Too much angus!

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CowGirl005":2nwjnapa said:
Ok this may be a dumb question, but I have to ask. (I am from the east coast and fairly new to this board)
When you guys talk about the cows/calves having more "ear", what do you mean by that? Thanks
having brahman influence,
 
CowGirl005":me1y3a42 said:
Ok this may be a dumb question, but I have to ask. (I am from the east coast and fairly new to this board)
When you guys talk about the cows/calves having more "ear", what do you mean by that? Thanks

A lot of people in hot climates cross breed with Brahman cattle to give some breeds more heat tolerance. Brahman have large ears and it's passed on to the calf crop so you end up with an eared cattle that shows the Brahman influence. Depending on where you live, "eared" cattle can be discounted at the sale barns for being a different quality of beef, or finishing differently.
ie: Braford- Brahman x Hereford, Brangus- Brahman x Angus, Beefmasters, Gerts, Charbray,... etc.
 
[/quote]
Good explanation. I sold some just weaned heifers in excellent condition last week (F1 char/angus mostly) and was disappointed in the price paid. Mid eighties for six weights. One of the heifers was F1 Lim/angus (black) and brought the same price as the char/angs (smoky).[/quote]

Mid eighties on six weight eifers is about the average. Those size heifers brought $82 to $94 at Van Zandt County Livestock this past Saturday. http://www.vanzandtcountylivestock.com/ ... EPORT.html

A diffirent sale 185 miles south of us was very similar. At Navasota the 600 -700 lb heifers brought $75 to $90 per cwt. http://www.navasotalivestock.com/market ... _07_11.pdf.

That is all they are worth in this economy.
 
Cypressfarms,
I hate to hear of your bad experience! I will check around but normally Angus or Angus X, without ear sell the very best here. But I have noted several times that people in your area and Texas seem to have a very different market as cattle with ear are a better their seller than in most other places. Are the cattle bought at stockyards in your area taken to feed lots that are more local? All the cattle bought here seem to go northwest of here in colder climates. Did your baldies equal in weight to your beefmaster calves? You already said the beefmaster calves out weighed the Brangus calves.I think I would create more baldies. It's funny that you were told to head toward contintenal when the baldies sold best.
Post what you find out about the other stockyard's sales. This is very interesting to me.
 
O.k.,

I talked in great depth with the two local stockyards, and they both pretty much said the same:

Over the last five years or so, the feedyards (or at least the order buyers) have slowly changed to wanting bigger boned, more growth potential calves. These order buyers are supplying feedlots in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Tennessee. They both stated that many of the black steers have become thinner boned, and smaller framed, thus making them somewhat less desirable. And yes, too much angus seems to be a complaint of theirs, but keep in mind that the Angus down south (I'm talking commercial types) are not as big as the angus that are northern friends have. I was able to get a rundown on each type of calf, and what they normally bring (I'm trying to compare baldies, yellow, grays, etc. here). My best interest would definitely be to go torward a simmi bull.

One caveat though. My heifer calves are exactly what local buyers want in a replacement. So since both of these stockyard managers are friends of mine, I asked them their opinion. For heifers, I could stay the same and just market them in the many replacement sales and make more money. This wouldn't help with the steers.

Crossing with a simmi would allow me to have growthier steers, what the order buyers are looking for, and draw a better price. That simmi bull with my cows would also allow me to keep/market replacements. I wouldnt have that advantage with a Charolais.

Looks like I'll head in the direction of a simmi for next year's breeding. I'm still looking at herefords, though, but I think a simmi might be the best for my herd.
At my dad's place he has around 35 brangus very similar to mine but he/I market all of the heifers later as bred replacements. We just closed a deal to a local cattleman that is buying each bred heifer for $1000. What I will do in the meantime is pool my heifers with his to gain the added value. Just coming off of 6 months of hell my herd has slipped. I haven't been able to spend the time that I need to make sure things are right. That's what we all have to do, though, is adapt to the ever changing environment.

I will say that both stockyard managers were surprised to hear me talk of order buyers as "my customer". They thought it wise to talk to the actual buyers, so they are in the process of setting up an informal meeting with myself and them. I have to buy the beers, but I figure that it'll be worth it.
 
