Starting a herd

[Cattleplanner]

I want to start a herd from the use of embryo transfer. I do not own cattle at this time and need to have recipient cattle to have the embryos transferred to. I want to have top genetics from the calves that I want to be 20 in total, 10 Angus and 10 Wagyu that will be sold to other cattlemen to improve the genetics of their herd or to cross breed them to be able to establish a calf to local consumers. Time wasted in growing my own recipient cows is not on my plan. The trouble is that I need advice on how to get the recipient cattle that are close to the genetics firm that I decide on to do the embryo transfers and how to determine what the best embryos are for this. I need to be able to verify that the genetics of the Wagyu cows are from the original cows that came over from Japan and that the Angus embryos be from a Sire that is in demand from cattle ranchers. It seems to me that there must be an established routine for starting a herd that is based on embryo transfer and this is where I am asking for advice from experienced owners. If there is anything that you can give me in the way of advice, please feel free to voice your opinion.
Thanks.
[email protected]

 

[shortybreeder]

Well, technically Japan has a patent on the "original" genetics so you won't find those. If you want good recipients then your best bet is probably a herefordxholstein.

 

[AllForage]

Wonder if this is the guy with 35 acres and 2 million to start

 

[M5farm]

Must have deep pockets. I don't know anything about the embryo side . But asking farmers to decide on one specific angus sire is going to be a task in itself. You have stated you don't have cattle therefore no reputation in the industry and Most farmers/ranchers do what you are describing already buy breeding what they feel is the best marketable animal for their region.

 

[bigbull338]

you better know what your getting intp with the ET work.ive got a friend that does alot of ET work.right now he buying a bunch of recip cows to cut his costs.because leasing the recipsas getting costly.he has something like 300 or more ET calves a year.

 

[skyhightree1]

IMO not the best way to start a herd. I think when starting a venture you really need to do your homework and start off slow with a clear business plan and objectives. I know everyone is different but trying to start off too big can kick you right in the arse if you have no experience in what you are trying to do. I wanted to start my business with multiple big pieces of equip and all new stuff who wouldnt ? In reality I needed to start slow as I didn't have alot of money but the banks sure were willing to give big loans. I started out with 3 saws ropes climbing spike a half ton truck with a utility trailer. I started my herd with 5 breds and used my friends bull until I saved $. I am commercial only.

 

[cmf1]

Look up "Trans Ova".
They can give you everything you are looking for.
At a price.
I think they have facilities in Houston, Wisconsin, and more.
Keep in mind that what you consider "improved genetics for other cattlemen", may not be what other cattlemen consider improved.
You're looking at shucking some real dollars.

 

[shortybreeder]

Wonder if this is the guy with 35 acres and 2 million to start

I didn't want to be disheartening, but that's exactly what I was thinking...

 

[skyhightree1]

Wonder if this is the guy with 35 acres and 2 million to start

I didn't want to be disheartening, but that's exactly what I was thinking...

if I had 2,000,000 that I could possibly loose and would be ok.. I assure you that venture would NOT be cattle.

 

[bse]

Dont think thats the way id start, A saying that a friend of mine uses is, when a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with the experience gets the money and the man with money gets an experience.
In this endeavor you will need experience, the embryos will probably cost 750 each for what you want, you will need 40 thats 30,000 because you figure 50% conception. If you buy good recips 2,000 each another 80,000, to set them up and put them in 100 each another 4,000, thats 114,000,probably cosevative numbers. You can buy you some really nice heifers at 5,000 each, 20 for 100,000 have some really nice heifers and save 14,000

 

[shortybreeder]

Dont think thats the way id start, A saying that a friend of mine uses is, when a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with the experience gets the money and the man with money gets an experience.
In this endeavor you will need experience, the embryos will probably cost 750 each for what you want, you will need 40 thats 30,000 because you figure 50% conception. If you buy good recips 2,000 each another 80,000, to set them up and put them in 100 each another 4,000, thats 114,000,probably cosevative numbers. You can buy you some really nice heifers at 5,000 each, 20 for 100,000 have some really nice heifers and save 14,000

Not to mention you also have to feed the recip cows and their calves extra feed beyond what the heifers would eat because you have to feed the calves up to the point where those heifers are at when you buy them. Also factor in an extra 2 years before you have yearling heifers. Year 1 embryos go in, Year 2 calves come out, Year 3 calves become yearlings. Also, don't forget that when you start with 40 embryos, after 50% conception that's 20 calves, and out of those 20 calves you will only have approximately 10 heifers. :2cents:

 

[AllForage]

Wonder if this is the guy with 35 acres and 2 million to start

I didn't want to be disheartening, but that's exactly what I was thinking...

