Steers grazing standing corn - pics

[inbredredneck]

I must be missing something, 300cd per acre and 180 bpa would work out to a 5.25 adg.

 

[TexasBred]

I must be missing something, 300cd per acre and 180 bpa would work out to a 5.25 adg.

If they're off feed half of that time because of acidosis the gain would be reduced considerably. Knowing they eat corn ears first, shucks, aka husks, secondly and stalks last this could be an ongoing subclinical problem.

 

[SRBeef]

My ADG for the group I took in last spring off of corn was right around 3.1 lb/day for the period they are on corn. The CD for an acre of 180 bu corn is obviously a lot higher than the 300 number I threw out. I don't want to claim 500.

If you look at page 3 of this DeKalb seed corn grazing guide they use 180 CD for western Canada.

https://www.dekalb.ca/Western/Products/Corn/Documents/corn_grazing_guide.pdf

That number can be all over the map for many different reasons and in different usage systems. My 300 is just a reasonable number to use for the US Midwest. The key thing is to watch them. My group has pretty much finished the grain in the area open to them now. I am not going to move the wires for a couple days.

Today I saw them eating the upper leaves and stalks. That's good for awhile - about like feeding baled stalks or grazing harvested stalks. I will open a bit more fresh corn to them when they get this eaten down some more.

I know what acidosis is. I did see some before I started limiting the area available. It has not been a problem with steers introduced in small and controlled areas.

3.1 lb per day (from my Cattlemax program) over the last 90 days = 279 lb. The steers pictured above averaged about 800 lb when I weighed them just prior to starting them on corn. They should go to the processor at 1050-1100 lb which is my goal for steers about 13 mo old.

I'm sure there are many reasons that can be found that this will not work. That's fine. You can do it your way, I'll do it my way. I am just sharing some of the things I have learned in an effort to find a way to make it work and tweak the system that has been used in Canada for years.

Jim

 

[inbredredneck]

Using the numbers given here by the op, in my opinion a person would need to see at the very least 500 cd per acre to balance grazing standing corn against paying someone to harvest it. I would revisit the numbers Jim don't use dekalb's numbers use your own. You know how long the steers where in the field before you moved them. You know how many are in each group. I certainly would take another look at this if I was you. Something is terribly off.

 

[1wlimo]

Nice cattle and system SR. I have grazed corn with sheep in the past and that worked well, but no snow. There are a few tring this anhour or so north on Edmonton. Kind of have to think if they figure it will pay there it should work very well for a lot of people in better climates.

How do your steers get on when there is 2 feet of snow?

 

[SRBeef]

Using the numbers given here by the op, in my opinion a person would need to see at the very least 500 cd per acre to balance grazing standing corn against paying someone to harvest it. I would revisit the numbers Jim don't use dekalb's numbers use your own. You know how long the steers where in the field before you moved them. You know how many are in each group. I certainly would take another look at this if I was you. Something is terribly off.

I used to pay some one to harvest the corn, then pay to haul it, then pay to dry it... then what do I do, build storage and buy shell corn back at $6-7+ per bu? Believe me it did NOT pencil out, at least at $3-4 corn at the time. At $7-8 corn you are correct - I should be out there picking up ears myself!

Since I can plant and raise the corn relatively economically, if not harvest it, grazing it at about 3 lb/day does pencil out on my current small scale and without any harvesting capability but building. Thank you for your thought-provoking questions and concern.

I have considered finding and old pull type corn picker and wire bin and picking ears and separating the feeding of corn from the grazing of the stalks but that adds a lot of labor time which I don't have.

Jim

 

[SRBeef]

Nice cattle and system SR. I have grazed corn with sheep in the past and that worked well, but no snow. There are a few tring this anhour or so north on Edmonton. Kind of have to think if they figure it will pay there it should work very well for a lot of people in better climates.

How do your steers get on when there is 2 feet of snow?

As long as you pick a variety of corn that stands well, holds it ears yet is still palatable, providing grazing despite deep snow is one of the advantages of this system. In Alberta I would definitely go with the recommendations as in the DeKalb seed corn brochure I linked to a couple places above. Variety selection is very important in this system.

