50/50Farms
Well-known member
He's already worth 20 million to the cartels after they heard Trump was thinking of doing a fence along with the wall.
Sustainable Agriculture?
- Thread starter Logan52
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RDFF
Well-known member
Kenny, I'm somewhat familiar with those programs... but they DO place alot of restrictions on the farming possibilities of the property as I understand it too. I've only "heard" about them from others though, haven't checked into the details personally, so everything I've heard is "heresay"..........
That could have some pretty limited protection against "development" happening on your own personal farm property... but it won't prevent the neighborhood around your farm from being overrun by it. I wouldn't expect that anybody concerned about this issue would be looking for opportunities to sell their farm to be split up into a subdivision anyway...
I'm more concerned about the loss of the agricultural community to "investment seekers/developers". And those often can be both developers AND agriculturalists... One very aggressive family here is in both real estate... AND farming... in a big way. They farm big, buy land whenever it is available... do a pretty good job of farming IMO..., but ALWAYS are angling to maximize that land value and $$$ generated... primarily by developing it to its fullest RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY potential at the time, and farming the rest. One farm that they owned for many years was located along a river... sandy ground, tough farming it, sometimes flooded..., they got a conditional use permit for the whole farm many, many years ago and opened a small sand pit .... did really minor mining there to start with... but... after maybe 20 years of small time sand operations, suddenly they went big time on it... with a goal of eventually working toward turning the whole farm into high $$$ lakefront home sites. Mega$$$............... which means that they can buy up a whole lot more land in the area. Usually means that a number of homes will go in on those farm acres as well,... to the max allowable by the ordinances that are in place, and then farm the rest. Sell the lots/homes, buy more land, repeat.
Nobody else wanting to "farm the land" can compete to buy it anymore. No concern whatsoever for retaining the agricultural integrity of the area.
So, do we need to change the "laws" to prevent this kind of degradation of the ag community? If we do, that then of course means that peoples farms that otherwise WOULD have that "development potential" and value, no longer WILL have that... so a "government taking" by law? Would the government then need to compensate those landowners for this taking?
kenny thomas
Well-known member
I think Jan can speak for the farmland protection better than I can. The Forestry part is actually pretty popular in areas near cities like Charlottesville VA. The area once was tobacco plantations that were let go or planted to pine after it was no longer productive. These large landowners don't want to see it developed but know that's where the value is. They sign a conservation easement and get paid what the development value is. They must keep it in timberland and do it in a somewhat productive manner. They still enjoy being able to use it and cut timber.
I'm very conflicted with these issues.
On the division on land, I get every one wants their own piece ground but it's not for the better. By no fault of their own these people do not realize they are destroying the land and the communities they are moving to.
The other problem is we are not seeing the benefits of losing these "competitors" in the market. When this ranch land gets busted up their market share gets swallowed up by welfare cattle on the ranchets or cattle from foreign countries.
I've seen this before where the mid-size guys cant survive. You have to be so small it's a hobby or so big you can chase growth. Its basically grow or die. There is no room for a person who just wants to provide for their family with what they have.
On the division on land, I get every one wants their own piece ground but it's not for the better. By no fault of their own these people do not realize they are destroying the land and the communities they are moving to.
The other problem is we are not seeing the benefits of losing these "competitors" in the market. When this ranch land gets busted up their market share gets swallowed up by welfare cattle on the ranchets or cattle from foreign countries.
I've seen this before where the mid-size guys cant survive. You have to be so small it's a hobby or so big you can chase growth. Its basically grow or die. There is no room for a person who just wants to provide for their family with what they have.
RDFF
Well-known member
I'm with you on the "conflicted"... what I've written already indicates that...
This discussion is intended to help to formulate some form of informed response... I would like to make this a part of discussions on the local level going forward, to see if we can at least ensure that we "have and keep this on our radar", and potentially we can implement some form of action that would help to address it. That's why I'm looking for all you're opinions...
What would you consider hobby, midsize, large, and big enough to support a family? I ask because I think there's a huge misconception on this from the public. The folks moving in around us think 5 acres is big. 5 acres wouldn't hold our bulls during the non breeding season.
dave_shelby
Well-known member
I know a few folks that farm out by Charlottesville that have lost some large leases where landowners are wealthy finance people. The conservancy convinces them that cattle are bad.
dave_shelby
Well-known member
I hate this Earl Butz go big or go home ethic too. I see guys who are always growing their business gobbling up farms and doing custom work for many miles around. (Strangely enough they have guys working for them who think they can follow suite). Another local large dairy netted a lot of money from covid payments and turned around and bought big tract of prime land.
