Start-up's

[Alice]

Hi Grippie! I'd wondered where you'd been keeping yourself...but since your barn burned, and you've been working yourself half to death, I guess that pretty well answers that.

I hate it that your barn burned...however, your onward and upward attitude definitely has a place in this "logic," a big place. If someone commits to this way of life, cutting and running in the face of adversity won't get it.

Alice

 

[Grippie]

Hey Alice. I've been pretty much just reading latley and not posting. Yeah things have been hectic. Lost a lot of really good hay and a couple of hogs. The hay burned for about a week straight. All the cows got out.
Everything got out except two pigs. They kept running back in until the fire got so bad that I couldnt go in after them any longer.
I sawed some lumber and built a "run in shed" for the cows to get out of the wind this winter. Hopfully I can get things back in shape before next winter. I have enough lumber sawn to get a good start, I just need to get the time and the cash.
I have to say- I'm real paraniod of fire now...

 

[Alice]

Time and cash...two real precious commodities, to be sure. All that hay...gone...I'm so sorry. Guess you are a little freaked out by fire right now. But, you'll get back to where you were, and beyond...no doubt in my mind.

Alice

 

[rkm]

Sorry about the barn Grippie, if you sell sell small squares to horse people you really need that barn. Hang in there. Hope you had insurance.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Infrastructure? The first couple of years at the new farm, I worked them with borrowed corral panels and they wintered in the bush. I was there two years before I even got my corral built, let alone a cattle shed.

Buy red cows they are cheaper (pay cash)

But Mr. Caustic, How am I going to get those nice black baldy calves off of red cows. I guess I need to buy one of those nice Black Hereford bulls.

Buy a good bull (pay cash

) Buy the bull you need to produce the kind of calves you want off the cows you have.

It cost the same to upkeep a POS as a good cow 400 dollars a year.

Usually about $350 for me but it depends on the year

You do not need a new John Deere an old Massey will get you by( pay cash)

A 4010 John Deere is a good bale tractor, so is an 1850 Cockshutt and you can pick them up cheap

You do not need an F-350 Diesel Truck

Who'd want a Ford anyway?

You do not need a cattle trailer
You can hire your hauling done for a fraction of the cost

. Or get a Cattle Rack ;-)

You don't need hay baleing equipment.

Or land to grow hay on for that matter. Its way cheaper to buy bales then it is to own land and equipment and find the time to get the baling done

You do not need a horse which is a bottomless pit in which to waste money, horse eats what 3 cows does with no return.
You do not need a cowboy hat.

Yup

 

[Dusty Britches]

I saw the title of this thread and thought I was going to have to defend the newbies. Imagine my surprise!

Funny, my neighbor and I had a similar conversation the other day.

He says, "Why you pay so much for them cows? I pay $300 for them, sell them and calf in spring for $600"

Without boring you with the details of the conversation his management is this:

Buy a sorry looking cow that you can sell one or 2 calves off of to recover your money. He buys from many sale barns, but he only sells at a sale barn that is over 2 hours drive from here. He is passing 1 barn about every 40 miles. His 6 month old 400 weight calves sell for avg $250. And he is proud he can sell the calf for what he paid for the cow.



Our management philosphy -
Buy decent cows, spend twice as much on a good bull. Maintain the pastures. Get the calves to gain weight as fast as possible without supplements. Our 6 month old calves avg 500-600 pounds. Keep your productive cows, sell the unproductive. Get to know the closest sale barn managment and sell calves there. The sale barn management promotes our calves b/c we do business there all the time.

We pay twice as much for our cows as my neighbor and we sell our calves for 2 to 3 times what he does. We pay the same for hay. He feeds cubes to supplement. We use liquid and winter forage at a fraction of the cost and time to feed cubes. Our sale barn is 9 miles away.

We don't have new equipment, but we have functional equipment that we maintain. Sure, we dream of someday owning a new John Deere, but that's only if we win the lottery.

