Think it would work?

[JHH]

I know of two individuals who take there older cows that dont calve with the rest of the bunch to the sale barn. There is generally nothing wrong with them. Some may be heifers some old cows some young cows. These guys are creatures of habit and they do it every year.I have been thinking about buying 5 head, calving them out late, and rebreed to a herf bull and take rebred cow, calf back to the barn in the fall or spring wichever it happens to be and sell them.

These are pure bred black angus cows. Think it would work to my benifit?

Buy them in april calve in may. pull calves and wean early hopefully rebreed back earlier and sell them in feb.?

Any other thoughts on this? I have the space for them.I got another 40 acres to use.

 

[JHH]

Guess I didnt say how much. I seen some from one of the guys sell on Sat. ( cow prices went down a little here) These should have been Fall calvers. if he kept them he would have to calve late or early how ever you look at it. Calve in Jan. 1200 lbs. A couple 5 yr olds and some 8 yr olds. 600.00 each could have got them. These cows looked good no scrubs or problems.

 

[Idaman]

You should get close to $600 for the calf after you wean it and then the cow less the feed is profit.

 

[JHH]

You should get close to $600 for the calf after you wean it and then the cow less the feed is profit.

I was figuring 500 for the calf. They would be straight bred angus. This is what I was thinking, sometimes it doesnt work out that way, so I thought I might better ask the wise ones

 

[traderaaron]

What is the cow really worth today to you, then you'll know if it will work or not.

A 1200# Cow at today's slaughter is worth around $600 in good condition.

If you sell the Cow and Calf in a year, using today's prices, you'll sell $600+500=$1100.

Less one year of expense at $25/month=$300.

$1100-$300-$600=$200 profit.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

>>Less one year of expense at $25/month=$300.<<

Seems high. Is this some sort of "All In" average?

$15-$18 per head (or pair) per month is more normal.

The variables are 1. Receiving processing 2. Shipping in 3. Protein supplement 4. Shipping Out

So $1,100 (I agree with this figure) minus $198 (11 mo times $18) minus $12 (Receiving work-worm-vaccinate-tags-ect) minus $15 (shipping in) minus $45 (.50 per head per day for protein supp for 3 months) minus $15 (shipping out) minus $600 (original cost) minus $33 (interest on purchase price for 12 months) EQUALS $182 profit. But you need to adjust for death loss of cows (say 3%) and calving percentages (I use 85%) so minus $18 and minus $75 EQUALS $89 profit.

 

[JHH]

You guys are still thinking that those cows will be worth that in a year. The 500 calf seems right. The 89 for profit seems more logical. Death loss I dont know. If you have them you will lose some but I would hope I wouldnt lose cows. Calves you just dont know.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Buy em nowish and sell them on the summer market and you could actually run up a couple of dollars on the cows. Cows can be had for .50 to .58 now and it sure wouldn't surprise me for them to be over .60 next summer.

 

[bigag03]

>>Less one year of expense at $25/month=$300.<<

Seems high. Is this some sort of "All In" average?

$15-$18 per head (or pair) per month is more normal.

The variables are 1. Receiving processing 2. Shipping in 3. Protein supplement 4. Shipping Out

So $1,100 (I agree with this figure) minus $198 (11 mo times $18) minus $12 (Receiving work-worm-vaccinate-tags-ect) minus $15 (shipping in) minus $45 (.50 per head per day for protein supp for 3 months) minus $15 (shipping out) minus $600 (original cost) minus $33 (interest on purchase price for 12 months) EQUALS $182 profit. But you need to adjust for death loss of cows (say 3%) and calving percentages (I use 85%) so minus $18 and minus $75 EQUALS $89 profit.

I know everyone figures their running costs differently, but the last SPA data that I saw shows an average of $590 per year to run a cow/calf unit. This number is all inclusive (interest, fuel, feed, labor, etc). So, I don't think $300 is high. If anything it is low.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

>>Less one year of expense at $25/month=$300.<<

Seems high. Is this some sort of "All In" average?

$15-$18 per head (or pair) per month is more normal.

The variables are 1. Receiving processing 2. Shipping in 3. Protein supplement 4. Shipping Out

So $1,100 (I agree with this figure) minus $198 (11 mo times $18) minus $12 (Receiving work-worm-vaccinate-tags-ect) minus $15 (shipping in) minus $45 (.50 per head per day for protein supp for 3 months) minus $15 (shipping out) minus $600 (original cost) minus $33 (interest on purchase price for 12 months) EQUALS $182 profit. But you need to adjust for death loss of cows (say 3%) and calving percentages (I use 85%) so minus $18 and minus $75 EQUALS $89 profit.

I know everyone figures their running costs differently, but the last SPA data that I saw shows an average of $590 per year to run a cow/calf unit. This number is all inclusive (interest, fuel, feed, labor, etc). So, I don't think $300 is high. If anything it is low.

