Setting your goal in the beef cattle industry.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Just to clarify for any newbies reading this post.
You do NOT decide what date the cow will calve (she will make that decision). You decide what date you will put the bull in with the cow (or start AI breeding) and what date you plan to pull the bull out (if your goal is to have a planned breeding program).
So, to play the game. If you put a bull in on 12-22 each and every year, and he bred the cow that day AND she decided to have it on 283 days, then the cow would have 82 days open (365 - 283)
That is easy math - if you have one cow.
As you increase the number of cows, and you plan on a 45 day or 60 day calving season, then the cows that calved at the end of the season won't have 82 days open, they may only have 22 days when breeding season starts.
As I said before, if you don't have a breeding program (set timed) then yes, it is very easy to have two calves within a 12 month period from the same cow. I have many cows that have produced 2 calves within 12 months - within my 60 day calving season. Not a big deal.
My goal is to maintain a healthy herd that makes my farm the most NET profit per cow.
You do NOT decide what date the cow will calve (she will make that decision). You decide what date you will put the bull in with the cow (or start AI breeding) and what date you plan to pull the bull out (if your goal is to have a planned breeding program).
So, to play the game. If you put a bull in on 12-22 each and every year, and he bred the cow that day AND she decided to have it on 283 days, then the cow would have 82 days open (365 - 283)
That is easy math - if you have one cow.
As you increase the number of cows, and you plan on a 45 day or 60 day calving season, then the cows that calved at the end of the season won't have 82 days open, they may only have 22 days when breeding season starts.
As I said before, if you don't have a breeding program (set timed) then yes, it is very easy to have two calves within a 12 month period from the same cow. I have many cows that have produced 2 calves within 12 months - within my 60 day calving season. Not a big deal.
My goal is to maintain a healthy herd that makes my farm the most NET profit per cow.
Dave
Well-known member
My goal is to get filthy rich watching my cows eat grass. So far I have not attained that goal. But I am not a quitter.
I guess it would help if I won the lottery or had a rich relative die and leave me in their will.
I guess it would help if I won the lottery or had a rich relative die and leave me in their will.
B&M Farms
Well-known member
I used to run a bull all year. I would say that about 40% of cows did not gain a calf every 5 years. Some gained a little but not every 5 years. About 50% gained a calf every 5 years or close to it. About 10% went longer than a year and those got culled. This last year was the first year I calved in the fall. The bull was in for 90 days and 24 head calved within 67 days. No one was culled for not breeding on time. This was the same cows. Some cows are going to take a little time to recover calving and some are going to have to recondition before breeding. I guess I could have kept a feed trough in front of them and gained more calves running a bull all year but the bottom line is what matters and feed is high. I went to fall calving because I was summer calving some of my calves. They will not gain weight on average as well here and now I have the option to hold on to them longer on spring grass. I also don't have to carry a bull all year the years I plan on changing bulls or if I keep replacements. For those that sale pot loads of preconditioned calves, this would be unexceptable and not gain maximum dollars anyway.
MinnesotaMuscle
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Jeanne - Simme Valley":2lkv3z6u said:
Please excuse my ignorance, but this doesn't make sence to me regarding calving twice in a 12 month period. If the gestational period is 283 days, how can you have two calves (two gestational periods) in a calender year? I'm sure it's simple, just not getting my head around it...
Goodlife
Well-known member
hooknline":1j4114ds said:
Good call Hook. I was wondering the same thing.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
MinnesotaMuscle":3ud288qj said:
I've got many that calve in less than 11 months. Some calve every 10 months and 1 week or 2weeks.
Take say 7 years and multiply that by 12 months and get 84 months. Divide that by 10.5 months and you find that you gain an extra calf over folks who calve on 12 month intervals. Some folks feel that it is not healthy for the cows to do this every year. They should come look. It is the healthiest of the bunch who calve more frequently and they do it year after year. It works for me but I calve year round.
calfbuyer
Well-known member
backhoeboogie":16yiy848 said:
As Rush Says "Right on, Right on , Right on"
MinnesotaMuscle
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backhoeboogie":2g50tm2l said:
Ok, that makes more sence, and I can see the benifit in it. I have family that have raised cattle for two generations and swear by the one calf a year schedule. If the health of the heard stays intact with year around breeding, I'd like to know why would a person not? Maybe the hassle of randomly dropped calves VS in a relativly short period, or health risks to calves born in winter? What say you and why?
highgrit
Well-known member
I would think year round breeding in the northern climates is a bad deal. Seems like my cows wait for the worst weather to calve in here. My goal is to be able to bring a trailer load a month to the sale barn. I am planning to use my cows as my 401k, and something to pass on to the family. Cows will keep you young, uncle Ernie is 92 and still sees to 15-20 units.
spinandslide
Well-known member
Year round calving would be to stressful for me..I need afew months to "decompress" before doing it again..
