Sim x Charolais?

[RoanDurham]

You ready to part w/ those brahma/jersey cross cows yet, Chippie? They'd make ideal recips.

 

[TexasBred]

And do not mistake dairy and holstein, many other dairy breeds; Jersey, Swedish Red (nowadays marketed as Viking Red), milking simmenthal and so on have easier calvings, simply because of a different conformation. :2cents:

Simply because Jerseys are 60lbs at birth and Holsteins are 120. I agree the energy level of the ration plays a part but the primary factor for huge birth weights in Holsteins is the single trait selection for high milk production. Many Holstein breeders have overlooked birth weight in pursuit for milk production for decades and, as a result, they have big calves. I don't care if you turn a Holstein out on a grass only ration,,,, she's not going to throw a 60lb calf.

Who gave you this BS or where did you read it??? It's not uncommon at all for holstein heifer calves to weigh 6-=70 lbs. It's very unusual for a bull calf to even weigh over 100 and most will be around 80. Maybe you ahve some "super cows" in your area but having calved out well over 10,000 of them I can only remember one that came close to 125. Northern holsteins do tend to have somewhat larger calves than those in the south but then so do the beef cattle in northern states. True the cattle do get a huge amount of high protein/high energy feed (55+ lbs. of dry matter per day) but most of this is converted to milk production and has nothing to do with birth weights. Last 60 days of gestation even holsteins or on a lower protein, lower energy, specially formulated ration just for "dry cows".

 

[RoanDurham]

The Holstein calves I've helped pull have all weighed over 110. One of them was 132! There are also video after video on youtube of dairymen cranking out HUGE Holstein calves. One on there shows em weigh the calf at 155! Look for yourself. It is not unusual for a 2000lb cow to have a 100+lb calf. In fact, it would be quite odd to see a calf come in at less than 5% of the dams weight.

Chippie said that in her experience Holsteins avg 90lbs. This is more in line with most that I've seen-- heifers weighing mid 80s and bulls weighing mid 90s- but the Holsteins that are being pulled, are HUGE calves.

 

[shortybreeder]

The Holstein calves I've helped pull have all weighed over 110. One of them was 132! There are also video after video on youtube of dairymen cranking out HUGE Holstein calves. One on there shows em weigh the calf at 155! Look for yourself. It is not unusual for a 2000lb cow to have a 100+lb calf. In fact, it would be quite odd to see a calf come in at less than 5% of the dams weight.

Chippie said that in her experience Holsteins avg 90lbs. This is more in line with most that I've seen-- heifers weighing mid 80s and bulls weighing mid 90s- but the Holsteins that are being pulled, are HUGE calves.

Most videos on youtube are examples of OUTLIERS, like you said before, just because there are OUTLIERS doesn't mean they are average. TB is right-northern cows have higher birth weights, our average is around 90-100lbs, but then again our calving-ease angus sired calves average 85. Just because you can find a lot of videos of something on youtube does NOT mean it is typical! You can find videos of a Honda beating a Ferrari in a street race. You gonna start saying that's "not unusual" too? Most holsteins don't get over 2000lbs because they become extremely inefficient and REALLY start to eat too much. The average weight of our mature holsteins is 1500-1600lbs. 5% of that is 75-80 pounds. Just because you've been involved in pulling massive calves doesn't mean that's average... Unless you are the hired help who is there 24/7 pulling every single calf and weighing them all?

 

[RoanDurham]

I agree those big calves aren't typical. But that's implicit as pulling calves isn't typical!!! The who point was, that despite Holsteins long slender shape, the outliers who do HAVE to be pulled are pulled because of their sheer size ie POUNDS-- and not bc of their shape. Their long slender shape is conducive to easy calving. Their birthweight is not.

 

[RoanDurham]

They milk 5000 cows twice a day across the street from me. 1500lbs might cover the bred heifers.

 

[shortybreeder]

Judging weight of dairy cattle is very different from judging weight of beef cattle. The long legs make them look much bigger than they really are. We have a robot that weighs every animal at every milking (3 times per day average) so our averages are much more accurate than anyone's "guesstimate"
Edit: we have had 1 cow break the 2000lb mark since we put the robot in over 5 years ago, she weighed 2200lbs when we finally sold her. She was 1/2 angus and when she was running in the dry cow lot she looked like a big black mass of Jell-O.

 

[RoanDurham]

They milk 5000 cows twice a day across the street from me. 1500lbs might cover the bred heifers.

 

[RoanDurham]

I've sat through too many Dairy auctions in Sulphur Springs on Thursdays- I'm not saying tonners are the norm but they regularly come through. Even those old broke down bag of bones will weigh 17+

 

[Taurus]

I've sat through too many Dairy auctions in Sulphur Springs on Thursdays- I'm not saying tonners are the norm but they regularly come through. Even those old broke down bag of bones will weigh 17+

if I remembered correctly that TexasBred also told you what the average weight of Holstein cow few times already. The average weight is less than 1700lbs. Its just they are taller.

 

[RoanDurham]

I've sat through too many Dairy auctions in Sulphur Springs on Thursdays- I'm not saying tonners are the norm but they regularly come through. Even those old broke down bag of bones will weigh 17+

if I remembered correctly that TexasBred also told you what the average weight of Holstein cow few times already. The average weight is less than 1700lbs. Its just they are taller.

what's your point? I'd had this discussion many times w/ my neighbor-- most his bred heifers are in the 14-1500 range. And no, it's not just that they are taller. They have HUGE bones and I've seen some grown steins that looked to be 3' across the hooks. These are cows that milk a 100lbs/day-- they're huge animals --- the ones that have calving difficulties have them because of the calf's size, as the calve's shape would suggest they'd slip right out.

