Temperament, Tenderness and Carcass Quality

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Victoria

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With the talk on here lately about calm cattle I thought I'd share a few statements from an article I read today from the Oct. issue of Canadian Cattlemen magazine. The title is Temperament, Tenderness and Carcass Quality (Heather Smith Thomas) and it states that easy-going cattle make more profit.

One study was done by Rhonda Vann, animal scientist from Mississippi State Univ. in collaboration with Texas A&M. Her research showed that temperament has a direct effect on weight gain or loss.

Other studies have also been done on this issue, one at Iowa State Univ. figured out the profit/loss from 3 types of animals - docile, restless and agressive. "...The docile cattle gained better and there were more Prime and Choice grades in this group, along with more acceptability for the Certified Angus Beef program. They also had lower mortality rates than cattle in the aggressive category...."

"...Looking at feedlot gain, death loss, costs of treatment, quality, yield grade and other performance criteria, the docile group averaged $62.15 more profit per head than aggressive cattle and $49.09 more profit per head than restless cattle. The aggressive cattle averaged a net loss of $7.26..."

"...Individuals with undesirable temperament are difficult to get close to, upset when confined - likely to crack into the fence - and more difficult to process. Several researchers use excitabilty and movement when measureing temperament, such as how much the animal fights while in the holding chute (some producers call this the "rattle index") and how fast the animal leaves the chute. Cattle with a high exit speed tend to be more temperamental. Vann uses an infared timer to measure each animal's exit speed when leaving the chute. Her research showed that animals coming out of the chute the fastest had poorer carcass quality and were less tender after their 120 days in the feedlot, compared with docile cattle."
 
My cattle always have a "high exit" speed when they know I am loading up a bunch to take them to the sale. haha
 
The only sure thing is that a high strung animal has a better chance of getting itself injured. They'll go over fences and do everything else you can imagine.

But, as far as the head gate goes, I have a cow who bellers the entire time she is in a head gate. Her tongue seems to hang out two feet while she is slobbering and in a panic. We have had three of her calves butchered and her offspring is the cream of the crop. Best steaks ever. So I have to disagree with the info just based on my experiences with that cow. As long as you don't put her in a chute or head gate, she is not a high strung wild animal that would get herself injured.
 
As we discussed a while back, the Florida Bull Test is recording "Exit Velocity" on their calves this year. I wonder if the buyers will pay attention? I doubt it.

All other things being equal, a gentle calf will make better beef every time.
 
backhoeboogie":1traklmz said:
The only sure thing is that a high strung animal has a better chance of getting itself injured. They'll go over fences and do everything else you can imagine.

But, as far as the head gate goes, I have a cow who bellers the entire time she is in a head gate. Her tongue seems to hang out two feet while she is slobbering and in a panic. We have had three of her calves butchered and her offspring is the cream of the crop. Best steaks ever. So I have to disagree with the info just based on my experiences with that cow. As long as you don't put her in a chute or head gate, she is not a high strung wild animal that would get herself injured.

Did she ever have a bad chute experience, if you bought her that might explain it. I am sure there are going to be exceptions to the rule, there always is.
We have always shipped the ones that act like idiots in the chute, nothing to do with tenderness, they are just the ones that are difficult to work with.
 
MikeC":2iq8yp3m said:
As we discussed a while back, the Florida Bull Test is recording "Exit Velocity" on their calves this year. I wonder if the buyers will pay attention? I doubt it.

All other things being equal, a gentle calf will make better beef every time.

I've noticed a difference at the sales here. I've never heard of exit velocity until this article but the wild ones aren't selling as well as they used to.
 
Victoria":2kfgrwpx said:
Did she ever have a bad chute experience, if you bought her that might explain it. I am sure there are going to be exceptions to the rule, there always is.
We have always shipped the ones that act like idiots in the chute, nothing to do with tenderness, they are just the ones that are difficult to work with.