Here's a photo from last winter I found quickly, I have some pictures with deeper snow yet but can't find it right now and have to get off the computer. We don't have as much snow so far, only 3-4" on the ground but it was about 6 below zero F here this morning.

Good luck.

Jim

(these two steers pictured are part of last year's group that averaged 3.1 ADG on corn)

 

[Farmerjon]

Jim, a few questions as your situation peaks my interest. Sorry for the list, but as I said, you peaked my interest. One of the things I want to cut are my grain costs. 10 years ago I could buy my grain cheaper than raising and processing it. I have considered shocking some corn and running it through an electric shredder (for yard waste). So I have some specific things that come to mind, I hope you don't mind my questions.

What are your row widths? 30"

How many rows do your steers get? N/A

At the beginning of the season do you provide only one row and see how long it holds out? Then determine amount and how often you move them? It is important to understand how cattle will graze standing corn. They will trample 40 acres to the ground until they have found and eaten every ear. Only then will they eat husks and leaves. Only when those husks are gone will they start eating the stalk, first the upper portion, then only if very hungry will they eat the lower stalk. This is good because that is where the nitrates mostly end up.So the first offerings are less so they consume it more completely and then as they learn the routine they can have an extra row or two to increase your length of time before having to move wire again? Don't worry, you answered it on the next question.

Have you found moving them more often provides better feed conversion/use of the feed?

As I said somewhere, layout of the grazing standing corn is important. I have found that planting it in strips 100 ft wide x 1/4 mile long or whatever length you want works well. There are semi-permanent (single14 ga steel wires 32" high(nose height) on steel tee posts) electric wires along both long sides. I make 6 passes with a 6 row 30" planter (=90' theoretically)along the 1/4 mi length. They start at a slinky gate lane about in the center. I drive over the corn rows with a 4 wheeler and put up aluminum cross wires on reels and P step in posts in the tire tracks between the two 1/4 mi hot wires. I start with about a 100 ft section so the area open to them to graze is about 100 x 100 or 200 ft or about 1/4-1/2 acre and see how long it takes them to have to start eating the upper stalks. When they are eating the upper stalks then I drive across the corn rows another 100-200 ft away from the center lane, put in another cross wire, go back and reel up the first and let them go to it. As TB brings up below, they can and will eat too much corn if left unrestricted access. They will also waste/trample a lot of edible material.

How is your corn standing at the end of the winter?

Do you think corn could be grazed on through summer if the field were large enough? Definitely do NOT graze corn until it is very mature. Raising good corn requires nitrogen fertilizer and there is a very likely case of nitrate poisoning. This always comes up when folks consider grazing hailed out corn etc. Making silage gives the nitrates in green corn time to change form. Grazing green high yield field corn does not and is very dangerous in my opinion. I understand about nitrate poisoning, I remember as a teacher in 1988 some guys that pastured stunted/toasted corn due to the drought here in Indiana and the cattle died due to high nitrogen content in the plants. What I was wondering, I calve in May, have been hauling my calves to butcher in early November. I wean in October. So my situation would/could be planting corn, then depending on maturity, could finish my older set of calves in standing corn from Sept 1st thru November.

Are you planting a hybrid or open pollinated corn? Hybrid selection is important to pick a palatable variety. In my system I plant a RR Triple stack Bt 95 day corn from a local seed company. I graze this corn up into April so standability is important I have no problems with standability of the hybrids I've been using. Corn on the ground under 2 ft of snow is not very useful. Since the layout of the corn relative to water, corral access ( I weigh them regularly) is important, and newer corn growing technology permits, I grow corn on corn in the same strips every year and have for 6 or 7 years now. I spring strip till in April after the steers leave for the processors. I have started running an Aerway at an angle to the stalks before strip tilling. Plant corn again 15" off the old rows in May. spray it once with glypho a couple weeks later and I'm done.


Enough for now, will ask more later if you don't mind.