 

[cowgirl8]

I've sat through too many Dairy auctions in Sulphur Springs on Thursdays- I'm not saying tonners are the norm but they regularly come through. Even those old broke down bag of bones will weigh 17+

if I remembered correctly that TexasBred also told you what the average weight of Holstein cow few times already. The average weight is less than 1700lbs. Its just they are taller.

what's your point? I'd had this discussion many times w/ my neighbor-- most his bred heifers are in the 14-1500 range. And no, it's not just that they are taller. They have HUGE bones and I've seen some grown steins that looked to be 3' across the hooks. These are cows that milk a 100lbs/day-- they're huge animals --- the ones that have calving difficulties have them because of the calf's size, as the calve's shape would suggest they'd slip right out.

I'm beginning to think that some of the posters here have never owned a cow or if they have its been very few.
We haul to SS sometimes. I hate their loadout. And the turd who stands at the back of the trailer and uses his prod way way too much..Last time i just about grabbed it from him to shove down his throat.

 

[RoanDurham]

I'm beginning to think that some of the posters here have never owned a cow or if they have its been very few.
We haul to SS sometimes. I hate their loadout. And the turd who stands at the back of the trailer and uses his prod way way too much..Last time i just about grabbed it from him to shove down his throat.

Yea, some characters here alright. I don't care much for it either having to back up to load instead of being able to pull through. Its a clusterF. Funny you said that bout the hot shot.. I've never seen a place use one on baby calves the way they do there. Even in the sale ring as if its no big deal. It's just unnecessary. I used to hit the little triangle there from ss on Monday and Thursday to emory on Tuesday and Saturday and Winnsboro on Friday regularly... Good area to live in for a sale barn junkie

 

[Indicus]

Derailing threads seem to be the norm suddenly. Anyone else noticed the peace on the board before RoanDurham came back from exile?

 

[RoanDurham]

If be peace you mean stagnancy then yes.

 

[RoanDurham]

Topics go astray as do conversations. It's pretty typical in communication to move from one topic to the next.

 

[cowgirl8]

If be peace you mean stagnancy then yes.

We do the winnsboro, SS, paris and hugo...Hate paris, only take junk there. Winnsboro has been good for cull cows, SS too....Next time you go to SS, check out the guy who's jabbering about nothing while unloading the chute on the right. He'll stand at the back of our trailer where the cows need to come out and sit there and shock the crud out of them and then complain that they wont come out of a trailer like ours. Its a horse/stock trailer with a slide gate...The sides are closed except for a gap at the tops part...I want to yell, GET THE F*(# out of the way a$$ hole........lol....SS's walmart is the most courteous walmart i've ever been to. Everyone is so nice, even the customers. Its almost bazaar.

 

[chippie]

They milk 5000 cows twice a day across the street from me. 1500lbs might cover the bred heifers.

What dairy is that?

We no longer have the Brahman Jersey crosses. Everything and everybody is getting older at our place.

 

[TexasBred]

The Holstein calves I've helped pull have all weighed over 110. One of them was 132! There are also video after video on youtube of dairymen cranking out HUGE Holstein calves. One on there shows em weigh the calf at 155! Look for yourself. It is not unusual for a 2000lb cow to have a 100+lb calf. In fact, it would be quite odd to see a calf come in at less than 5% of the dams weight.

Chippie said that in her experience Holsteins avg 90lbs. This is more in line with most that I've seen-- heifers weighing mid 80s and bulls weighing mid 90s- but the Holsteins that are being pulled, are HUGE calves.

You can always find pics and videos of the exceptions anywhere...just keep in mind that these are exceptions and not the norm. I don't think I ever saw a 2000 lb. holstein cow in Texas either. 99% of the dairies in NE Texas don't even have a scale to weigh calves....most don't even weigh their milk. They "eyeball" things and make a guess. Some of the poorest run dairies in the country.

 

[TexasBred]

I've sat through too many Dairy auctions in Sulphur Springs on Thursdays- I'm not saying tonners are the norm but they regularly come through. Even those old broke down bag of bones will weigh 17+

if I remembered correctly that TexasBred also told you what the average weight of Holstein cow few times already. The average weight is less than 1700lbs. Its just they are taller.

what's your point? I'd had this discussion many times w/ my neighbor-- most his bred heifers are in the 14-1500 range. And no, it's not just that they are taller. They have HUGE bones and I've seen some grown steins that looked to be 3' across the hooks. These are cows that milk a 100lbs/day-- they're huge animals --- the ones that have calving difficulties have them because of the calf's size, as the calve's shape would suggest they'd slip right out.

Hopkins County must have changed the way they dairy. It has always been the homeland of the "small typy" holstein (that's what the locals called them" and very few were ever weighed at the sale barn as they sold by the head and nobody cared what they weighed. The larger cows would be bought but "traders" and hauled to Stephenville where they milked larger cattle. My entire herd probably averaged less than 1400 lbs. and most months over 150 of them would milk over 100 lbs. on DHIA test. BTW when did Hopkins dairy ever get a 5000 cow dairy?? The average use to be less than 200....must be one of those Dutchmen that came in back in the 80's.