This cow was bought as a bred cow for a bargain price. She has been the best cow out of that particular auction. In fact, she is the last one left of the lot from that sale. I have sold all the rest.

Anyway, I can't tell you her history since I didn't know who brought her to the auction barn. I wish I would have picked up 10 just like her. But as you know, you win and lose when you buy cows like that. A good friend of mine is a well known vet. I have seen others drop his name in this forum before. He tells me she is 1/2 charlais and 1/2 angus.

She hates the chute. I have never mistreated her.
 
Victoria":10fu5r1f said:
With the talk on here lately about calm cattle I thought I'd share a few statements from an article I read today from the Oct. issue of Canadian Cattlemen magazine. The title is Temperament, Tenderness and Carcass Quality (Heather Smith Thomas) and it states that easy-going cattle make more profit.

One study was done by Rhonda Vann, animal scientist from Mississippi State Univ. in collaboration with Texas A&M. Her research showed that temperament has a direct effect on weight gain or loss.

Other studies have also been done on this issue, one at Iowa State Univ. figured out the profit/loss from 3 types of animals - docile, restless and agressive. "...The docile cattle gained better and there were more Prime and Choice grades in this group, along with more acceptability for the Certified Angus Beef program. They also had lower mortality rates than cattle in the aggressive category...."

"...Looking at feedlot gain, death loss, costs of treatment, quality, yield grade and other performance criteria, the docile group averaged $62.15 more profit per head than aggressive cattle and $49.09 more profit per head than restless cattle. The aggressive cattle averaged a net loss of $7.26..."

"...Individuals with undesirable temperament are difficult to get close to, upset when confined - likely to crack into the fence - and more difficult to process. Several researchers use excitabilty and movement when measureing temperament, such as how much the animal fights while in the holding chute (some producers call this the "rattle index") and how fast the animal leaves the chute. Cattle with a high exit speed tend to be more temperamental. Vann uses an infared timer to measure each animal's exit speed when leaving the chute. Her research showed that animals coming out of the chute the fastest had poorer carcass quality and were less tender after their 120 days in the feedlot, compared with docile cattle."

Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.
 
Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.

So, I guess the brammers are known for their easy manners?

I can show you wild Herefords, Angus, Chars, Limis, Brangus, and prolly all the rest.

Just because you had a wild Limi doesn't make them all that way.

You need to get out of the Rose Garden more. :roll:
 
MikeC":1108r6yl said:
Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.

So, I guess the brammers are known for their easy manners?

I can show you wild Herefords, Angus, Chars, Limis, Brangus, and prolly all the rest.

Just because you had a wild Limi doesn't make them all that way.

You need to get out of the Rose Garden more. :roll:

I am not in the rose garden worst bulls I have ever dealt with are Char's and Limmi's as a whole, I know thats hard for a Char breeder to except. Just fact. I didn't say that other breeds didn't have nut cases those two have just been the worst I have dealt with and sired more loose screws.
All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights. It is like watching a Ford and Dodge truck commericial both claiming to have the best truck somebody is lieing there also.
 
Caustic Burno":odnkw473 said:
MikeC":odnkw473 said:
Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.

So, I guess the brammers are known for their easy manners?

I can show you wild Herefords, Angus, Chars, Limis, Brangus, and prolly all the rest.

Just because you had a wild Limi doesn't make them all that way.

You need to get out of the Rose Garden more. :roll:

I am not in the rose garden worst bulls I have ever dealt with are Char's and Limmi's as a whole, I know thats hard for a Char breeder to except. Just fact. I didn't say that other breeds didn't have nut cases those two have just been the worst I have dealt with and sired more loose screws.
All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights. It is like watching a Ford and Dodge truck commericial both claiming to have the best truck somebody is lieing there also.

Worst bulls I've ever dealt with are Angus. But.......... I ain't dumb enough to believe they are all that way. :roll:

All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights.