Something don't smell right with this post either. Seems like he wants to go into the hall of fame without picking up a ball first. All the promises of big science in AG rarely turn into profit. We need people that have a vision and breed for a purpose intelligently. Not just trying to follow the herd.

 

[HDRider]

Wonder if this is the guy with 35 acres and 2 million to start

I didn't want to be disheartening, but that's exactly what I was thinking...

if I had 2,000,000 that I could possibly loose and would be ok.. I assure you that venture would NOT be cattle.

HJA

What would it be? You can start another thread, and call it SHT's Dream Life..

 

[skyhightree1]

[if I had 2,000,000 that I could possibly loose and would be ok.. I assure you that venture would NOT be cattle.

HJA

What would it be? You can start another thread, and call it SHT's Dream Life..

LOL I would start my own hunting/Bow fishing show.

 

[cow pollinater]

Something don't smell right with this post either. Seems like he wants to go into the hall of fame without picking up a ball first. All the promises of big science in AG rarely turn into profit. We need people that have a vision and breed for a purpose intelligently. Not just trying to follow the herd.

:nod: I AI for the bulk of my income and yet my own cows are mostly bull bred. Somewhere in between a geneticists wet dream and cowboying there's a middle ground that we all seem to get caught up in if we do it long enough and big enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[Toad]

I learned shortly after starting a herd that cattle are not like making and selling most products. You are dealing with animals not a sheet of steel or a block of wood. A lot of variables in this business and nothing ever goes exactly as planned.

 

[Jogeephus]

I have four ET cows. I'm sorry, I lied. Two of them died while standing in kneed deep grass so I only have two of them now. All the tattoos in their ears are really impressive but that's about all that sets them apart.

 

[highgrit]

Jogeephus, but.... that can't be true just look at the numbers. The most successful cattlemen I know run bulls with their cows, and for the most part they don't use test tube bulls either.

 

[RMCDUFFEE]

Although I don't think I would personally go the ET route, if I were to do it I would look for some Holstein cows that have been culled for low milk production. These are usually sold at slaughter prices and can usually be sold after they have served their purpose at or near the same price you paid for them. That may be a more economical route for ET cows?

There are bred cows and bred heifers available that have known pedigrees and have been AId or pasture bred to quality sires. That would be my choice. They may be more expensive in the short run but they can be AI'd back to the same sire or different sire depending on the quality of the calf crop after the first year. They will also have lots of years to have calves and recoup the inital investment.

 

[Lucky_P]

RMcDuffee,
There's no doubt in my mind that many beef seedstock operations 'acquired' Johne's Disease in the early days of embryo transfer, when cull dairy cows or dairy heifers of uncertain status were widely used as embryo recipients - and subsequently were determined to be infected with M.avium subsp. paratuberculosis, the organism that causes Johne's Disease.
These cows/heifers may have been clinically normal - and may have even been serologically negative for JD antibodies at the time of procurement... but calves born to Johne's-infected cows are 10X more likely to contract the disease - whether due to in utero infection, exposure through colostrum/milk, or just greater exposure to the dam's fecal material - than are other calves born into the same herd.

Not sure I'd want a cull dairy cow as an embryo recipient, for this very reason, and if using dairy heifers, I'd want some significant information on the Johne's status of the herd of origin - and the heifer's dam, if possible. My preference would be for a good, young, commercial beef cow with a proven track record of milking well and raising a good calf - sure don't want to put a potentially valuable embryo in a 'bottom-ender'.