actualization in their life time. I believe that healthy relationships are key to achieving self actualization. Relationship is a broad term and covers many areas and will mean different things to different people; however, I assert that it is the key to self actualization. For some, it may be a relationship with their Creator. Others, it may be spouse, children, friends, family, co workers, pet, or even government. Or any combination of the above. Relationships (connectivity), provide the vehicle for aspects of self actualization like problem solving, acceptance, spontaneity, and creativity; as well as being paramount in other tiers of the hierarchy such as Esteem, need for Love, and Safety. Once our basic physiological needs are met, I believe relationships to be the most important thing in this life. Now, having said all that, Im not a social butterfly. I dont enjoy most people even- not because i feel superior, but more because it takes a lot of effort and i come away drained. Some people are energized by other people. Im not one and i understand that. So i enjoy my small circle of close companions and family and thats enough for me. I suspect there are some similiar to me, and some who couldnt imagine not being around people frequently. I focus on relationships because, i believe, they are the primary vehicle to fulfillment.

 

[inyati13]

bball, I agree to a large extent. Reaching the apex of the hierarchy involves relationships for most people. However, it is noteworthy that some individuals function well without an abundance of relationships. In fact, there are examples of inventors, philosophers, writers , artist, etc. who performed great works in relative isolation. Of course, that does not mean they were fulfilled.

You made a point that is true of a lot of people, relationships take an enormous amount of time, effort and commitment. Sometimes we take the path of least resistance and simply avoid them.

Last thought, I think TV, social media like Internet etc. has replaced relationships. Witness the users of CT. A forum can provide mental exercise and engagement but it is not a rewarding personal relationship. I consider it a mental engagement that exercises the mind but provides none of the other qualities to achieve self actualization.

PS: fulfillment is a state of mind. I think most people who reach it have learned to discipline their mind.

 

[pdfangus]

I think agreement is a factor....
I have had very few friends with whom I almost always agree...they have become close friends...we mostly see things from similar perspectives and value each other enough to listen one to the other and come to agreement.
the others always have some level of disagreement with me over sometimes trivial and sometimes important things.
the bickering over differences impedes closeness.
sometimes you can choose to ignore it and move on....
other times it is not worth the effort

 

[True Grit Farms]

bball, I agree to a large extent. Reaching the apex of the hierarchy involves relationships for most people. However, it is noteworthy that some individuals function well without an abundance of relationships. In fact, there are examples of inventors, philosophers, writers , artist, etc. who performed great works in relative isolation. Of course, that does not mean they were fulfilled.

You made a point that is true of a lot of people, relationships take an enormous amount of time, effort and commitment. Sometimes we take the path of least resistance and simply avoid them.

Last thought, I think TV, social media like Internet etc. has replaced relationships. Witness the users of CT. A forum can provide mental exercise and engagement but it is not a rewarding personal relationship. I consider it a mental engagement that exercises the mind but provides none of the other qualities to achieve self actualization.

PS: fulfillment is a state of mind. I think most people who reach it have learned to discipline their mind.

Most were weirdos and queer, you can add classical musicians to the list also. Isolation is not a normal behavior for humans. Being a good friend and partner takes a lot of work.

 

[bball]

I think agreement is a factor....
I have had very few friends with whom I almost always agree...they have become close friends...we mostly see things from similar perspectives and value each other enough to listen one to the other and come to agreement.
the others always have some level of disagreement with me over sometimes trivial and sometimes important things.
the bickering over differences impedes closeness.
sometimes you can choose to ignore it and move on....
other times it is not worth the effort

Conflict resolution represents one of the most challenging aspects of human interaction. It truly tests the depths of quality communication, empathy, compromise, problem solving and humility. In all honesty, it is one of my favorite things to observe in life. The different interactions, tools, coping (or lack thereof sometimes) mechanisms, the delicate balance of emotion and logic. It represents one of the most challenging aspects of humanity- resolving disagreements in a healthy, respectful manner. Some disagreements may not have a mutually satisfying resolution. I also agree with you; sometimes, the relationship just isn't worth the hassle, trouble, exhaustion, damage or disappointment.

 

[bball]

bball, I agree to a large extent. Reaching the apex of the hierarchy involves relationships for most people. However, it is noteworthy that some individuals function well without an abundance of relationships. In fact, there are examples of inventors, philosophers, writers , artist, etc. who performed great works in relative isolation. Of course, that does not mean they were fulfilled.

You made a point that is true of a lot of people, relationships take an enormous amount of time, effort and commitment. Sometimes we take the path of least resistance and simply avoid them.

Last thought, I think TV, social media like Internet etc. has replaced relationships. Witness the users of CT. A forum can provide mental exercise and engagement but it is not a rewarding personal relationship. I consider it a mental engagement that exercises the mind but provides none of the other qualities to achieve self actualization.

PS: fulfillment is a state of mind. I think most people who reach it have learned to discipline their mind.

Most were weirdos and queer, you can add classical musicians to the list also. Isolation is not a normal behavior for humans. Being a good friend and partner takes a lot of work.

Grit beat me to it, but I wanted to add that often times, those of humanity who have created the most beautiful things (be it music, literature, art, philosophy, science, poetry,etc) are so many times, the most tormented. I have often wondered dI'd they seek isolation because their minds worked in such a way as that there were so few as any to truly understand them and share human connectivity?