LOL....No wonder there is so much poverty in ranching. I can lease land all over for $18 per unit per month including care and mineral.

Any schmoe who is paying $590 per year is losing his arse (and rightfully so).

 

[bigag03]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to do it for less, I am simply presenting numbers. Keep in mind that the number presented was an average, meaning that there are people on both sides of that as well...yes, some were even higher. However, as has been debated on these boards many times, if you really calculate EVERYTHING and not just what you feel like including, I think most people would be surprised at how close that number is.

 

[traderaaron]

The numbers I used were very close to my own numbers from this year, including all costs.

The prices I always use are the prices today since I am buying a Cow today and not at some imaginary point in the future.

Generally if you buy a Cow that has a built in profit the day you buy her (meaning she is too cheap) at some point in the future you can sell here at full value or higher.

Personally I try not to buy Cows with anything less than $150 a head profit the day I buy them.

 

[40-4171]

>>Less one year of expense at $25/month=$300.<<

Seems high. Is this some sort of "All In" average?

$15-$18 per head (or pair) per month is more normal.

The variables are 1. Receiving processing 2. Shipping in 3. Protein supplement 4. Shipping Out

So $1,100 (I agree with this figure) minus $198 (11 mo times $18) minus $12 (Receiving work-worm-vaccinate-tags-ect) minus $15 (shipping in) minus $45 (.50 per head per day for protein supp for 3 months) minus $15 (shipping out) minus $600 (original cost) minus $33 (interest on purchase price for 12 months) EQUALS $182 profit. But you need to adjust for death loss of cows (say 3%) and calving percentages (I use 85%) so minus $18 and minus $75 EQUALS $89 profit.

I know everyone figures their running costs differently, but the last SPA data that I saw shows an average of $590 per year to run a cow/calf unit. This number is all inclusive (interest, fuel, feed, labor, etc). So, I don't think $300 is high. If anything it is low.

LOL....No wonder there is so much poverty in ranching. I can lease land all over for $18 per unit per month including care and mineral.

Any schmoe who is paying $590 per year is losing his arse (and rightfully so).

The $590 is going to include family expense, depreciation, etc and is much more realistic than $300.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

>>The $590 is going to include family expense, depreciation, etc and is much more realistic than $300.<<

What the heck is "family expense"?

Is "Family Expense" tax deductible?

I need to get me some "Family Expense" going if so............

 

[Herefords.US]

>>The $590 is going to include family expense, depreciation, etc and is much more realistic than $300.<<

What the heck is "family expense"?

Is "Family Expense" tax deductible?

I need to get me some "Family Expense" going if so............

A NEW Obama tax deduction in lieu of the expiring "Bush" tax breaks!

It only applies to registered Democrats making under $250,000 a year, so YOU probaby don't personally qualify for it, WLM! :lol: :tiphat:

George

P.S. This is not a political statement - just a display of my weird sense of humor!

 

[rocket2222]

>>The $590 is going to include family expense, depreciation, etc and is much more realistic than $300.<<

What the heck is "family expense"?

Is "Family Expense" tax deductible?

I need to get me some "Family Expense" going if so............

Errrr, If you're farming for a living, try groceries, mortgage, insurance, fuel, telephone, electric, kids through collage, etc etc, not everyone's a hobby/weekend farmer. Depends where you live too, mine cost me $280 last year, that didn't include mineral, (forgot to add that in) fuel, my time, fencing, any of the above, blah, blah, blah.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

All that other is not business expense, it is personal expense. Try deducting groceries on you schedule F sometimes.

And in my example on my stocker cow deal, I get the mineral as part of the $15 or $18 per month.

$18 per head per month includes salt, mineral, care.

 

[Herefords.US]

All that other is not business expense, it is personal expense. Try deducting groceries on you schedule F sometimes.

And in my example on my stocker cow deal, I get the mineral as part of the $15 or $18 per month.

$18 per head per month includes salt, mineral, care.

I'm paying more than that for my grazing lease alone, WLM. I guess I need to come up your way looking for land to lease!

George

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I think you could find that in your neck of the woods. That is purely for a 9 month stocker cow deal. Nothing long term at all.

Buy cows, let em calve and grow the calf and sell the whole deal back. Good money, just not long term. The folks with the big acreage are hurting for cash flow but none will lease long-term.

Cash paid monthly on the lease!

 

[rocket2222]

All that other is not business expense, it is personal expense. Try deducting groceries on you schedule F sometimes.

And in my example on my stocker cow deal, I get the mineral as part of the $15 or $18 per month.

$18 per head per month includes salt, mineral, care.

Actually a lot of what you call personal expense can be deducted (or a % of it) as a business expense if the farm set up properly as a business. But that's just splitting hairs. Whether its a personal or business expense, if farming is your only income, they have to pay for it all one way or another. If all the cows had to do was show a profit on what they cost to keep, I'd be farming full time tomorrow.

As far a groceries go, you need a better accountant, last one I talked to said "feed" was a deductable item.