Some Murray Greys

[Backbone Ranch]

It has been a while since I have posted here, but all is well. I am wrapping up my 3rd year of veterinary school at Texas A&M, and am starting my clinical rotations a week from today. Back home, we had been quite dry throughout the winter and into the early parts of spring, but with a few showers in late March and early April, combined with 8 inches of rain last week, the grass is really starting to come on. Our oldest calves, that were AI sired, are now 10 weeks old, and the oldest of the natural service sired calves are pushing 7-8 weeks old now. We had our first set of twins (heifers) back in February, and they are honestly doing much better than I thought they would. The cow never kicked one off, but she did seem to have an issue counting to 2 early on. The stronger one would get up, find mama, and nurse while the smaller one would wake up, bawl, and wander the herd looking for her. We ended up keeping them in the lot for a week, and the twins became inseparable. When one nursed, the other was always by its side, so that was no longer an issue. I was able to get some photos this past weekend.

Both of these bulls are 10 week old sons of Victory Power Play. The darker is 7/8 Murray Grey x 1/8 Angus, while the silver is purebred Murray Grey.


These next calves are from our current herdsire, BB Backbone's General. They range in age here from 5 to 7 weeks. Not including the cows that got bred by AI last year, General was the sire of 100% of our natural service calves. 24 of the 28 calves that he sired were born in the first 21 days of the calving season. With the consistency that he is producing, we are very tempted to do the same thing this year as well.


This last photo is of a March 2020 bull that is sired by BB Backbone's General and out of OK Sally. Sally is a full sister to the bull that got us on the map within the Murray Grey breed, BB Uncle Tony. She is still producing for us at the age of 11, and her dam raised her last calf for us at the age of 17. This bull is the oldest of our General x Tony bulls, but the current yearlings that we are developing are as good, if not better, than this bull at the same age. He will be the first, of hopefully many, bulls from these genetics that we will be selling. I am excited to see what this genetic combination does for us in the future.

 

[TCRanch]

They're beautiful! And congrats on your 3rd year!

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Wow! I had not seen pictures of that 203 bull. I like him quite a bit even with the extra naval. We had a bit of naval on our Powerplay x commercial MG herd so have only used him on a couple registered PBs.

And I'm a big fan of General. We sold a yearling dark grey bull (Jet) out of him (after he covered a couple heifers) to a local starter herd and have a pretty dynamite silver heifer (Keshi) out of a first calf heifer. They grow good here in Oregon too!

I don't see any reason not to use him on a good number of females. He's a 2015 model- use him while you can!

 

[Silver]

Very impressive, those calves really look to be growing very well. What would you expect for weaning weights on those bulls at 205 days?

 

[Wall Murray Greys]

They look awesome! Can't wait to watch them grow. Really impressed with your operation.

 

[kenny thomas]

Does your clinical take you all over the US. We have a vet school here in the county and I know that they travel everywhere to do clinicals

 

[Aero]

Looking good, Hays. How you get then to stand so pretty is baffling to me. Mine don't seem to care how the picture comes out...

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Looking good, Hays. How you get then to stand so pretty is baffling to me. Mine don't seem to care how the picture comes out...

Mine are usually covered in mud this time of year too...

Here is Keshi who is also sired [AI] by BB Backbone's General. I don't recall what the WW on our General bull was but this January heifer is just under 400 lbs now out of a first calf heifer.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Wow! I had not seen pictures of that 203 bull. I like him quite a bit even with the extra naval. We had a bit of naval on our Powerplay x commercial MG herd so have only used him on a couple registered PBs.

And I'm a big fan of General. We sold a yearling dark grey bull (Jet) out of him (after he covered a couple heifers) to a local starter herd and have a pretty dynamite silver heifer (Keshi) out of a first calf heifer. They grow good here in Oregon too!

I don't see any reason not to use him on a good number of females. He's a 2015 model- use him while you can!

We really like our Power Play bull calves, and we have several more cows picked out to breed to him during this upcoming AI season. I have not seen enough of his progeny to notice the larger navels. I will keep an eye on it, as we do not want to start breeding bulls with loose sheaths. I do like your Keshi female.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Wow! I had not seen pictures of that 203 bull. I like him quite a bit even with the extra naval. We had a bit of naval on our Powerplay x commercial MG herd so have only used him on a couple registered PBs.

