Spend money on fertilizer or weed killer first?

[3MileRanch]

Well I suppose if you trully have a closed operation then it wouldnt, but I think the idea of a completely closed operation is a myth. If you drive your truck to town and back into your pasture you dont have a closed operation, not to mention other critters that dont understand property lines and fences.

Its no different than the argument agaisnt vacinating kids. If a few dont do it its no big deal, but if everybody stopped it would be. At least in my opinion.

 

[Richardin52]

In a drought, fertilize will do more harm than good. Those of you in Ky remember the drought here in 2007-08. '07 was the first year we chose not to fertilize, those that did, their pastures just burnt up. I haven't used any since.
If you have a major weed problem its because you have a grass growing problem or too much bare ground. all that usually translates into an overgrazing problem. Keeping the grass picked short causes the root systems to be shallow and not very vigorous. which creates an environment for weeds to explode. Fertilize, herbicides are just band-aids covering a deeper problem and is very costly as everyone knows and is a never ending cycle.

I agree, there are many reasons why weeds may become a problem. Fix the reasons and fix the problem.
Could be overgrazing, soil imbalance, stock density may be too light. Continues pastures are famous for weed problems. Weeds have been for 50,000 years or more and they have not taken the world over yet. If they have taken your pastures over there is a reason they are there.

I took over some fields a few years back that was just loaded with queens annes lace to the point the fields were white. I put down chicken manure at a rate of 3000 lbs to the acre and the next year I could only find three plants all summer. Thats a clasic case of soil imbalance where soil conditions were right for a weed to grow.

 

[Phil in Tupelo]

Sometimes I have seen the weed load heavier than thought. Spraying a year or two will really help most pastures. The question I saw was if you could only do one, fertlize or spray, I would spray.

As to vaccines, the basics are best. We have Blackleg here, vaccines are very cheap. Our experience has been when you lose a calf to BL, it is the biggest and prettiest in the pasture. Maybe now $600 to $800 value. That pays for a lot of .20 to .25 vaccines.

Closed herd, it may not matter at home, but when those babies leave the farm, it won't take the buyer long to figure out he/she may not want your cattle again.

And then again, none of the above may be true. Some people are just plain lucky.

 

[Banjo]

Sometimes I have seen the weed load heavier than thought. Spraying a year or two will really help most pastures. The question I saw was if you could only do one, fertlize or spray, I would spray.

As to vaccines, the basics are best. We have Blackleg here, vaccines are very cheap. Our experience has been when you lose a calf to BL, it is the biggest and prettiest in the pasture. Maybe now $600 to $800 value. That pays for a lot of .20 to .25 vaccines.

Closed herd, it may not matter at home, but when those babies leave the farm, it won't take the buyer long to figure out he/she may not want your cattle again.

And then again, none of the above may be true. Some people are just plain lucky.

You are right, blackleg vaccine is cheap and if you've already got em up you may as well give it. But all this other stuff from the day they hit the ground......well...its just hard to vaccinate against life. Cattle do have immune systems.
Also, if I were a cattle buyer I would figure that most farmers that come in saying their calves have " had all their shots" were lying and what does all mean?
If I were a cattle buyer I would give my new calves the vaccines and shots I wanted them to have regardless of what I was told. I would be more interested in buying healthy looking calves, then you've got something to work with IMO.

 

[greybeard]

In a drought, fertilize will do more harm than good. Those of you in Ky remember the drought here in 2007-08. '07 was the first year we chose not to fertilize, those that did, their pastures just burnt up. I haven't used any since.
If you have a major weed problem its because you have a grass growing problem or too much bare ground. all that usually translates into an overgrazing problem. Keeping the grass picked short causes the root systems to be shallow and not very vigorous. which creates an environment for weeds to explode. Fertilize, herbicides are just band-aids covering a deeper problem and is very costly as everyone knows and is a never ending cycle.

