The fires in California

[Australian Cattleman]

The reports of the fires are horrific in California. Imagine 1800 homes burnt so far. Australia's capital Canberra lost 500 homes about 4 years ago that was a tremendous blow to the city. It never ceases to amaze me as to why some houses burn in the street and others don't.
Keep safe
Colin

 

[dun]

It's intriguing to watch fire burn pattersn in high winds. When there are 50-60 mph winds pushing a fire, all it takes is a small irregularlity to change the wind flow and the fire will push with the highest wind and be sucked away from the area that has the lower winds. In some ways it's almost like a river. It's just that the fire river is miles wide instead of only a couple of hundred feet or yards wide. Another thing that's spooky is being 25 miles out to sea and having ash from the fires landing on and around you.

 

[chrisy]

I have been following the fires on the NEWS, as I have friends who live in Thousand Oaks California, they are on red flag watch. Hopefully the fires will bought under control, and doused out soon. Everyone out there keep safe and God Bless....take care Chris.

 

[Lammie]

Okay, I am going to open up a Pandora's Box here, but do you think that people building their multi milion dollar homes in an ecologically sensitive area, like, I don't know, the side of a forrested mountain, has anything to do with these losses?

I hate it that these folks are losing everything, and it is going to be a really hard blow on the economy, but I hate the thought that everyone's insurance is going to go up because these people wanted to put there houses in places where maybe houses aren't meant to go to begin with.

Some of those homes were just out in small towns in the woods, and I am not necessarily talking about those, but those big homes in Malibu, well, it seems to me that if you choose to build there, maybe you shouldn't be able to get insurance. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Most of those folks are celebrities anyway.

Don't throw things at me. It's early.

I feel the same way about beach houses, too.

 

[dun]

Okay, I am going to open up a Pandora's Box here, but do you think that people building their multi milion dollar homes in an ecologically sensitive area, like, I don't know, the side of a forrested mountain, has anything to do with these losses?

I hate it that these folks are losing everything, and it is going to be a really hard blow on the economy, but I hate the thought that everyone's insurance is going to go up because these people wanted to put there houses in places where maybe houses aren't meant to go to begin with.

Some of those homes were just out in small towns in the woods, and I am not necessarily talking about those, but those big homes in Malibu, well, it seems to me that if you choose to build there, maybe you shouldn't be able to get insurance. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Most of those folks are celebrities anyway.

Don't throw things at me. It's early.

I feel the same way about beach houses, too.

The beach/bluff/flood plain ones are the ones that get my goat. Back in the late 50s we leased an area outside of San Diego that was the flood plain for the San Diego River. Most times it was just a damp spot, if that, in the middle of the river bed. Come flood time and the water through there would be 10-15 feet deep and a half a mile wide. People sued the county to be allowed to build homes there then sued the county for allowing them to build there when they got flooded out. Because it was a known flood plain they couldn;t get flood insurance. MORONS

 

[Lammie]

Okay, I am going to open up a Pandora's Box here, but do you think that people building their multi milion dollar homes in an ecologically sensitive area, like, I don't know, the side of a forrested mountain, has anything to do with these losses?

I hate it that these folks are losing everything, and it is going to be a really hard blow on the economy, but I hate the thought that everyone's insurance is going to go up because these people wanted to put there houses in places where maybe houses aren't meant to go to begin with.

Some of those homes were just out in small towns in the woods, and I am not necessarily talking about those, but those big homes in Malibu, well, it seems to me that if you choose to build there, maybe you shouldn't be able to get insurance. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Most of those folks are celebrities anyway.

Don't throw things at me. It's early.

I feel the same way about beach houses, too.

The beach/bluff/flood plain ones are the ones that get my goat. Back in the late 50s we leased an area outside of San Diego that was the flood plain for the San Diego River. Most times it was just a damp spot, if that, in the middle of the river bed. Come flood time and the water through there would be 10-15 feet deep and a half a mile wide. People sued the county to be allowed to build homes there then sued the county for allowing them to build there when they got flooded out. Because it was a known flood plain they couldn;t get flood insurance. MORONS

Honestly Dun! I see housing being built in places I have seen stand in water and flood badly. I blame housing developers for it. The people that buy those things are basically uneducated on what they are getting. All they know is that it is a pretty new house on the shore or on that mountain slope with the pretty views! But then, when it all washes downhill in the mudslide or burns up in the fire, then everyone is suprised.

Duh! They are called barrier islands for a reason!

There are a lot of wild fires going on right now, and part of the reason is that we didn't allow fires to burn for so long, which is a part of the natural scheme of things. People built houses there thinking that there would be no fires because there hadn't been in so long. But to rebuild is just wrong. I think that once would be enough.

 

[backhoeboogie]

We have the same things happen here every so often. 35 MPH wind across the dry prairie is a 35 MPH fire. If it is dry, you cannot brush hog because it will start a fire. You have to plow a fire break. Such fires are the exact reason I no longer use wooden posts.

The real problem in California right now is 100 MPH winds. You are helpless with 20 MPH winds and dry conditions. There is no stopping embers from spreading it.

