The Bull Pen

[Randi]

Here's some of the boys. We breed our top end cows for 21 days to the Red Angus, Shorthorn and Black Angus bulls. The Char bulls go out at the same time on the remainder of the herd. Then after the first cycle the Angus and Shorthorn are pulled and we run those cows with the Char bulls. This eliminates the desire to keep any second cycle heifer calves as replacements, and adds hybrid vigour to the later born calves off our best cows.

202D , Red Angus
Sire: Red 5L Blazin Grand 518-285x
Reg: 1955093
Spring 2017

Fall 2017

22C, Red Angus
Sire: Red K F Real Deal 14Z
Reg: 1872658
Fall 2017

671C, Red Angus
Sire: Red H70 Quantock 734A
Reg: 1863335
http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 9=5F51595A
fall 2017

81D, home raised bull, Angus
Sire: Red Blakes Hustler 140B
Reg: 1786083
Fall 2017

326C, Shorthorn
Sire: Saskavalley Oatmeal 4Z
Reg: [CAN]M478868
Spring 2016

Fall 2017

117A, Charolais
http://bmmi.cgenregistry.ca/cca/Anilk.a ... kef6lDSg==

Fall of 2016

135A
http://bmmi.cgenregistry.ca/cca/Anilk.a ... HApL0B2g==
Spring of 2017

Spring of 2016

72C
http://bmmi.cgenregistry.ca/cca/Anilk.a ... 3rNfGZBQ==
Fall 2017

112D
http://bmmi.cgenregistry.ca/cca/Anilk.a ... lrZNVBwA==
Fall 2017

 

[Fernowranch]

Beautiful looking bulls you have there Randi

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Not much of a char. man but those are nice...

 

[Randi]

They make for a profitable return over the black and red calves around here. It took me a lot of years to talk my husband into using Char bulls!

 

[Supa Dexta]

Havent seen Dubcharo around lately - he's got some nice white'ones,

 

[Bestoutwest]

I really like 671C bull, and it doesn't look like there's a loser in that bunch of charlois. Nice looking cattle.

 

[BRYANT]

They make for a profitable return over the black and red calves around here. It took me a lot of years to talk my husband into using Char bulls!

Then why not breed every thing to the Char. bulls ?

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

They make for a profitable return over the black and red calves around here. It took me a lot of years to talk my husband into using Char bulls!

Then why not breed every thing to the Char. bulls ?

It seems like she was pretty clear on why in her explanation? She uses what they see as their best bulls for replacement females on their best cows. They see the charolais cross as being a terminal one. Therefore, her happiness that they make them some real $ when they go to sell since they sell all their charolais influenced calves. What's not to get?

 

[Randi]

They make for a profitable return over the black and red calves around here. It took me a lot of years to talk my husband into using Char bulls!

Then why not breed every thing to the Char. bulls ?

Because we want British based females. So we have to get them somehow. So we breed our best cows to the Angus and Shorthorn bulls, for one cycle.

 

[BRYANT]

They make for a profitable return over the black and red calves around here. It took me a lot of years to talk my husband into using Char bulls!

Then why not breed every thing to the Char. bulls ?

Because we want British based females. So we have to get them somehow. So we breed our best cows to the Angus and Shorthorn bulls, for one cycle.

Thanks ; you got some nice looking bulls. Not trying to debate or anything but does the Char cows not work well where you are from.

They make for a profitable return over the black and red calves around here. It took me a lot of years to talk my husband into using Char bulls!

Then why not breed every thing to the Char. bulls ?

It seems like she was pretty clear on why in her explanation? She uses what they see as their best bulls for replacement females on their best cows. They see the charolais cross as being a terminal one. Therefore, her happiness that they make them some real $ when they go to sell since they sell all their charolais influenced calves. What's not to get?

AS FOR THIS SMART REMARK
1) I did not ask you the question
2) if the money makers is Char cross and I am in it to make a living off of, which they are you can tell that by the amount of bulls they have, why not use Char bulls.
3) if heifers is what you want is the reason you don't use Char bulls, why not take the EXTRA money you make off the cross and buy your heifers. There has been pages of debate of how bad it is to raise F1 Brahman crosses ,mostly from northern people, because of the hit you take on the steers. Well if the Char sell better than the reds and blacks sounds like they may be taking a hit on all to get some heifers ???
4) lets see here breed the worst female with a Char and get calves that out sell reds and blacks, wonder what kind of calves them good cows would raise out of a Char bull ?????