I think its much more important to maintain your market for your females. You are able to earn a premium for them as replacements, you might get a little more for the steers if you change bulls but that probably won't ever match the premium you receive by selling your females as replacements.

So whatever decide to do make sure it won't cut into your heifer market. I think you've got a pretty good handle on it.
 
Have you gotten a good source on a good Simmi bull in your area? And would it make a difference if it were black/black baldie/ or red? What is the advantage of a Simmi bull over the Charolais in your area?
 
cypressfarms":1h88317w said:
O.k.,

I talked in great depth with the two local stockyards, and they both pretty much said the same:

Over the last five years or so, the feedyards (or at least the order buyers) have slowly changed to wanting bigger boned, more growth potential calves. These order buyers are supplying feedlots in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Tennessee. They both stated that many of the black steers have become thinner boned, and smaller framed, thus making them somewhat less desirable. And yes, too much angus seems to be a complaint of theirs, but keep in mind that the Angus down south (I'm talking commercial types) are not as big as the angus that are northern friends have. I was able to get a rundown on each type of calf, and what they normally bring (I'm trying to compare baldies, yellow, grays, etc. here). My best interest would definitely be to go torward a simmi bull.

One caveat though. My heifer calves are exactly what local buyers want in a replacement. So since both of these stockyard managers are friends of mine, I asked them their opinion. For heifers, I could stay the same and just market them in the many replacement sales and make more money. This wouldn't help with the steers.

Crossing with a simmi would allow me to have growthier steers, what the order buyers are looking for, and draw a better price. That simmi bull with my cows would also allow me to keep/market replacements. I wouldnt have that advantage with a Charolais.

Looks like I'll head in the direction of a simmi for next year's breeding. I'm still looking at herefords, though, but I think a simmi might be the best for my herd.
At my dad's place he has around 35 brangus very similar to mine but he/I market all of the heifers later as bred replacements. We just closed a deal to a local cattleman that is buying each bred heifer for $1000. What I will do in the meantime is pool my heifers with his to gain the added value. Just coming off of 6 months of be nice my herd has slipped. I haven't been able to spend the time that I need to make sure things are right. That's what we all have to do, though, is adapt to the ever changing environment.

I will say that both stockyard managers were surprised to hear me talk of order buyers as "my customer". They thought it wise to talk to the actual buyers, so they are in the process of setting up an informal meeting with myself and them. I have to buy the beers, but I figure that it'll be worth it.

Cypress IMOO in having dealt with Simms in the south a Simm bull is a mistake. It gets back to handling the heat, humidity and insects of the jungle. Any retained heifers out of the Simm are going to loose value.
Stay the course market your heifers and take a 10 cent a pound hit on the steer calfs your still ahead.
There is just not a lot of breeds that handle the heat well and put pounds on a calf number one is a Brimmer then the old Tiger girls and Brangus,Beefmaster or Gert girls. For the straight breeds Hereford performs second best to Brimmers in this enviroment.
Again IMO you are trying to fix something thats not broken with the Hereford Bull/ Brangus cross.
 
YOu got to look for quality. Look at the post where the person asks about keeping the bull for breeding... look at the sire... Are you surprised they said too much Angus? The Angus pool has really gotten watered down. They will hit you harder for fine boned than ear.

I know some guys using Simbra bulls and are really happy with them.
 
Brute 23":a8hc6wrj said:
Are you surprised they said too much Angus? They will hit you harder for fine boned than ear.

Yep, I am still surprised about the too much angus comment. Again, the heifers I have are just what local cattlemen seeking replacements want, but the steers that I sell are destined for feedlots north of me and that take a thumping. That has just changed over the last few years if that long. We don't get hit hard for ear here - not sure if your talking heifers or steers, though.
 
Cypress - Same here. I see Charlais brining good prices in Carencro and Mansura. Herefords don't sell real good though. For my 'black' calves, I list them in the Market Bulletin, and I get a premium as replacements.
 
I have very good luck using Simmentals.. and I don't see any more of a problem with them in the heat than any other "non earred" cattle. I use a Simmental bull on everything.. pb simmentals, the 1/2 x 1/2 Simbrahs, and the 3/4 x 1/4 Simbrahs, and get really good calves.