Weeds are a never ending cycle no matter what, and drought just brings out the potential that was always there. I had occassion to drive from my home north for 350 miles in June and Oct 2011, and where good lush green pastures had always stood, there was solid goatweed--and I mean solid. Seeds are very long lived and just wait for the right conditions. Grass requires more moisture both in the root system and leaf than weeds, so the weeds will grow when the grass will not. This past year (2012) I made the same trip, and it was a completely different scene, all nice green pastures again, and I know not everyone sprayed or even fertilized.
If I fertilize (did this spring already) I fertilize first then spray a few weeks later. Why? Of course I want the forage to grow, but I also want the weeds to be in a very active growing cycle when I hit them with broadleaf herbicide. That cycle is when the herbicide works best. Since I don't use any soil active herbicide, I want the ever present weed seeds to germinate, grow, then die when I spray them--not lay in the soil dormant waiting for the next dry year.

 

[hawkeye78]

The best way to get ride of weeds is to rotationally graze and manage the grass. The grass has roots as deep in the ground as tall as it is out of the ground so if you take your pastures to 4 in on top you will only have 4 in of roots under the ground. When it is dry those roots likely aren't in any moisture to regrow the grass and the earth wants to cover up the ground so it grows a weed to act as a band aid. The theory behind rotational grazing is to stimulate the grass to grow thicker to keep the ground covered to choke the weeds out. When starting a rotational grazing program you will have a rise of weeds but if you manage it correctly the weeds will go away and you will have all grass. You may have to spray some areas to help the grass. If you are moving cows regularly the weeds will get knocked down and the regrowth will be entising to cows. Another way to help get ride of weed patches is to put salt and mineral feeders in these areas and let the cows trample the weeds in the ground to get salt and mineral, but the key is to move them to a different spot every time you come back to that pasture. this also works for brush patches too. You also don't want to have the salt and mineral by the water supply because the grass in that area will suffer. Make the cows go looking for it they will eat the pasture more evenly and the whole pasture will look better. Remember this takes time, management, and some moisture.

 

[dun]

The grass has roots as deep in the ground as tall as it is out of the ground

Maybe in your neck of the woods, the grass here can;t seem to penetrate the layer of limestone a couple of inches below the surface.

 

[Banjo]

The grass has roots as deep in the ground as tall as it is out of the ground

Maybe in your neck of the woods, the grass here can;t seem to penetrate the layer of limestone a couple of inches below the surface.

Wow, that's pretty shallow. Might be a good place to start a rock quarry.

 

[Banjo]

In a drought, fertilize will do more harm than good. Those of you in Ky remember the drought here in 2007-08. '07 was the first year we chose not to fertilize, those that did, their pastures just burnt up. I haven't used any since.
If you have a major weed problem its because you have a grass growing problem or too much bare ground. all that usually translates into an overgrazing problem. Keeping the grass picked short causes the root systems to be shallow and not very vigorous. which creates an environment for weeds to explode. Fertilize, herbicides are just band-aids covering a deeper problem and is very costly as everyone knows and is a never ending cycle.

Weeds are a never ending cycle no matter what, and drought just brings out the potential that was always there. I had occassion to drive from my home north for 350 miles in June and Oct 2011, and where good lush green pastures had always stood, there was solid goatweed--and I mean solid. Seeds are very long lived and just wait for the right conditions. Grass requires more moisture both in the root system and leaf than weeds, so the weeds will grow when the grass will not. This past year (2012) I made the same trip, and it was a completely different scene, all nice green pastures again, and I know not everyone sprayed or even fertilized.
If I fertilize (did this spring already) I fertilize first then spray a few weeks later. Why? Of course I want the forage to grow, but I also want the weeds to be in a very active growing cycle when I hit them with broadleaf herbicide. That cycle is when the herbicide works best. Since I don't use any soil active herbicide, I want the ever present weed seeds to germinate, grow, then die when I spray them--not lay in the soil dormant waiting for the next dry year.

One thing that will let the grass get ahead of the weeds IMO and experience is to not start grazing too early in the spring. Letting it grow to the boot stage will let the grass establish itself and its root system. What weeds do come will have a lot of competition from the grass and only be a small % in the pasture. Of course we've been really blessed here with rainfall all winter and spring and I understand everything is a lot more challenging without moisture.