During the conversation I said, "look at our calves. What do you think?" They look great says he. Even your cows look great. Pretty impressive considering the drought.

He's been doing this for all his life and says he knows more than us. What do you think?

 

[VanC]

But Mr. Caustic, How am I going to get those nice black baldy calves off of red cows.

I hope you're joking, as it's been done millions of times over the years.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

But Mr. Caustic, How am I going to get those nice black baldy calves off of red cows.

I hope you're joking, as it's been done millions of times over the years.

What sort of purebred bull would you use to consistently get black baldy calves off of a Red Angus cow?

 

[Ryder]

Everything got out except two pigs. They kept running back in until the fire got so bad that I couldnt go in after them any longer.

Are you saying that the pigs kept going back into a burning barn :?:

 

[VanC]

But Mr. Caustic, How am I going to get those nice black baldy calves off of red cows.

I hope you're joking, as it's been done millions of times over the years.

What sort of purebred bull would you use to consistently get black baldy calves off of a Red Angus cow?

We have a misunderstanding here. When CB said "red cow" I don't think he specifically meant Red Angus, or any other solid red breed for that matter. Most "red cows" in this country are Herefords. You put a homozygous black bull on a hereford cow and you usually get a black baldie. As I said, it's been done millions of times.

As for Red Angus, you're right. It would be more difficult. A Black Hereford or a black white-faced Simmie would do it, but there aren't nearly as many of those around as Hereford cows.

 

[MillIronQH]

"You do not need a horse which is a bottomless pit in which to waste money, horse eats what 3 cows does with no return."

I'm starting to love hearing that. So far this year I've made about $10,000 gathering cows for people who said " All I have to do is shake a feed sack." and catching cows that got somewhere they didn't belong and decided they liked it there. The last time before I got hurt it was eight of my neighbors cows that went thru a hole providing for them by a druck driver in the middle of the night. When he tried to get them with a feed sack they ignored him and when he tried to drive them with his pick-up they threw their tails over their backs and headed for the county seat.


"You do not need a cowboy hat."

True.... But hats are cheaper then having the skin cancer taken off your ears. And isn't conserving money what creates your margin of profit?Z

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

But Mr. Caustic, How am I going to get those nice black baldy calves off of red cows.

I hope you're joking, as it's been done millions of times over the years.

What sort of purebred bull would you use to consistently get black baldy calves off of a Red Angus cow?

We have a misunderstanding here. When CB said "red cow" I don't think he specifically meant Red Angus, or any other solid red breed for that matter. Most "red cows" in this country are Herefords. You put a homozygous black bull on a hereford cow and you usually get a black baldie. As I said, it's been done millions of times.

As for Red Angus, you're right. It would be more difficult. A Black Hereford or a black white-faced Simmie would do it, but there aren't nearly as many of those around as Hereford cows.

Hereford cows are bad for getting foot rot and pinkeye in the area where I live. I don't know if that's genetics or environment, but most people around here don't keep Herefords for that reason. I have Black cows because black calves and black baldies get a premium (or should I say, calves that aren't black get discounted). I should be able to make up for the extra that I pay for those black cows from the premium that I get off of the calves over the years that I have them. they don't need to be Angus. They just have to look like Angus. But everybody has to do what they think will maximize their profits in the area in which they live. JMHO.

 

[Caustic Burno]

"You do not need a horse which is a bottomless pit in which to waste money, horse eats what 3 cows does with no return."

I'm starting to love hearing that. So far this year I've made about $10,000 gathering cows for people who said " All I have to do is shake a feed sack." and catching cows that got somewhere they didn't belong and decided they liked it there. The last time before I got hurt it was eight of my neighbors cows that went thru a hole providing for them by a druck driver in the middle of the night. When he tried to get them with a feed sack they ignored him and when he tried to drive them with his pick-up they threw their tails over their backs and headed for the county seat.


"You do not need a cowboy hat."