It's like anything other trait .. some individuals are going to be more heat tolerant than others. I bought a bull in Missouri last fall (black, with some white on his head) and he does fine in the heat. It's interesting.. when I go to a registered sale, I really watch for any that are not tolerating the heat well, and stay clear. They seem to pass that trait on to their offspring as well.
 
Here are the results from the Sulphur Springs, TX May Precondition sale. I sorted it by weight, then $/cwt then #head so it is easy to see in a given weight class how breeds and crosses are valued. Description are at the bottom with a link to the site. In short, Okie's are english breeds and Exotics are Continental's.


No Head esc total wt weight $/cwt
10 #1 EXOTIC X STS 2793 279 $124.00
17 #1 EXOTIC X HFS 4826 284 $116.00
22 OKIE HFS 7101 323 $104.00
7 OKIE STS 2313 330 $114.00
21 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 7463 355 $107.00
18 BLACK & BLK BALDY STS 6393 355 $126.00
16 MIXED STS 5729 358 $74.50
10 #1 EXOTIC X STS 3628 363 $125.50
29 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 10580 365 $116.00
27 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 9934 368 $121.00
12 #1 CROSSBRED HFS 4461 372 $113.00
13 EXOTIC X HFS 5250 404 $115.00
6 EXOTIC X STS 2455 409 $123.00
36 CROSSBRED HFS 14918 414 $80.00
66 OKIE HFS 27450 416 $102.50
21 #1 CROSSBRED HFS 8884 423 $110.00
63 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 26794 425 $101.00
55 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 23426 426 $116.00
21 OKIE STS 9014 429 $118.00
19 #1 CROSSBRED STS 8145 429 $120.00
23 MIXED STS 9986 434 $80.50
24 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 10550 440 $115.00
29 BLACK & BLK BALDY STS 12805 442 $116.00
3 HOLSTEIN STS 1357 452 $58.00
7 BRANGUS HFS 3274 468 $102.00
81 OKIE HFS 38024 469 $95.00
49 CROSSBRED STS 23242 474 $107.00
1 JERSY STS 485 485 $40.00
72 #1 OKIE & EXOTIC X HFS 34953 485 $99.00
41 CHAR X STS 19902 485 $115.50
37 CHAR X HFS 17972 486 $104.00
112 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 54666 488 $98.00
66 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 32187 488 $102.00
104 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 50776 488 $113.00
47 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 23097 491 $97.50
19 #1 CROSSBRED STS 9373 493 $114.00
47 #1 CROSSBRED HFS 23381 497 $101.00
35 BLACK & BLACK BALDY STS 17416 498 $114.00
34 BRANGUS X STS 16940 498 $115.00
50 1 1/2 OKIE & X STS 24969 499 $109.00
24 MIXED HFS 11995 500 $75.00
69 BRANGUS X HFS 35090 509 $100.50
49 CHAR X STS 25196 514 $109.50
24 CROSSBRED STS 12380 516 $79.50
11 MIXED STS 5719 520 $86.50
7 DAIRY X STS 3695 528 $52.50
1 HOLSTEIN STS 534 534 $61.00
5 TIGER STRIPE HFS 2729 546 $116.00
102 1 1/2 OKIE & X HFS 56688 556 $97.50
98 OKIE & EXOTIC X HFS 54664 558 $99.00
44 #1 OKIE & EXOTIC X STS 24599 559 $109.50
35 CROSSBRED HFS 19597 560 $88.50
82 CROSSBRED STS 45949 560 $104.00
94 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 52922 563 $98.00
94 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 53129 565 $97.00
58 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 32746 565 $99.50
98 BLACK & BLK BALDY X HFS 55477 566 $101.50
65 1 1/2 OKIE & XBRED STS 36924 568 $103.00
51 CHAR X STS 28977 568 $108.50
54 BLACK & BLK BALDY STS 30666 568 $109.00
51 #1 OKIE & EXOTIC X HFS 29018 569 $98.50