Painting with a pretty broad brush there ain't you? To call every association and every seedstock producer a liar shows me what type of intelligence I'm dealing with here. :shock:

Get them rose briars out of your butt. :lol:
 
MikeC":1v2ae3gg said:
Caustic Burno":1v2ae3gg said:
MikeC":1v2ae3gg said:
Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.

So, I guess the brammers are known for their easy manners?

I can show you wild Herefords, Angus, Chars, Limis, Brangus, and prolly all the rest.

Just because you had a wild Limi doesn't make them all that way.

You need to get out of the Rose Garden more. :roll:

I am not in the rose garden worst bulls I have ever dealt with are Char's and Limmi's as a whole, I know thats hard for a Char breeder to except. Just fact. I didn't say that other breeds didn't have nut cases those two have just been the worst I have dealt with and sired more loose screws.
All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights. It is like watching a Ford and Dodge truck commericial both claiming to have the best truck somebody is lieing there also.

Worst bulls I've ever dealt with are Angus. But.......... I ain't dumb enough to believe they are all that way. :roll:

All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights.


Painting with a pretty broad brush there ain't you? To call every association and every seedstock producer a liar shows me what type of intelligence I'm dealing with here. :shock:

Get them rose briars out of your butt. :lol:

Truth just hurts don't it Mikey read anyone of the breeds quality and traits. Thay all must have hired the same guy to write them. You say Chars are the best of everthing Frankie says Angus and it goes on and on somebody aint bellying up to the bar. I am sorry you picked Chars to be your breed. There is a Char bull in the pasture right now and I still think his attitude sucks. If that is true by what Victoria posted then his calves are the sorriest in the pasture and should bring the least money.
 
MikeC":3blk5op1 said:
Caustic Burno":3blk5op1 said:
MikeC":3blk5op1 said:
Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.

So, I guess the brammers are known for their easy manners?

I can show you wild Herefords, Angus, Chars, Limis, Brangus, and prolly all the rest.

Just because you had a wild Limi doesn't make them all that way.

You need to get out of the Rose Garden more. :roll:

I am not in the rose garden worst bulls I have ever dealt with are Char's and Limmi's as a whole, I know thats hard for a Char breeder to except. Just fact. I didn't say that other breeds didn't have nut cases those two have just been the worst I have dealt with and sired more loose screws.
All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights. It is like watching a Ford and Dodge truck commericial both claiming to have the best truck somebody is lieing there also.

Worst bulls I've ever dealt with are Angus. But.......... I ain't dumb enough to believe they are all that way. :roll:

All of the associations and seedstock producers lie about there breed being the best for calfing to weaning weights.


Painting with a pretty broad brush there ain't you? To call every association and every seedstock producer a liar shows me what type of intelligence I'm dealing with here. :shock:

Get them rose briars out of your butt. :lol:

Maybe lie is a bit too strong of a word. How about stretch the truth. Goes back ot figures don;t stretch the truth but truth stretchers figure.
How that for being PC

dun
 
Every time my cattle go through the chute its a bad experence for them. Like its always a bad experence for me to go to the doctors office. Even if you don't get a shot you always think its a possibillity.
 
backhoeboogie":mqk7uczd said:
Victoria":mqk7uczd said:
Did she ever have a bad chute experience, if you bought her that might explain it. I am sure there are going to be exceptions to the rule, there always is.
We have always shipped the ones that act like idiots in the chute, nothing to do with tenderness, they are just the ones that are difficult to work with.

This cow was bought as a bred cow for a bargain price. She has been the best cow out of that particular auction. In fact, she is the last one left of the lot from that sale. I have sold all the rest.

Anyway, I can't tell you her history since I didn't know who brought her to the auction barn. I wish I would have picked up 10 just like her. But as you know, you win and lose when you buy cows like that. A good friend of mine is a well known vet. I have seen others drop his name in this forum before. He tells me she is 1/2 charlais and 1/2 angus.

She hates the chute. I have never mistreated her.