I hope this helps. Jim

added: I am going to move the steers through a bit faster this year than last because I want them going to the processors off of good corn, not a couple weeks of cleanup. I am going to run the non-bred heifer calves as a cleanup crew on the corn after the steers get done with the ears/grain.

Very interesting and my next set of questions raise another set for me personally. Will pencil this out in a timline format for my calving dates and butcher dates and play with it. Don't have my new team ready to plow this spring so it will be the following spring before I plant some corn to try this. I greatly appreciate your time and answers and the dedication it takes to do this. I am greatly interested in it and see it as a viable option for my little farm. Thanks, Jon

 

[Farmerjon]

I used to pay some one to harvest the corn, then pay to haul it, then pay to dry it... then what do I do, build storage and buy shell corn back at $6-7+ per bu? Believe me it did NOT pencil out, at least at $3-4 corn at the time. At $7-8 corn you are correct - I should be out there picking up ears myself!

Since I can plant and raise the corn relatively economically, if not harvest it, grazing it at about 3 lb/day does pencil out on my current small scale and without any harvesting capability but building. Thank you for your thought-provoking questions and concern.

I have considered finding and old pull type corn picker and wire bin and picking ears and separating the feeding of corn from the grazing of the stalks but that adds a lot of labor time which I don't have.

Jim[/quote]

I have a wood crib and a New Idea 2 row pull type picker. But your scenario includes a lot more equipment, at least one gravity wagon, an elevator for filling and emptying the crib, a very good running gear with a gravity wagon to haul ear corn to town and back and a feed bin for bulk storage of ground feed which means now an auger for loading the bulk bin. I even had my own feed grinder for a few years, figure a whole Saturday shot grinding feed. It became that corn was cheaper to buy than by the time I went through all those steps. But grazing standing corn has always been in the back depths of my mind! I have a stripped down 4 row IH planter that I pull with my team, I do disc and did harvest with my tractor.

 

[inbredredneck]

I used to pay some one to harvest the corn, then pay to haul it, then pay to dry it... then what do I do, build storage and buy shell corn back at $6-7+ per bu? Believe me it did NOT pencil out, at least at $3-4 corn at the time. At $7-8 corn you are correct - I should be out there picking up ears myself!



Jim

As feed corn at $3-$4 range or $7-$8 range is all the same. My point is 180 bpa corn should get you at least 500 cd of feed. Any less than that you are leaving profit in the field. I'm just looking at this as a man who raises fed cattle for a living.

 

[abe richter]

JIM YOUR A GENIUS! THANK YOU! I FINISH STEERS ALSO AND AM SO TIRED OF BUYING CORN-MIXING ETC. JUST GENIUS
I AM 45 NORTH GREEN BAY WI-800 STEERS TO GROW TO 1400-1500 HOW MANY ACRES DO YOU FEEL WITH WASTE AND DEER CONSIDERED.
ABE

 

[SRBeef]

I used to pay some one to harvest the corn, then pay to haul it, then pay to dry it... then what do I do, build storage and buy shell corn back at $6-7+ per bu? Believe me it did NOT pencil out, at least at $3-4 corn at the time. At $7-8 corn you are correct - I should be out there picking up ears myself!



Jim

As feed corn at $3-$4 range or $7-$8 range is all the same. My point is 180 bpa corn should get you at least 500 cd of feed. Any less than that you are leaving profit in the field. I'm just looking at this as a man who raises fed cattle for a living.

I am certainly not going to disagree with your point of view. And in fact I can get around 500 cd out of an acre of 180 bu corn if I push it. the economics however can be viewed in a number of different ways. The value of 35% moisture corn in the field in Oct or Nov looks a whole lot different if you do not own a combine, carts, grain trucks, dryer bins or a feed lot or equipment to feed it.

My goal is to let the cattle harvest most of the grain in the field (maybe 90%?) and also use most of the husks, leaves and upper stalks as feed. As I posted above I am going to have the non bred heifer calves come through and get some more CD of grazing out of this corn. But I don't want them getting a lot of grain - just cleanup grain and the rest of the palatable portion of the corn plant stalks.