And I'm a big fan of General. We sold a yearling dark grey bull (Jet) out of him (after he covered a couple heifers) to a local starter herd and have a pretty dynamite silver heifer (Keshi) out of a first calf heifer. They grow good here in Oregon too!

I don't see any reason not to use him on a good number of females. He's a 2015 model- use him while you can!

We really like our Power Play bull calves, and we have several more cows picked out to breed to him during this upcoming AI season. I have not seen enough of his progeny to notice the larger navels. I will keep an eye on it, as we do not want to start breeding bulls with loose sheaths. I do like your Keshi female.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Very impressive, those calves really look to be growing very well. What would you expect for weaning weights on those bulls at 205 days?

Thank you! I am excited about this calf crop. Our heaviest bulls tend to wean around 580-620 lbs at 7-8 months. We have recently been breeding to some bulls that are a little larger in frame, so that may increase a little in the coming years.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Kenny Thomas- Most of my rotations are based in College Station, but I will have to travel for a few of them. I think the furthest that I have to travel is to Amarillo for two weeks.

Aero- It takes a long time to get good photos. There are days when the lighting is not quite right, or the calves won't stand still. I cannot tell you how many thousands of bad photos I have taken over the years.

 

[kentuckyguy]

Just curious where do you purchase your Murray Grey semen?

 

[TCRanch]

Our heaviest bulls tend to wean around 580-620 lbs at 7-8 months.

Really? They look pretty darn stout. I would have guessed they'd wean a lot more than that.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Just curious where do you purchase your Murray Grey semen?

We have purchased the semen from other breeders. I believe Universal semen sales carries a couple of Murray Grey bulls, but to get the most variety, or find a bull that you really like, I would recommend contacting the producer directly.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Really? They look pretty darn stout. I would have guessed they'd wean a lot more than that.

I will admit that that is something that we are trying to work on. Our herd has terrific carcass traits and the phenotype that we desire, but I feel that more performance and growth pre-weaning would go a long way in making our Murray Greys more marketable to the commercial producer. We are using a lot of older genetics from the 1970s and 80s in our AI program, which seems to have helped us establish more genetic diversity and we have gotten some phenomenal calves in the process. The BB Backbone's General bull that sired most of these calves is out of a bull that was born in 1989. With our females out of General, Tony, and these older AI sires as our base, we intend to breed to some newer genetics out of Australia. Two of the bulls are pictured below. They are a frame 5 1/2 to 6, and if I recall correctly, they are both in the top 5% of the breed for growth traits. There is another bull at a collection facility now in Australia that I am very excited about too.

 

[Aero]

I will admit that that is something that we are trying to work on. Our herd has terrific carcass traits and the phenotype that we desire, but I feel that more performance and growth pre-weaning would go a long way in making our Murray Greys more marketable to the commercial producer. We are using a lot of older genetics from the 1970s and 80s in our AI program, which seems to have helped us establish more genetic diversity and we have gotten some phenomenal calves in the process.

[Edit - When I go back and read this, it sounds somewhat hostile and accusatory but that is not the intention. I am 100% happy to be in the wrong and learn something!]

I can see this pencilling out at some point but not the direction I am heading. It just seems like a hard path with little added value expected while giving away the rare genetics you already have.

Selling bulls to commercial producers sounds like a large market but I don't know many producers selling weaned calves at the sale barn who would choose a Murray Grey over an Angus, or Simmental even if they are keeping all the heifers. I am sure that I will have to compromise too much of what I think is important to make a bull that still can't compete with average mainstream performance genetics. There is no point in trying to be more Angus than an Angus - they're decades ahead of you on converting a moderate, maternal, grass finishing female into a growth rocket ship and hundreds of bulls can be used for really cheap.

Great grass finishing genetics is much more rare and critical to a higher value product. With this sector exploding, very few have real grass-finishing seedstock available and almost everybody is just fattening whatever they have - whether it actually was made for it or not. I'll be linebreeding Beaver Creek genetics because I have seen the ribeyes on grass and know there is added value in animals that can do that on grass. Clearly, problems will come up but I can't let go of the work that's already been done.

If I need to sell to a larger market, commercial guys can put my Aubrac-Murray Grey F1 females with any old black bull on them and make better profit with a moderate, maternal mama cow. As for males, 24 month old steers are bringing as much as a lot of seedstock from the folks I talk to.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

[Edit - When I go back and read this, it sounds somewhat hostile and accusatory but that is not the intention. I am 100% happy to be in the wrong and learn something!]

