Simangus

[Simmental7]

If you guys were gunna have a simangus calf would you have simmental over an angus cow or Angus bull over simm cows?

 

[Simmental7]

and why you decided that way

 

[fitz]

and why you decided that way

Simply because thats what I started with. I've always had simmental cows and my last two bulls have been angus.

fitz

 

[Simmental7]

Whats your weaning weights like?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I'm kind of the mix up backwards kid, I have sim cows, ang cows, and sim cross cows. Ive been breeding them to a purebred simmy bull, and a Sim-Char-Ang Bull. Cows that I want show calves and cows that need more bone, milk, and go good with the purebred I breed to #1. The ones that need more growth and over all mass goes to bull #2. But the plan by next year is to just breed to the purebred and see how that goes.
But i'm not a expert and i'm still trying to figure out which way to breed them, but that's the fun of cross breeding.
Next i'm going to see how some Maine-Sim-Ang calves will turn out.
Good luck on finding your mix!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I'm kind of the mix up backwards kid, I have sim cows, ang cows, and sim cross cows. Ive been breeding them to a purebred simmy bull, and a Sim-Char-Ang Bull. Cows that I want show calves and cows that need more bone, milk, and go good with the purebred I breed to #1. The ones that need more growth and over all mass goes to bull #2. But the plan by next year is to just breed to the purebred and see how that goes.
But i'm not a expert and i'm still trying to figure out which way to breed them, but that's the fun of cross breeding.
Next i'm going to see how some Maine-Sim-Ang calves will turn out.
Good luck on finding your mix!

id like to see that bull

 

[JustSimmental]

Well since the traits for inheritance on the performance side (growth) and carcass merit side comes from the Sire, we normally have better calves using Simm Cows and either a Red or Black Angus Herd Sire.

Heritability estimates of beef cattle traits.

Scrotal circumference (Fertility Measurement) 40-55%
Postweaning daily gain 40-45%
Postweaning daily feed consumption 50-55%
Final feedlot weight 50-55%
Yearling weight 50-55%
% Ribeye area 60-65%
Fat thickness 40-55%
Marbling score 40-45%
Tenderness score 50-60%

PB Simm cows tend to be a bit better momma cow than PB Angus cows, especially today, when PB Angus cows have a larger mature weight than do PBSM. Mature weights of cows increase the cost be annum per cow, so a more moderate frame is preferred. The Simm cow has great MM, longevity, more moderate frames and the ability to wean a heavier calf and by using an Angus Sire we get some of their carcass merit traits which we are lacking in, like IMF. We also then can take advantage of better CE scores and birth weights, which we also need improvement in.

If you guys were gunna have a simangus calf would you have simmental over an angus cow or Angus bull over simm cows?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I'm kind of the mix up backwards kid, I have sim cows, ang cows, and sim cross cows. Ive been breeding them to a purebred simmy bull, and a Sim-Char-Ang Bull. Cows that I want show calves and cows that need more bone, milk, and go good with the purebred I breed to #1. The ones that need more growth and over all mass goes to bull #2. But the plan by next year is to just breed to the purebred and see how that goes.
But i'm not a expert and i'm still trying to figure out which way to breed them, but that's the fun of cross breeding.
Next i'm going to see how some Maine-Sim-Ang calves will turn out.
Good luck on finding your mix!

id like to see that bull

He is a pretty bull, but he's doesn't like photos... :lol2:
But I do have this one, not very good, I snapped with my phone.
He's actually 1/4 Sim 1/4 Char 1/2 Ang

 

[fitz]

Whats your weaning weights like?

I take steers off the cows between 5 and 6 months old.
Average scale weights around 100# per month of age.

fitz

 

[Simmental7]

Well since the traits for inheritance on the performance side (growth) and carcass merit side comes from the Sire, we normally have better calves using Simm Cows and either a Red or Black Angus Herd Sire.
Soo your telling me that You would put an angus bull over the simm cows for growthy calves? Generally i thought simmental had the better growth traits and have a bigger calf come weaning time when putting a simm bull over an angus cow.

 

[JustSimmental]

Simm cows have better maternal traits than most Angus cows and I believe are better "calf raisers". So we put the Red or Black Angus bull over the Simm Cow to improve the carcass merit traits and other parameters where Simm are lacking --Like CE and BW. What you will get from crossing this way is a 600+ lb weaning weight average for steers and heifers, which is good enough plus a calf that has better carcass merits for a market that is trending more toward Quality pounds than Quantity pounds.

Well since the traits for inheritance on the performance side (growth) and carcass merit side comes from the Sire, we normally have better calves using Simm Cows and either a Red or Black Angus Herd Sire.
Soo your telling me that You would put an angus bull over the simm cows for growthy calves? Generally i thought simmental had the better growth traits and have a bigger calf come weaning time when putting a simm bull over an angus cow.

