Shorthorn Bull ,Show bull or breeding bull?

[Coyote]

Just wanted to know what other cattlemen thought about the following; Does there seem to be two different types of cattle being developed, show and breeding stock?

A number of cattlemen that have seen this herdsire ,like him, but in a show ring he would place close to dead last.

This bull is grass fed, just waiting to be turned out to get to work, last year he came home after breeding, looking the same as he did going in .

 

[Frankie]

I think in the Angus breed there are big differences between show animals and performance animals. Show people seem to pay less attention to birth weights and average daily gain than to to hair and bone.

 

[mtnman]

Are there a bunch of these Shorthorns up in CA that are free of the Maine influence?

Man, I always loved those good Shorthorn, but you can't hardly find them down here.

They are either Maine, or they are more traditional, and lighter muscled, with milk.

Just can't fid as many like this dude.

Help me out Canadians.

Tell me where these good Shorthorns are that are more "modern", but not so modern they are show animals.

mtnman

 

[watson brangus]

Well for one he is a very nice loooking bull. If I raised shorthorns I'd be happy to have him. But anyways to me a good bull is a good bull and if you are proud of him I wouldn't think twice about showing him because you sure aren't going to embarassed leading him into the breed. I personaly raised a bull this year that wasn't the showiest bull just more of a powerful herd sire but he turned out to win grand at our state show so you never know.

 

[KMacGinley]

That's a good shorthorn bull. The show ring is neither here nor there. Those guys live in a fantasy world and trade money back and forth. Trophy's and ribbons are cheap, unless you show to get them.

 

[BWA]

Here is a link to the Canadian Shorthorn Association. I think Horseshoe Creek has a few herdsires that would fall into the more traditional shorthorn category.

http://www.horseshoecreekfarms.com/herd_sires.htm
http://canadianshorthorn.com/about.htm

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Here is a "BEEF " PRODUCING BULL! It would make no difference whether he is Shorthorn, Angus,Hereford.Simmental, Gelbvieh, or whatever beef breed. This guy is a beef bull. If he were shorter bodied, blockier, up-headed, and walked on tippy-toes, and had several inches of hair that could be trimmed, curled, brushed UP where he is DOWN and brushed DOWN where he is UP and combed to make his legs appear twice as big as they physiologically are, the tail switch looking as if it belonged in a wig factory, the tail head looking like one of these freaky kids nowdays with Orange Slush and Glue stuck in it, and with KIWI Shoe Polish sprayed on his hooves to cover up the cow pie he stepped in just before going into the show ring to be "Oh-ed and Ah-ed" over and some supposedly "knowledgeable" Judge pondering and scrutinizing whether this hair is going southeast or south by southwest and - - - - -well, you get the point. The "Show Cattle" have gotten to be an insult to the industry, and the important characteristics and traits have taken a back stall insofar as practicality and common sense is concerned. But that is just my opinion, and I know that it is not shared by a lot of breeders.

Of course, if the purpose of - "SHOW" - is to train kids what responsability, hard work, character, how to assume obligations, and how to think is - then I am all for it and three cheers. But if one thinks that by observing show winnings it is going to teach one how to raise BEEF CATTLE - forget it!! By teaching anyone how to cover up faults in our beef stock is doing nothing more than to teach them to lie about their animal. I am all in favor of cleaning an animal up and "ALLOWING" it to present itself honestly to it's best advantage - but that is where it should stop. To blow it's hair "this way" and "brush and comb it to 'fill' up that low spot in it's back is flat out equivocation (which means the deliberate use of ambiguity in order to deceive or mislead) and I think that will eventually make enemys and hurt any breed!

There! I got that off my chest and I feel better!

And I like this Shorthorn Bull.

DOC HARRIS

 

[mnmtranching]

Looks to me like you got a good bull, and will sire a bunch of good doing calves.

mnmt

 

[UG]

Coyote,

Nice looking bull. This guy looks like he'll sire some really stout feeders. We need more of these type of bulls in the industry.

Doc Harris,

Great summary on the show game. I have similar feelings. Some of my most favorite memories growing up were showing calves and pigs at the county fair. I never won anything, but learned a whole lot and generally made some money. Unfortunately today, most kids don't even break even on their projects, nor learn much about true livestock production.

 

[Bullbuyer]

I'd like to raise my glass and offer a toast of thanks to Doc Harris for so eloquently saying what we've all been thinking about showing cattle ! HERE HERE !

I do advocate toasting with a glass of milk - from a real working cow not some "trailer princess" that gets pampered all her life in the show ring.

 

[mtnman]

I can't ever keep this straight.

Does the 'x' and the '*' mean they are straight, or crossed?

Thanks

mtnman

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Does the 'x' and the '*' mean they are straight, or crossed?

x is polled, * indicates an appendix animal.

Rod

 

[jnowack]

There are just as many judges out there with different ideas and preferences as there are people on this board with different ideas and preferences. There are some judges that will like this bull. He is a nice bull. There are some judges that will like other bulls better.

There are also 2 major segments in showing and 2 types of judges. There are the breeds and breeders that fall into the mainstream of the beef industry and then there are club calf people. Some breeds are mostly club calf breeds. Some breeds have both club calf breeders and breeders who sell commercial bulls. Most club calf breeders breed strictly for the show ring. In a breed such as shorthorns where there are both types it is almost like having 2 separate breeds of cattle at the same show. The steer judges are not going to pick the same cattle that a breeder judge is going to pick.
There are a lot of breeders who show that have good honest cattle that are bred to work and produce on pasture. For me showing is plain and simple advertising. I sell commercial bulls and can get my cattle seen by a lot of people by taking them to shows. Win lose of draw I bred them, I raised them and they work for me and my customers.
You can learn a lot from a good judge if you just listen to what they say instead of getting to wrapped up in where the cattle place. There are great cattle that stand last in class all over the country and somebody has to lose for somebody to win.

 

[mtnman]

OK, and "appendix" means crossbred, right?

As opposed to every dog and horse organization that uses appendix as the straightbred.

LOL

mtnman

 

[mtnman]

Do you have a reg number for him?

I'd sure like to check his pedigree out.

mtnman

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

OK, and "appendix" means crossbred, right?

As opposed to every dog and horse organization that uses appendix as the straightbred.

Yep, appendix is the crossbreeds. The American Shorthorn Association allows appendix animals to move to the full registry once 255 of 256 of their ancestors are proven purebred.

Rod

 

[Coyote]

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/extended_ped ... ciation=21

Here is his extented pedigree at the CLRC web site.




"That there is one good looking shorthorn bull. I put his weight to be about 22-2300 pounds is that right? "

I would guess him to be in that ball park, have not weighed him since last fall when he came off of pasture at 2170.

 

[mtnman]

How about frame?


6.5?

mtnman

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

I would use him strictly for breeding. He is truly a beef bull, know matter what breed he is. If I were you, I would put him in with all my cows, maye even heifers if this bull of yours had a smaller BW. :cboy: :cboy:

 

[Coyote]

He is 56 inches, so I think he is around a frame 5.