I can see this pencilling out at some point but not the direction I am heading. It just seems like a hard path with little added value expected while giving away the rare genetics you already have.

Selling bulls to commercial producers sounds like a large market but I don't know many producers selling weaned calves at the sale barn who would choose a Murray Grey over an Angus, or Simmental even if they are keeping all the heifers. I am sure that I will have to compromise too much of what I think is important to make a bull that still can't compete with average mainstream performance genetics. There is no point in trying to be more Angus than an Angus - they're decades ahead of you on converting a moderate, maternal, grass finishing female into a growth rocket ship and hundreds of bulls can be used for really cheap.

Great grass finishing genetics is much more rare and critical to a higher value product. With this sector exploding, very few have real grass-finishing seedstock available and almost everybody is just fattening whatever they have - whether it actually was made for it or not. I'll be linebreeding Beaver Creek genetics because I have seen the ribeyes on grass and know there is added value in animals that can do that on grass. Clearly, problems will come up but I can't let go of the work that's already been done.

If I need to sell to a larger market, commercial guys can put my Aubrac-Murray Grey F1 females with any old black bull on them and make better profit with a moderate, maternal mama cow. As for males, 24 month old steers are bringing as much as a lot of seedstock from the folks I talk to.

I appreciate the feedback! By no means do I take offense to anything that you have said. We were extremely fortunate to acquire the majority of the Beaver Creek herd. They have been a terrific foundation for us, and in my opinion, were some of the best Murray Greys in the US. They have terrific carcass attributes, and have done really well in our environment.

To achieve the goals that we have laid for ourselves, we do not intend to breed to the "bull of the month". There are a lot of bulls that we are purposefully not using, and with the Australian bulls that we are considering, where the data is available, I am finding as much information as I can about the sire, dam, progeny performance in carcass competitions, as well as photos/ performance of the progeny. For instance, Wallawong Under the Radar, the first bull I pictured, is in the top 5% of the breed for 200, 400, and 600 day weights, as well as the top 5% for ribeye area. He is still a frame 6 or so, so by no means massive. The three sons of Under the Radar that we saw in Ohio, years ago, were some of the most correct, uniform, physically mature yearlings that I have seen in the breed.

We bred very closely to BB Uncle Tony for a number of years, as he was the only walking sire that we had. During those years, the frame score dipped below what we thought to be desirable, and we found that the fertility of the young cows that were double or triple bred to 1 or more animals in their pedigree dropped. We were culling open 3 and 4 year old cows. The cows that we initially purchased from Beaver Creek were aging, and with culling many of the young stock coming on, it was not going to be sustainable for us in the long term. We have been really pleased, so far, with the calves that we are getting from the older AI sires, and we are going to continue to use them in our program.

 

[Travlr]

[Edit - When I go back and read this, it sounds somewhat hostile and accusatory but that is not the intention. I am 100% happy to be in the wrong and learn something!]

I can see this pencilling out at some point but not the direction I am heading. It just seems like a hard path with little added value expected while giving away the rare genetics you already have.

Selling bulls to commercial producers sounds like a large market but I don't know many producers selling weaned calves at the sale barn who would choose a Murray Grey over an Angus, or Simmental even if they are keeping all the heifers. I am sure that I will have to compromise too much of what I think is important to make a bull that still can't compete with average mainstream performance genetics. There is no point in trying to be more Angus than an Angus - they're decades ahead of you on converting a moderate, maternal, grass finishing female into a growth rocket ship and hundreds of bulls can be used for really cheap.

Great grass finishing genetics is much more rare and critical to a higher value product. With this sector exploding, very few have real grass-finishing seedstock available and almost everybody is just fattening whatever they have - whether it actually was made for it or not. I'll be linebreeding Beaver Creek genetics because I have seen the ribeyes on grass and know there is added value in animals that can do that on grass. Clearly, problems will come up but I can't let go of the work that's already been done.

If I need to sell to a larger market, commercial guys can put my Aubrac-Murray Grey F1 females with any old black bull on them and make better profit with a moderate, maternal mama cow. As for males, 24 month old steers are bringing as much as a lot of seedstock from the folks I talk to.

I have to say I agree with your take on grass finish being important in the future.