I can go on and on with what ifs but will stop. I just ask a simple question to ''Randi'' had nothing to do with ''artesianspringsfarm'' I don't care if they breed to a mini Zebo if that what they like. I just did not see why they were not using Char if thats where the money is. and no I do not raise Char. cattle and I am not out trying to push them.

Randi I have looked at a lot of your cattle pictures and think you all have nice cattle. I am in no way trying to tell you what to do or how to raise cattle. It is a long ways from where you live to Okla. I would not even know how to start to raise cattle in your part of the world, I would be out looking for them long eared Brahman crosses and they sure would not do well. This last part I would not have even posted is someone had not had to shoot a smarty remark trying to make out like I was stupid. Everyone does things different I was just looking at the money side of it.
KB

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

AS FOR THIS SMART REMARK
1) I did not ask you the question
2) if the money makers is Char cross and I am in it to make a living off of, which they are you can tell that by the amount of bulls they have, why not use Char bulls.
3) if heifers is what you want is the reason you don't use Char bulls, why not take the EXTRA money you make off the cross and buy your heifers. There has been pages of debate of how bad it is to raise F1 Brahman crosses ,mostly from northern people, because of the hit you take on the steers. Well if the Char sell better than the reds and blacks sounds like they may be taking a hit on all to get some heifers ???
4) lets see here breed the worst female with a Char and get calves that out sell reds and blacks, wonder what kind of calves them good cows would raise out of a Char bull ?????

Geez, I really wasnt out to strike a nerve. Just to be clear, are these four questions for me or for her before I proceed to answer? Would hate to answer a question not directed at me on a public forum.

In all seriousness, her answer was exactly mine because she had already explained why and how they use Char and it was totally clear. I love seeing posts like Randi's that explain their logic on their breeding program and the followup questions sometimes strike me as less than helpful. That said, sorry to offend and Happy New Year.

 

[BRYANT]

AS FOR THIS SMART REMARK
1) I did not ask you the question
2) if the money makers is Char cross and I am in it to make a living off of, which they are you can tell that by the amount of bulls they have, why not use Char bulls.
3) if heifers is what you want is the reason you don't use Char bulls, why not take the EXTRA money you make off the cross and buy your heifers. There has been pages of debate of how bad it is to raise F1 Brahman crosses ,mostly from northern people, because of the hit you take on the steers. Well if the Char sell better than the reds and blacks sounds like they may be taking a hit on all to get some heifers ???
4) lets see here breed the worst female with a Char and get calves that out sell reds and blacks, wonder what kind of calves them good cows would raise out of a Char bull ?????

Geez, I really wasnt out to strike a nerve. Just to be clear, are these four questions for me or for her before I proceed to answer? Would hate to answer a question not directed at me on a public forum.

In all seriousness, her answer was exactly mine because she had already explained why and how they use Char and it was totally clear. I love seeing posts like Randi's that explain their logic on their breeding program and the followup questions sometimes strike me as less than helpful. That said, sorry to offend and Happy New Year.

Maybe you know why they do what they do but does not mean everyone does. People do things different in different parts of the country. If they would come see my stock they would probably have lots of questions due to different ways people do things, its suppose to be 7 deg. here Sat night and we will more than likely have 105 deg. plus around June so we raise cattle different what they will. Its no big deal to me ,I'll never live much father north than where I am now I was just wondering about the Char. deal and yes it is a public form so I ask. Just for the record I'm not a beginner at this been around cattle most of my 54 yrs.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

AS FOR THIS SMART REMARK
1) I did not ask you the question
2) if the money makers is Char cross and I am in it to make a living off of, which they are you can tell that by the amount of bulls they have, why not use Char bulls.
3) if heifers is what you want is the reason you don't use Char bulls, why not take the EXTRA money you make off the cross and buy your heifers. There has been pages of debate of how bad it is to raise F1 Brahman crosses ,mostly from northern people, because of the hit you take on the steers. Well if the Char sell better than the reds and blacks sounds like they may be taking a hit on all to get some heifers ???
4) lets see here breed the worst female with a Char and get calves that out sell reds and blacks, wonder what kind of calves them good cows would raise out of a Char bull ?????

Geez, I really wasnt out to strike a nerve. Just to be clear, are these four questions for me or for her before I proceed to answer? Would hate to answer a question not directed at me on a public forum.

In all seriousness, her answer was exactly mine because she had already explained why and how they use Char and it was totally clear. I love seeing posts like Randi's that explain their logic on their breeding program and the followup questions sometimes strike me as less than helpful. That said, sorry to offend and Happy New Year.