I never meant to imply that you have mistreated her and if you read it that way my apologies. Just thinking of a cow we have that we bought as a heifer. She must have been moved around the back by having gates slammed on her because she will get to the gate then run through tucking under as far as she can. They have great memories so that was why I thought that maybe the last place your cow was at might have taught her to really hate the chute.
 
Caustic Burno":1rucrr1r said:
Victoria":1rucrr1r said:
With the talk on here lately about calm cattle I thought I'd share a few statements from an article I read today from the Oct. issue of Canadian Cattlemen magazine. The title is Temperament, Tenderness and Carcass Quality (Heather Smith Thomas) and it states that easy-going cattle make more profit.

One study was done by Rhonda Vann, animal scientist from Mississippi State Univ. in collaboration with Texas A&M. Her research showed that temperament has a direct effect on weight gain or loss.

Other studies have also been done on this issue, one at Iowa State Univ. figured out the profit/loss from 3 types of animals - docile, restless and agressive. "...The docile cattle gained better and there were more Prime and Choice grades in this group, along with more acceptability for the Certified Angus Beef program. They also had lower mortality rates than cattle in the aggressive category...."

"...Looking at feedlot gain, death loss, costs of treatment, quality, yield grade and other performance criteria, the docile group averaged $62.15 more profit per head than aggressive cattle and $49.09 more profit per head than restless cattle. The aggressive cattle averaged a net loss of $7.26..."

"...Individuals with undesirable temperament are difficult to get close to, upset when confined - likely to crack into the fence - and more difficult to process. Several researchers use excitabilty and movement when measureing temperament, such as how much the animal fights while in the holding chute (some producers call this the "rattle index") and how fast the animal leaves the chute. Cattle with a high exit speed tend to be more temperamental. Vann uses an infared timer to measure each animal's exit speed when leaving the chute. Her research showed that animals coming out of the chute the fastest had poorer carcass quality and were less tender after their 120 days in the feedlot, compared with docile cattle."

Horsefeathers if this was true you couldn't give away a Char or a Limmi bull. Craziest calfs I ever had were half limmi never retained one heifer out that bull but they brought top money.

Caustic, I disagree with you that this study is horsefeathers. I think it is one reason that the Limousins have docility EPD's now, they probably have been losing some customers. Times are changing, as more of these studies come out I think we'll see the feedlot guys getting more interested in temperament. Cargill is sure paying attention and changing the way they do things. I think ranchers that pay attention to this now will be getting a higher profit a few years from now. Then those with bad tempered bulls will have a harder time moving them.

We've never had a Limousin, the reason why is that we were told that the majority of the bulls are mean, true or not that is the reputation they have here. We did have Charolais bulls for over 10 years and never had a mean one. We bought them from a good breeder who culled both cows and bulls for temperament and spent lots of time with the bulls before he sold them.
 
Anyway...the post was accurate in my book. We won't keep a less than mellow cow on the place and most of our gals have to be pushed out of the chute.
I do believe that the post had to do with feeder cattle gain and grade related to temperment...the bulls seem to jump the fences. Oh yeah...the bulls we used last spring were all mellow...I've got the straws in a cup on my desk to prove it.
Just my two bits worth...DMc
 
rkm":3mbtl3js said:
Every time my cattle go through the chute its a bad experence for them. Like its always a bad experence for me to go to the doctors office. Even if you don't get a shot you always think its a possibillity.

We have a few cows that want in the chute, they've been fed oats there and you can stab a cow as much as you want as long as she's got a bucket she's happy. :lol:

So what is your rattle index at the doctors? :lol:
 
It is still horse dung do you think the big operators are petting there cows. There are operations that dont pen every other day do you think these are gentle cattle not hardly.
By your study all the steaks will be tough thats B.S.
You couldn't sell 3/4's of the Brangus they would be so tough you would need a chainsaw to cut one. Same goes for the Tigers and they are the number one momma cow of the south.
I hauled some Brangus the other day that would fight a cirlce saw and they brought top dollar. I guess someone forgot to tell the Cargill buyer that bought them not to bid.
 

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