However I look at anything left in the field beyond that not as waste but banked as fertilizer and organic matter building my heavy clay soils and reducing fertilizer costs, water runoff, etc for next year's go round.

I was out with the steers this morning. It was below zero F and windy early and they were down eating hay and sheltering from the wind in the adjacent pasture. I took a picture showing what their current paddock looks like.

There are some ears on the ground but most of the corn has been eaten. I am going to leave this paddock as the only one open to them for a few days yet. They have already started eating the upper corn plant. It's ok if they grub for more corn on the ground while they finish more of the leafy matter.

In a few more days I will move the end wire and give them some fresh corn. After they get to the woods in the distance I will move them to another strip of corn and let the heifers in to cleanup this one.

Also there is absolutely no sign of acidosis in the group that I can see. Having hay available is important as I mentioned before. I think we have about run this topic out so here is a picture of the stalks today and I will leave it at that. Thank you for your comments.

Jim

 

[SRBeef]

JIM YOUR A GENIUS! THANK YOU! I FINISH STEERS ALSO AND AM SO TIRED OF BUYING CORN-MIXING ETC. JUST GENIUS
I AM 45 NORTH GREEN BAY WI-800 STEERS TO GROW TO 1400-1500 HOW MANY ACRES DO YOU FEEL WITH WASTE AND DEER CONSIDERED.
ABE

Abe, Thanks for the kind words. However my wife and kids could give you a real good argument on the "genius" part....

Being 45 mi north of Green Bay, you are almost in Canada like conditions and very different from my area between LaCrosse and Madison.

I think this could work for you there very well if you are careful. you must limit access and not give them the whole field at one time. As far as taking them from 800 to 1400 lb that would take 600 lb gain/ approx 3 lb/day adg = 200 days or 6-2/3 months grazing corn.

If you started in Nov you may not have enough time to get them all the way. But it would be close. If you planted a very short season (but good standing and palatable) hybrid which would be a lot lower yielding (and safer to graze) than I deal with you may be able to put them on in Oct. but the corn must be mature to avoid nitrate poisoning.

I would suggest basically you use the Canada guidelines as in the Dekalb information i posted above and will repost for you here: https://www.dekalb.ca/Western/Products/Corn/Documents/corn_grazing_guide.pdf

All the best -

Jim

edit: why take them all the way to 14-1500 lb? Coming off say 5 months of grazing corn they should be darn plump and ready to go at maybe 1300 lb, sell them and plant corn again...just an idea.

 

[inbredredneck]

I am certainly not going to disagree with your point of view. And in fact I can get around 500 cd out of an acre of 180 bu corn if I push it. the economics however can be viewed in a number of different ways. The value of 35% moisture corn in the field in Oct or Nov looks a whole lot different if you do not own a combine, carts, grain trucks, dryer bins or a feed lot or equipment to feed it.

Jim

What Hybrid and variety are you planting that still holds 35% in Oct or Nov? What county in Wis are you located?

 

[TexasBred]

Jim you don't see acidosis unless you can stay with them 24/7 and watch consumption, cud chewing, and/or measure dry matter intake. If they eat only the ears of corn until it is all gone before starting on the leaves and stalk I guarantee you have some acidosis. When you open a new paddock each cow is basically getting over 30 lbs. of pure corn that day, per your numbers.

 

[SRBeef]

Here are some more pictures from today of a small group of steers that came up into my grazing corn strip in the snow and cold (near 0 degrees F) temperatures. This is part of the same group and location as posted above.

If we think of how cattle graze corn - stage 1 is eat every ear; stage 2 is go back and eat husks and leaves; stage 3 is eat the upper stalk & stage 4 which is eat the lower stalk (only if forced to will they eat that far) - my steers have moved to stage 2 and were grazing the husk and leaves.

I think they are coming along. A couple more days on this small area and I will open up another 50-75 ft of the 100 ft wide strip. Note they still have good hay available to them and seem to still be eating a fair amount of it which I am glad to see. The non bred heifers will come through this same area later as a cleanup crew.

Here are some more pictures from today. I think they are looking good for March and April 2011 steers. Healthy.