90 #1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 51269 570 $104.50
9 BRANGUS HFS 5141 571 $96.50
67 CHAR X HFS 38438 574 $102.00
75 BRANGUS X STS 43055 574 $106.00
121 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 69454 574 $106.50
100 #1 CROSSBRED HFS 57497 575 $99.50
42 BLACK & BLK BALDY STS 24168 575 $109.00
51 #1 CROSSBRED STS 29413 577 $108.50
85 BLK & BLK BALDY HFS 50162 590 $99.50
87 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 53344 613 $99.00
94 #1 CROSSBRED STS 58147 619 $107.00
84 #1 EXOTIC & X FEEDER HFS 52224 622 $95.50
85 CROSSBRED HFS 55341 651 $94.00
101 OKIE & EXOTIC X HFS 65771 651 $96.25
9 OKIE STS 5871 652 $80.00
103 #1 CROSSBRED HFS 67177 652 $94.00
8 DAIRY X STS 5241 655 $54.00
17 BRANGUS BALDY HFS 11143 655 $96.00
59 BLACK & BLK BALDY STS 38626 655 $104.50
92 OKIE & EXOTIC X STS 60331 656 $102.00
17 OKIE HFS 11167 657 $75.00
81 CROSSBRED STS 53324 658 $96.50
57 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 37527 658 $99.50
69 CHAR X HFS 45447 659 $94.75
139 BLACK & BLK BALDY X HFS 91640 659 $96.00
29 CHAR X STS 19111 659 $102.00
157 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 103941 662 $99.50
42 EXOTIC X HFS 27830 663 $95.75
6 TIGER STRIPE HFS 3990 665 $110.00
66 #1 CROSSBRED STS 44003 667 $100.75
54 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 36157 670 $94.50
113 BRANGUS X STS 75677 670 $102.00
17 BRANGUS HFS 11421 672 $96.50
13 BRAH X STS 8903 685 $70.00
68 #1 FEEDER STS 49043 721 $99.00
5 BRANGUS BALDY HFS 3636 727 $96.00
13 MIXED STS 9560 735 $42.50
59 OKIE & EXOTIC X HFS 43603 739 $91.00
11 TIGER STRIPE HFS 8188 744 $103.50
75 #1 CROSSBRED HFS 55918 746 $90.00
41 #1 EXOTIC X FEEDER HFS 30594 746 $90.75
85 OKIE & EXOTIC STS 63373 746 $96.00
60 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 44893 748 $87.75
61 BLACK & BLK BALDY HFS 45624 748 $91.75
68 #1 OKIE & EX X FEEDER HFS 51159 752 $87.50
20 BRANGUS HFS 15048 752 $95.00
97 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 73107 754 $94.25
118 #1 CROSSBRED STS 89238 756 $97.50
33 BRANGUS HFS 25036 759 $92.00
53 #1 FEEDER STS 40638 767 $96.50
66 OKIE & EXOTIC X FEEDER ST 51027 773 $96.00
50 CROSSBRED STS 39307 786 $84.50
10 BRANGUS BALDY HFS 7900 790 $108.00
7 BRAH X HFS 5581 797 $85.50
12 BRANGUS HFS 9958 830 $99.00
17 1 1/2 CROSSBRED HFS 14292 841 $77.50
85 #1 CROSSBRED STS 71568 842 $92.25
44 BRANGUS HFS 37088 843 $86.50
81 #1 FEEDER STS 68677 848 $92.25
96 #1 FEEDER HFS 81661 851 $83.00
3 HOLSTEIN STS 2563 854 $52.50
63 1 1/2 CROSSBRED STS 53839 855 $91.25
8 FEEDER HFS 7516 940 $71.50
20 BRANGUS HFS 19370 969 $83.00
51 FEEDER STS 50690 994 $87.25

DESCRIPTIONS:
EXOTIC- Limousine- Simmental- Charolais (some are black)
EXOTIC X – Crossed with Limousine-Simmental-Charolais(some are black)
OKIE- Hereford-Angus-Red Angus and any cross of these
BRANGUS X – Brangus bulls on mixed or Brangus cows
CHAR X- Char bulls on mixed cows
#1 CROSSBRED- Probably first cross 1/8th – 1/25th ear or less
#1 ½ CROSSBRED-Little more Brahman influence than #1 cross
CROSSBRED- More cross than #1 or #1 ½ - plainer type-conformation ear and bone
FEEDER - Cattle weighing 650# and up (some 650# cattle go back to grass if good conditions exist)
BALDY- Cattle with white faces
All other descriptions are self-explanatory

http://www.sslivestockauctions.com/netb ... sheets.asp
 

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