True.... But hats are cheaper then having the skin cancer taken off your ears. And isn't conserving money what creates your margin of profit?Z

You take two Catahula Cur's and the cows would be running for home and be penned before you found the cows in East Texas with a horse. When you got through with that little chore you take the same curs go coon hunting or hog.
Anyone that has to hire someone that doesn't own a cow to come get there cows doesn't need to be in the cow business.
Anyone that can't pen there own cows no matter how rank doesn't need to be in the cow business.

 

[3MR]

Anybody who does things different than me doenst need to be in the cow business. :lol:

Seriously though, I like using my horse, and its still easier to coax a few reluctant head out of the trees in the saddle rather than on an ATV and I think it makes for a more relaxed animal.

JMO.......... You know what they say..... Location, Location, Location........

 

[Caustic Burno]

This question seem's to pop up over and over and everyone thinks they are going to get rich.
First buy your land and build your infrastructure before you think about the first cow. (Pay cash) Did that. Barn burnt. Cows didn't. Infastructure now sucks. Sawed lumber and am going to start building in the spring.
Buy red cows they are cheaper (pay cash) I have red cows... Whew!
Buy a good bull (pay cash) I have a decent bull (born on the place)
It cost the same to upkeep a POS as a good cow 400 dollars a year. True, although initial investment is higher.
You do not need a new John Deere an old Massey will get you by( pay cash) I have a newer JD because I need to make hay when the sun shines. I don't want break downs. Selling the extra hay to horse people easily makes the payments and helps pay taxes.
You do not need an F-350 Diesel Truck . I have an F-250 (gas) I burn 50+ face cord/ year, sell another 30 and haul hay. This is more easily done with a 3/4 ton than a half ton.
You do not need a cattle trailer . Whew. I dont have one!
You can hire your hauling done for a fraction of the cost. True.
You don't need hay baleing equipment. Why? I need hay and have the land. Plus selling hay to horse guys is failry profitable.
You do not need a horse which is a bottomless pit in which to waste money, horse eats what 3 cows does with no return. Whew.I dont have one! Never will.
You do not need a cowboy hat. Whew. I dont have one! Is a John Deere hat acceptable?

Even though some of "CB logic" is true. This basic info is not gospel and the same thing does not work for everyone. If I'm going over 200 acres of hay groud, I want a tractor that'll get the job done while the hay is still young and tender. I've stated the differences in my operation and I'm getting along just fine. Never thought I was going to get rich and I don't know anyone that gets into farming thinking that they will. Most people that farm- like it.
My kids will eat squirrel when it's on the table but we dont have to and I'm sure they wouldn't say that there is "nothin' finer". I'm sure they'd rather have pizza. I like squirrel but I'd have to agree with them.

How many acres do you have in hay field? Lets pretend 40.
Here that will run 30 mamma cows lets assume and we all know what that does you get 30 calfs. The 30 calfs average 600 dollars a piece at the sale barn for a net of 18,000 dollars, you have 100 head of cattle and need 300 rolls of hay for the winter at 30 dollars a roll at a cost of 9000 dollars or even 400 rolls at 12,000 dollars. You still netted, 9000 to 6000 dollars and didn't have the first piece of equipment to maintain. Now we all know that this doesn't count the cost to maintain the cow.
You are not getting free hay when you bale it as it has a high cost, loss of pasture, fertilizer, equipment and fuel.
I bale my own hay and figure it cost 20 dollars a roll.
Now after subtracting the upkeep on the 30 cows at 12,000 dollars I still need 400 rolls costing 12,000 dollars that leaves me 6000 dollars in the hole after the sale of my 30 calfs.
Baleing my own hay cost 8000 dollars .

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Regarding the original post which started this thread, excellent advice. Would be great to go hand in hand with a post Bez made a long time ago regarding getting started.

Should be mandatory reading for anyone starting out.

That's my 2 cents.