 

[Massey135]

Well since the traits for inheritance on the performance side (growth) and carcass merit side comes from the Sire, we normally have better calves using Simm Cows and either a Red or Black Angus Herd Sire.

Heritability estimates of beef cattle traits.

Scrotal circumference (Fertility Measurement) 40-55%
Postweaning daily gain 40-45%
Postweaning daily feed consumption 50-55%
Final feedlot weight 50-55%
Yearling weight 50-55%
% Ribeye area 60-65%
Fat thickness 40-55%
Marbling score 40-45%
Tenderness score 50-60%

PB Simm cows tend to be a bit better momma cow than PB Angus cows, especially today, when PB Angus cows have a larger mature weight than do PBSM. Mature weights of cows increase the cost be annum per cow, so a more moderate frame is preferred. The Simm cow has great MM, longevity, more moderate frames and the ability to wean a heavier calf and by using an Angus Sire we get some of their carcass merit traits which we are lacking in, like IMF. We also then can take advantage of better CE scores and birth weights, which we also need improvement in.

If you guys were gunna have a simangus calf would you have simmental over an angus cow or Angus bull over simm cows?

You've still yet to post a source for "updated" avg mature cow weight that support your claims.

Are all simangus just crossbreds or are there actually people stabalizing the cross?

 

[JustSimmental]

This info just came out recently, but that's not the whole story because Simm cows are known for being better mamas than PBAN --I have both and the PBAN are on the lower end of production, annually.. The question was about crossing and why.

Stabilizing --- Simm Angus --- no they are not a breed, but they are calves born from registered PBSM and PBAN-- ya know F1's...

The reason Simm Angus are so popular today is that this cross (according to MARC) fits the market trends, the best, for those carcasses grading Choice. Also, as you know by using Simmental hybrids a producer is then able to take advantage of hybrid vigor. If you do nothing else to improve your cattle crossbreeding will get you further than doing nothing.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Be hard to get a 100% F1 out of a purebred simm.

 

[Massey135]

I'm sure the f1s are excellent momma cows. You couldn't give me a f1 bull. I've also seen 3/4's advertised as simangus?

 

[JustSimmental]

Not at all -- here is one here >>> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2482295
She is PBSM on the bottom and PB AN on the top in fact on the bottom of her bloodlines if you trace it back you will a FB Simmental named Sir Arnold. This is really simple.

Here is another one but she is Red and you guys dont like red ones >> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2617903

Be hard to get a 100% F1 out of a purebred simm.

 

[JustSimmental]

So you dont like F1 bulls -- like this one >> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2414537

Here is a photo for ya not to like >>

3/4's are also Simm Angus too -- here is one his sire is the one above you don't like >> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2566964

I'm sure the f1s are excellent momma cows. You couldn't give me a f1 bull. I've also seen 3/4's advertised as simangus?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Notice where you say trace back to a fullblood simm. Kinda tells me there is something else in the woodpile so to speak.

 

[Massey135]

No, you don't get it. Angus were already crossed with the FB simms to arrive at what you call a pb simm. You can't then breed that animal that already carries considerable Angus genotype and phenotype back to Angus and call it a 'true' f1. I guarantee you type a pb simm and and fb simm and and Angus and the pb simm will type much more closely to the Angus than to the fb.

If the % aren't stabalized, its a crossbred.

 

[JustSimmental]

After 10 generations of PBSM breeding even if you used an Angus Red or Black in 1972 you have an individual then that is 99.99999999999999 % SM or what we refer to as PBSM. Actually the first crosses were using Red Angus for several reasons-- one being to turn them a solid color and the other was to rid them of the Diluter gene which RA doesnt possess.

The FB SImm is a good heritage breed, but really doesnt work in todays marketplace --especially as we trend more toward quality pounds over quantity pounds.

If you bred a FB Simm to an Angus you would then have a Simm Angus at 50% FB Simm and 50% Angus-- << this is where your confusion lies. No one ever considered a breeding of a FB SM to a PB AN to get a PBSM.

If you bred a FB SM to a PB AN then you have a 50/50 and you would then have to breed to a PBSM to make it a 3/4 SM etc etc etc until you had what we call a PBSM.

Then you take this individual the PBSM and cross it with a PBAN to make the 50/50 Simm Angus F 1.

Hope this clears up your confusion about PBSM and PBAN F1

No, you don't get it. Angus were already crossed with the FB simms to arrive at what you call a pb simm. You can't then breed that animal that already carries considerable Angus genotype and phenotype back to Angus and call it a 'true' f1. I guarantee you type a pb simm and and fb simm and and Angus and the pb simm will type much more closely to the Angus than to the fb.

If the % aren't stabalized, its a crossbred.