My goal is to suppliment my "real" income, keep the ag-exemption on the place, and show my kiddo (and any other kids whose parents I know) where their food actually comes from..
Oh and have something to barter with my green thumbed neighbors when zombie apocolypse happens..since I couldnt grow a weed if I tried..
My goal is to suppliment my "real" income, keep the ag-exemption on the place, and show my kiddo (and any other kids whose parents I know) where their food actually comes from..
Oh and have something to barter with my green thumbed neighbors when zombie apocolypse happens..since I couldnt grow a weed if I tried..
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
There have been many arguments/discussions on calving during a designated "season" and year round. It all depends on your own operation and what your market is.
Management practice will dictate what works for you.
We have a specific time schedule thru -out the year. Breeding, calving, spring work-up, fall work-up, weaning, selling feeders, calfhood vaccinating heifers, etc.
To explain my cows having a calf within a 12 month period:
60 day calving season - late cows calve on days 45-60 - cycle back and breed for calving during days 1-45 next year.
Presently, I have a cow that was due on the LAST day of calving season (had been AI for a 2-1, slipped that preg & rebred to the bull), calved 13 days late, and I can almost guarantee you she will calve 45 days sooner next year.
When you maintain a calendar schedule, the cows will fluctuate calving dates (sooner or later) each year - within your prescribed dates.
Management practice will dictate what works for you.
We have a specific time schedule thru -out the year. Breeding, calving, spring work-up, fall work-up, weaning, selling feeders, calfhood vaccinating heifers, etc.
To explain my cows having a calf within a 12 month period:
60 day calving season - late cows calve on days 45-60 - cycle back and breed for calving during days 1-45 next year.
Presently, I have a cow that was due on the LAST day of calving season (had been AI for a 2-1, slipped that preg & rebred to the bull), calved 13 days late, and I can almost guarantee you she will calve 45 days sooner next year.
When you maintain a calendar schedule, the cows will fluctuate calving dates (sooner or later) each year - within your prescribed dates.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
MinnesotaMuscle":3u3c13xr said:
There is no real right and wrong in my opinion. If I were in the market and climate some of the others in this forum are, I may do as they do. For me to sell all calves in a lump sum would be akin to putting all my eggs in one basket and not capitalizing on markets and shortages. I sell half steers to a lot of folks. Brangus heifers are going for a premium in my market. You're better off selling them at auction right now because of the shortages. 2 years from now it will be different. I went to a very nice pedigree charolaise bull because brangus bulls are thru the roof. Cheapest brangus bull I found was 3700 and he was junk. Decent ones are over 7k. Buyers were chasing to 4500 for me and couldn't get one. Next year that will be different. But it has me questioning my steering every bull calf, for now.
When people get on here with ABSOLUTE declarations, it seems slanted to one small region or a single market mentality. If a calving season works for you, stick with it.
Ozhorse
Well-known member
In my brief time in farming it seems to me that what works is very personal to a particular farm, place and the person it is run for. The farm is supposed to be achieving the personal goals of the owner.
After that of course markets dictate. Here the premium price per head is gained on large lines of even sized and coloured calves (so long as the colour is black or maybe red). At the annual Special Calf sale the neighbour sent in over 700 calves, sold in lots up to 200+. Special annual calf sales make the big dollars as the buyers come from interstate (if the agent has done his work). Regular ordinary cattle sales in small lots will give much less per head, say $150 to $200 per calf. Add on to that the cost savings from less trucking and it is a lot of $.
Obviously an annual tight calving works best in this market if you are a big operator.
The climate here is very seasonal and winter is hard. The arrival of calves is closely timed to spring grass. So tight annual breeding works for that.
Still, a friend down the road leaves his bulls in all year because he likes to have something to sell now and then for his cash flow and his cows average more than one calf per year.
I agree with Backhoeboogie that there are no absolutes. Also that labour costs and time also are easier with annual calving.
After that of course markets dictate. Here the premium price per head is gained on large lines of even sized and coloured calves (so long as the colour is black or maybe red). At the annual Special Calf sale the neighbour sent in over 700 calves, sold in lots up to 200+. Special annual calf sales make the big dollars as the buyers come from interstate (if the agent has done his work). Regular ordinary cattle sales in small lots will give much less per head, say $150 to $200 per calf. Add on to that the cost savings from less trucking and it is a lot of $.
Obviously an annual tight calving works best in this market if you are a big operator.
The climate here is very seasonal and winter is hard. The arrival of calves is closely timed to spring grass. So tight annual breeding works for that.
Still, a friend down the road leaves his bulls in all year because he likes to have something to sell now and then for his cash flow and his cows average more than one calf per year.
I agree with Backhoeboogie that there are no absolutes. Also that labour costs and time also are easier with annual calving.