Katherine

 

[3MR]

This question seem's to pop up over and over and everyone thinks they are going to get rich.
First buy your land and build your infrastructure before you think about the first cow. (Pay cash) Did that. Barn burnt. Cows didn't. Infastructure now sucks. Sawed lumber and am going to start building in the spring.
Buy red cows they are cheaper (pay cash) I have red cows... Whew!
Buy a good bull (pay cash) I have a decent bull (born on the place)
It cost the same to upkeep a POS as a good cow 400 dollars a year. True, although initial investment is higher.
You do not need a new John Deere an old Massey will get you by( pay cash) I have a newer JD because I need to make hay when the sun shines. I don't want break downs. Selling the extra hay to horse people easily makes the payments and helps pay taxes.
You do not need an F-350 Diesel Truck . I have an F-250 (gas) I burn 50+ face cord/ year, sell another 30 and haul hay. This is more easily done with a 3/4 ton than a half ton.
You do not need a cattle trailer . Whew. I dont have one!
You can hire your hauling done for a fraction of the cost. True.
You don't need hay baleing equipment. Why? I need hay and have the land. Plus selling hay to horse guys is failry profitable.
You do not need a horse which is a bottomless pit in which to waste money, horse eats what 3 cows does with no return. Whew.I dont have one! Never will.
You do not need a cowboy hat. Whew. I dont have one! Is a John Deere hat acceptable?

Even though some of "CB logic" is true. This basic info is not gospel and the same thing does not work for everyone. If I'm going over 200 acres of hay groud, I want a tractor that'll get the job done while the hay is still young and tender. I've stated the differences in my operation and I'm getting along just fine. Never thought I was going to get rich and I don't know anyone that gets into farming thinking that they will. Most people that farm- like it.
My kids will eat squirrel when it's on the table but we dont have to and I'm sure they wouldn't say that there is "nothin' finer". I'm sure they'd rather have pizza. I like squirrel but I'd have to agree with them.

How many acres do you have in hay field? Lets pretend 40.
Here that will run 30 mamma cows lets assume and we all know what that does you get 30 calfs. The 30 calfs average 600 dollars a piece at the sale barn for a net of 18,000 dollars, you have 100 head of cattle and need 300 rolls of hay for the winter at 30 dollars a roll at a cost of 9000 dollars or even 400 rolls at 12,000 dollars. You still netted, 9000 to 6000 dollars and didn't have the first piece of equipment to maintain. Now we all know that this doesn't count the cost to maintain the cow.
You are not getting free hay when you bale it as it has a high cost, loss of pasture, fertilizer, equipment and fuel.
I bale my own hay and figure it cost 20 dollars a roll.
Now after subtracting the upkeep on the 30 cows at 12,000 dollars I still need 400 rolls costing 12,000 dollars that leaves me 6000 dollars in the hole after the sale of my 30 calfs.
Baleing my own hay cost 8000 dollars .

Im missing something here. Im terrible at numbers, but seems like with your figures you would be 3-6k in the hole in buying hay when you subtracted the upkeep you subtracted for the harvest figures and didnt take into account any money made during selling hay. I read it several times, but am obviously missing something. It has nothing to do with if I agree, I just dont understand yoru math as presented..

 

[Caustic Burno]

This question seem's to pop up over and over and everyone thinks they are going to get rich.
First buy your land and build your infrastructure before you think about the first cow. (Pay cash) Did that. Barn burnt. Cows didn't. Infastructure now sucks. Sawed lumber and am going to start building in the spring.
Buy red cows they are cheaper (pay cash) I have red cows... Whew!
Buy a good bull (pay cash) I have a decent bull (born on the place)
It cost the same to upkeep a POS as a good cow 400 dollars a year. True, although initial investment is higher.
You do not need a new John Deere an old Massey will get you by( pay cash) I have a newer JD because I need to make hay when the sun shines. I don't want break downs. Selling the extra hay to horse people easily makes the payments and helps pay taxes.
You do not need an F-350 Diesel Truck . I have an F-250 (gas) I burn 50+ face cord/ year, sell another 30 and haul hay. This is more easily done with a 3/4 ton than a half ton.
You do not need a cattle trailer . Whew. I dont have one!
You can hire your hauling done for a fraction of the cost. True.
You don't need hay baleing equipment. Why? I need hay and have the land. Plus selling hay to horse guys is failry profitable.
You do not need a horse which is a bottomless pit in which to waste money, horse eats what 3 cows does with no return. Whew.I dont have one! Never will.
You do not need a cowboy hat. Whew. I dont have one! Is a John Deere hat acceptable?