I still argue this is due to government policy and fed credit. Its compounded by players who get money in high growth areas entering farm markets for security.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
So what do you consider more dangerous to the mid-size guy? The big guys or the droves of hobby ranchers with small Tracts , a job in town and no need to make a real profit but still hauling a competing product to town. And still getting fsa money and tax breaks. I realize both angles. But In my experience it's hard to compete with someone who doesn't need to make a profit. Even those that don't understand what profit is.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I consider the big packing corporations as the biggest and only real problem except for maybe politicians.
The people who don't care about making a profit are not going to be much competition anyways. Our only real competition is the beef being imported from Brazil.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
I disagree ky. The majority of stocker calves at auction come from small part time producers. That competition has to effect the full time producers. I don't disagree about Brazil and the Packers but thats a conversation.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
Interesting way of thinking here. Everyone wants more competition and hates their biggest customer. Lol
The no profit, I don't count my labor, can't do math, group is the biggest, immediate, danger.
They keep the industry divided and operating on a level that is not sustainable. Until that is solved we have no chance of taking on packers or foreign beef, imo.
Ky hills
Well-known member
We've been told for years as a justifiable reason for imports is that we (USA) could not supply our demand for beef domestically.
The packers may be the biggest customer, but that does not mean that the situation is a good one. They have maneuvered and leveraged themselves to have control over the supply chain on both ends.
The end result is that they can import beef cheaper from South America and it's a multi national company with no loyalty to anything except profit.
We have sold out our food security and that is a national security issue if there ever was one.
I don't know if you can really put a number of head to that. There are probably better names for each category but it's all I could think of. It has more to do with how they operate.
Off the top of my head, if you have a few acres tied to your house and raise a few animals for consumption, maybe a bottle calf or two, sell a couple calves, I would consider it hobby.
If you have an off the farm job, other businesses, etc along with your cattle operation, retired to your farm/ ranch, I would consider that mid-size.
If you are majority cattle and living off it, or its a completely seperate investment intity, I would consider it a large operation.
There are obviously exceptions to all those and a lot of grey but I do believe that seperates out most the people.
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No worries... In nature as with humanity...once we reach that critical stage where people are hungry, food is scarce, war starts.....while all that is happening....the buildings and infrastructure will come down off the land, the land will be reclaimed and returned back to farming.
Sell my land for the 1 million (offers) to the Dallas epicenter of trucking- container and distribution hub? No, when I look at those cute faces of my "welfare" cattle (as Brute 23 calls it) coming out of the field running towards me...for a treat...priceless. It's like I'm the Most Important person in the world to them.
With my boot stuck in the mud, having to take a piss up against the barn with a cow licking my shoulder....I have my piece of land and the grounded freedom it offers me. I don't need to make a profit (as callmefence said)...there's a lot of power in that....until say, extreme forces are poisoning your cattle.
Sell my land for the 1 million (offers) to the Dallas epicenter of trucking- container and distribution hub? No, when I look at those cute faces of my "welfare" cattle (as Brute 23 calls it) coming out of the field running towards me...for a treat...priceless. It's like I'm the Most Important person in the world to them.
With my boot stuck in the mud, having to take a piss up against the barn with a cow licking my shoulder....I have my piece of land and the grounded freedom it offers me. I don't need to make a profit (as callmefence said)...there's a lot of power in that....until say, extreme forces are poisoning your cattle.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
I've thought about this quite a bit. Using size or percent of income would be pretty complicated with lots of potential work around. Average annual gross sales would be the way to go imo.
Something small enough where everyone with enough skin in the game can play but big enough to keep the ones that don't out.
I purpose 50,000 a year in verifiable sales. A average over any five year period. .....
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
That's very romantic. Do you get a tax break on your pets??
Sure do...I like filling out that Form F...I'm finding where I'm making mistakes...I foresee this year I will turn a profit, in the black. They're not pets...if God deems it...greater things (and things have already have increased) are in store for me. When you're on the right path like LVR and myself... everything become easier and Divine... wealth, freedom and happiness is ours. I know some people that are never happy.
I'm not ready to regulate it with the govt yet.
From my own experience, it gets abused. We have been fighting to maintain the ag exemption on a property in town for years. The property is only a few acres but because of these minimum acres clauses ever time the wind blows some on wants to take it. We continue to fight it has always been in agriculture and that it is part of a larger, ag operation which has worked so far. I credit that to our local tax board handing it. If it were to go to a state level or our local board gets taken over by transplants, I don't know that we will be able to continue that.