Maybe you know why they do what they do but does not mean everyone does. People do things different in different parts of the country. If they would come see my stock they would probably have lots of questions due to different ways people do things, its suppose to be 7 deg. here Sat night and we will more than likely have 105 deg. plus around June so we raise cattle different what they will. Its no big deal to me ,I'll never live much father north than where I am now I was just wondering about the Char. deal and yes it is a public form so I ask. Just for the record I'm not a beginner at this been around cattle most of my 54 yrs.

Bryant, I have ZERO doubt from what I've seen you post that you know your way around cattle. I also like to ask questions. I obviously read the tone of yours wrong. Have a great day.

 

[BRYANT]

Good day to you and happy new years.

 

[etmountianman71]

Good looking animals.

 

[Randi]

AS FOR THIS SMART REMARK
1) I did not ask you the question
2) if the money makers is Char cross and I am in it to make a living off of, which they are you can tell that by the amount of bulls they have, why not use Char bulls.
3) if heifers is what you want is the reason you don't use Char bulls, why not take the EXTRA money you make off the cross and buy your heifers. There has been pages of debate of how bad it is to raise F1 Brahman crosses ,mostly from northern people, because of the hit you take on the steers. Well if the Char sell better than the reds and blacks sounds like they may be taking a hit on all to get some heifers ???
4) lets see here breed the worst female with a Char and get calves that out sell reds and blacks, wonder what kind of calves them good cows would raise out of a Char bull ?????

Ok, I will try to answer this.

1) makes sense. We are running quite enough cows to make a living off of it.

2) BUT, the reason we are breeding our own females, is that we have a VERY hard time finding the kind of females we want. First off, is finding the breeds we want. There are not a lot of Shorthorn x Angus heifers to be found.

Second....well, there isn't many people that are willing to sell the very best of their heifers off....

and 3rd I know the performance of my cows, I can choose what cows I deem the best and breed them to the bulls I want. And get the kind of heifers I want. I know their dams have good temperament, good udders, good feet and good performance, and consistently calve in the first cycle. And I find that the heifers that we raise, generally produce bigger calves, and almost always stay in the herd longer.

3) by breeding the bottom end cows.... I am talking cows that have conformation issues (ie. poor feet, poorer udders), cows that calve in the second cycle, or that bounce around a bit. And cows that don't consistently produce a high performance calf, or that are on the bottom of the average. I believe a lot of people would think my bottom end cows are pretty good... We weaned, and sold most of our steer calves Oct 13, those 91 steers, born March and April, and a couple of May calves averaged 630 lbs. Then we weaned and sold our Char heifer calves on Oct 27. The 60 or so heifers we sold, averaged 609 lbs.

4) I believe you asked why not Charx cows? Well, we have some, we bought a few that we got a deal on, and they are good cows. But, I find that as a general rule those Char cows are 200+ lbs heavier than our British based herd. I like cows in the 1300-1400 lb range, but the lightest of the Char cows is 1450 lbs. And another reason for not using the Charx replacements, is that I don't have to worry about maternal traits when I buy bulls. We just look at BW, CE and WW on the Char bulls. Where with the Red bulls we are looking for those traits, but also milking ability and maternal traits.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

All look great. I like your "home grown' bull.

 

[Randi]

All look great. I like your "home grown' bull.

I really like him too. His dam is the black cow in the pictures above. That's her as a heifers, just after she had him.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That fits. Takes a really good cow to make a great bull.

 

[elkwc]

2) BUT, the reason we are breeding our own females, is that we have a VERY hard time finding the kind of females we want. First off, is finding the breeds we want. There are not a lot of Shorthorn x Angus heifers to be found.
Second....well, there isn't many people that are willing to sell the very best of their heifers off....
and 3rd I know the performance of my cows, I can choose what cows I deem the best and breed them to the bulls I want. And get the kind of heifers I want. I know their dams have good temperament, good udders, good feet and good performance, and consistently calve in the first cycle. And I find that the heifers that we raise, generally produce bigger calves, and almost always stay in the herd longer.

First very nice, functional cattle. Second thanks for the detailed response. It was along the lines I felt it would be. Your response about keeping heifers is very similar to that of most of us that keep heifers. It would be very hard here to purchase your females and have the type of females you desire. I get satifaction out of seeing the results of our matings and also find it is cost effective to save heifers when I consider the cost of culling the purchased females.