Even though some of "CB logic" is true. This basic info is not gospel and the same thing does not work for everyone. If I'm going over 200 acres of hay groud, I want a tractor that'll get the job done while the hay is still young and tender. I've stated the differences in my operation and I'm getting along just fine. Never thought I was going to get rich and I don't know anyone that gets into farming thinking that they will. Most people that farm- like it.
My kids will eat squirrel when it's on the table but we dont have to and I'm sure they wouldn't say that there is "nothin' finer". I'm sure they'd rather have pizza. I like squirrel but I'd have to agree with them.

How many acres do you have in hay field? Lets pretend 40.
Here that will run 30 mamma cows lets assume and we all know what that does you get 30 calfs. The 30 calfs average 600 dollars a piece at the sale barn for a net of 18,000 dollars, you have 100 head of cattle and need 300 rolls of hay for the winter at 30 dollars a roll at a cost of 9000 dollars or even 400 rolls at 12,000 dollars. You still netted, 9000 to 6000 dollars and didn't have the first piece of equipment to maintain. Now we all know that this doesn't count the cost to maintain the cow.
You are not getting free hay when you bale it as it has a high cost, loss of pasture, fertilizer, equipment and fuel.
I bale my own hay and figure it cost 20 dollars a roll.
Now after subtracting the upkeep on the 30 cows at 12,000 dollars I still need 400 rolls costing 12,000 dollars that leaves me 6000 dollars in the hole after the sale of my 30 calfs.
Baleing my own hay cost 8000 dollars .

Im missing something here. Im terrible at numbers, but seems like with your figures you would be 3-6k in the hole in buying hay when you subtracted the upkeep you subtracted for the harvest figures and didnt take into account any money made during selling hay. I read it several times, but am obviously missing something. It has nothing to do with if I agree, I just dont understand yoru math as presented..

As usual I most likely did a poor job of stating it let me try again
I figure it cost me 8000 dollars to produce my own hay.
I still see it cheaper if you can buy hay than produce it as you can run more cattle you do not have the upkeep of the equipment.
Was the hay you sold really worth it if it cost you 20 dollars a roll to produce and you sold it at 30, you would have to sell a lot of rolls at 10 bucks a roll to be worth it.
I here a lot of people state I made 5000 dollars worth of hay sales they didn't count the 4000 dollars worth of cost.
If the average cow makes me 150 dollars profit I would have to produce 15 rolls of hay to make the same profit for every cow with a lot more work.

 

[bigbull338]

ok the question got to hiring hay baled or buying equipment.the bad thing to using a custom baler is he bales your hasy when he gets to it.most guys charge $20 a bale to bale hay.so lets say you bale 50acs a yr.an say that makes 300 rolls a yr.well by my figures thats $6000 a yr baling cost.im not getting into the number of tractors it takes to vale hay.just the cost of the hay equipment.you can buy a 3 or 4yr old round baler for $15000 or less.a fairly new cutter for $3000.an a new rake for $2500.so your looking at 21500 for equipment.the intrest would be $2600 1st yr.so you could pay $6000 a yr in payments an be out of debt in less than 5yrs.an yes you have repairs .but if you look at it you have equipment that will last 15yrs.unless something just ups an dies for good.

 

[dun]

If the custom baler is contact a couple of weeks before you expect the hay to be baled they usually can get you in pretty much in the timeframe that the hay is ready to be cut. Contacting him on monday and wanting him their within a couple of days is generaly pretty hopeless.
One of hte worst costs to baling hay isn;t even the equipment, it's the 3 trips (minimum) across a pice of ground burning expensive diesel.

dun