On the floods - Hundreds of acres of concrete and asphalt are added to cities each year. It causes run-off and flooding for places that never flooded before. We have also seen that in Texas this year. The concrete, additional roofs, and parking lots, over hundreds of acres collectively, creates flood zones that did not exist previously. Some of the folks used good judgement but "progress" put them in harm's way.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Lammie I agree with you. You know you can always tell an idiot, but you can't tell them much.
There are programs sposored by Forest Service to educate people about living in a fire prone area. It doesn't do a heck of alot if the people living there will not listen to the fire fighters when they tell them how to protect their homes.
I know of different volunteer fire departments going out and offering to help them and out of 20 homeowners only about 2-4 will take them up on it. Alot see it as a way to get their place cleaned up for free, but don't understand that the FF's won't come back year after year to hold their hands.
They no longer do the "white rock, black rock" system. White meant savable, black meant not savable. Too many people found out about it and would paint rocks white or would throw the black rocks in the weeds.
Some of these homes are in areas that are death traps, so there is a different rating system.
Talk to some of these FF's about how ungrateful some of these people are.
Common sense no longers rules.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Call me an idiot.

I can plow up the entire yard and soak it with 4 inches of water. With single digit humidity and hudred mile an hour winds, it'll be dry within a few hours. Nothing can be done in the way of prevention short of living in a cave.

You lose electricity which shuts off your well. Burning embers will blow right into your house even with everything plowed up for a mile around. Even if you save your house you still lose all your sheds, barns and contents. The insurance company will give you 10% of your house insurance value and that's it.

I wouldn't choose to live there in the first place, but I have fought many a brush fire. Better to fight it on a neighbor's property before it gets to yours.

 

[GMN]

What started these fires to begin with? I watched the special on TV last night, and I had never heard of the phenemom of fire tornadoes, awesome, but very scary!

I feel for these people maybe its not wise to build houses where they did, but its their choice, and to lose everything you own must be beyond horrible. Yes they have money, yes they have insurance, but I can't imagine losing everything and just starting all over, can U?

GMN

 

[Jim62]

Sure they have insurance.

And we are paying for it.

 

[Lammie]

What started these fires to begin with? I watched the special on TV last night, and I had never heard of the phenemom of fire tornadoes, awesome, but very scary!

I feel for these people maybe its not wise to build houses where they did, but its their choice, and to lose everything you own must be beyond horrible. Yes they have money, yes they have insurance, but I can't imagine losing everything and just starting all over, can U?

GMN

No, I can't imagine losing everything. That happens sometimes in spite of our best efforts to the contrary. I do, however, try to take steps to avoid disaster, and that means not living one the sea shore or on a dry hillside, where when it does rain, it washes the whole house away, or on a barrier island that is designed to take the brunt of storms.

It is bad enough when you thought you were okay only to have the area grow up around you, turning your gently babbling brook into a destructive torrent when all the run off dumps into it. I have seen houses that were high and dry wash away because of that.

I don't guess that there's anything to be done about the latter, but I think that we shouldn't be allowed to live just anywhere because we have the money to build a house. Not when it has a negative impact on everyone paying for home owner's insurance. You can't even get home owner's policies from some major carriers in this state because of all the claims.

 

[hurleyjd]

Due to the lush growing conditions this year we will have a lot of dry grass as soon as the first frost hits. The volunteer frire departments will be so busy they cannot catch up. Just you wait and see. Here in East Texas.

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

You don't need to live in Southern California or be a celebrity or live in a multi million dollar home to experiance what those people are. We could have the same conditions here or anywhere in a rural setting. Would you have everyone live in a city with hydrants where there is fulltime paid fire departments? It is absurd to fault those people for who they are what,they have or where they choose to live. Boogie's points are well taken and I understand fully. I have responded to far too many fires gone bad in the wrong conditions.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

What started these fires to begin with? GMN

I know one was arson, not sure about other.

Another factor never mentioned is that intensive grazing can take care of a lot of fuel too. Some of the country around So Cal used to be ranches that were MANAGED. Now you have the combination of increased human population, fire suppression, and the "let nature be" (even though regular fire and grazing are as natural as anything and no management is still a form of human interference).

 

[Alice]

Van is in Los Angeles as I type. He walked two blocks to a restaurant around noon California time and said his eyes were burning by the time he got there. He said that when you walk outside you're immediately hit with the smoke smell and that smoke haze. He likened the haze to a dust storm in Lubbock, TX.

I liken it to when we were surrounded by grass fires last year.

Alice

 

[mitch2]

I think a problem with most fires, is us putting them out. The environment needs the burns for regeneration. When they are continuously put out, the undergrowth accumulates and makes it exponentially worse when eventually it does start a fire. This is my opinion/theory.

The "Witch" fire was started by an exploding transformer. That is what my brother heard anyway. He lives in SoCal and was evacuated Sunday night. He and his family live in Ramona, not directly in the city, but there. Reports are his house did not burn, but burned right into his backyard.

His house is just an average house, anywhere where "normal" ;-) people live his house would by an average $200K to $250K, but in SoCal it is like a $750K house :roll: His homeowners insurance is in the range of $5000 a year, he told me at one time.

Michele

 

[I luv herfrds]

GMN it is a fire whirl not a fire tornado and the ding dong that coined it needs a lesson in Wildland Fire Behavior.
No such thing as a fire tornado.
A fire whirl is like a dust devil except it is full of flames instead of dust. It is mainly created by the fire it's self as it creates it's own unstable weather.

 

[GMN]

GMN it is a fire whirl not a fire tornado and the ding dong that coined it needs a lesson in Wildland Fire Behavior.
No such thing as a fire tornado.
A fire whirl is like a dust devil except it is full of flames instead of dust. It is mainly created by the fire it's self as it creates it's own unstable weather.

They called it a fire tornado on the news, sure looked liked a tornado shape to me.

GMN

 

[chrisy]

A few have said about people wanting to live in these places that have floods and fires, are mad, it is not the same thing as wanting to live in tornado alley, people have to live where they can, and can afford, if you know this happens then you take your chances like living on a fault line, on near a volcano, you know one day everything will go pear shaped.