semen interest in every bull sold

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ddd75

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got a new sale catalog the other day.

EVERY bull in the sale (by several consignors) They retain 25% of semen interest.

They can come and get the bull from your pasture anytime they want to get semen.


Wow.. I can see this in some extremely known / big name bulls. but for 5 consignors in just a regular sale doing this? I really hope this doesn't become a new standard.
 

mrvictordomino

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I guess the thinking is if one of these bulls turns out to be "great" they still own part of him....
I want all of the bulls I sell to be good and do what they are suppose to do. I expect them to. No need to think
that "one got away" when I am always developing the next crop. Confidence in consistency.
 

Black and Good

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I don't think its so much coming to get him, as if you start marketing his semen they want their cut. I'm dealing with that now. I've got a bull at KABSU getting collected and I owe them a third of what sells after expenses. A lot of them want a third or half around here. B&G
 

True Grit Farms

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It's the buyers fault, most folks have more money than sense. Around here I see bulls sell where the buyer owns a 100% of the animal. Everyone can pretty much breed the same quality of bulls through the use of AI and ET, why not just shop around for an animal that you can own 100% of?
 

littletom

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I get sale flyers several days a week this time of year. This is something i notice in about everyone of them. Today big one came i looked and it was not in there. I guess if you buy a bull from branchview Angus you get the whole thing.
 

pdfangus

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an admission that even through all the hype.....they don't know which ones are the good ones....

normally though collection is done at the convenience of the bull buyer and not the convenience of the seller.
 
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ddd75

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pdfangus":2f4hrg5n said:
an admission that even through all the hype.....they don't know which ones are the good ones....

normally though collection is done at the convenience of the bull buyer and not the convenience of the seller.


I agree.. they should know if they are selling!


It says in this sale they have the right to come collect the bull at their expense out of your pasture, at your convenience. Seems to me I bought the bull, I don't need someone taking him because he turned out really good..
 

Ebenezer

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Sort of a backdoor sales gimmick: "All of our bulls are so good that they might be famous AI sires in the future" is implied. Not worth an extra dime.

an admission that even through all the hype.....they don't know which ones are the good ones....
Dead on. When the EPDs describe the average calf of a sire in unproven sons and sale bulls do not have a stabilized genetic base, it's whichever one gets the fairy dust with their gene combinations at conception. A roll of the dice.

What I have learned to dislike more is the omission of either DOC scores in herds with problems or lack of defect info for herds which have a possibility to sell you a carrier. Buyer beware.
 

Lucky

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I don’t understand all the hype with EPDs. I know they are another tool to use but when bull shopping some of the ones with top EPDs look pretty sorry. All the young bulls are unproven too. I bought 3 registered bulls this year, the first two looked as good as any I’ve seen and I got the papers after the sale. They are in the top 15% of the breed so just so so but look outstanding. The 3rd bull I didn’t even ask to see the papers. I definitely believe in using the best bulls you can afford but some of this stuff seems to be getting a little crazy.
 

Son of Butch

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Black and Good":1lyjd28n said:
I don't think its so much coming to get him, as if you start marketing his semen they want their cut.
I'm dealing with that now.
I've got a bull at KABSU getting collected and I owe them a third of what sells after expenses.
B&G
Would giving them 1/3 of semen collected (and they pay 1/3 of KABSU bill) satisfy the sale terms?

ddd75":1lyjd28n said:
They retain 25% of semen interest.
It says in this sale they have the right to come collect the bull at their expense out of your pasture
at your convenience.
Does that mean they also pay to buyer 75% of what they sell after expenses?
IF so, win-win.
 

Ebenezer

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Lucky":3opzvm2s said:
I don’t understand all the hype with EPDs. I know they are another tool to use but when bull shopping some of the ones with top EPDs look pretty sorry. All the young bulls are unproven too. I bought 3 registered bulls this year, the first two looked as good as any I’ve seen and I got the papers after the sale. They are in the top 15% of the breed so just so so but look outstanding. The 3rd bull I didn’t even ask to see the papers. I definitely believe in using the best bulls you can afford but some of this stuff seems to be getting a little crazy.
EPDs probably represent about 5% of the total genes in an animal and in unproven animals merely reflect what the average offspring of the two parents might be like. Like MPG on a car sticker does not address the handling, road noise, longevity, safety and chance that the one you got might be a lemon.
 
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ddd75

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bird dog":yvwn50xg said:
So if the bull doesn't work out or gets old and you want to send him to the packers, do you have to get their permission?


no, you get full salvage value
 
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ddd75

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Son of Butch":2ji85030 said:
Black and Good":2ji85030 said:
I don't think its so much coming to get him, as if you start marketing his semen they want their cut.
I'm dealing with that now.
I've got a bull at KABSU getting collected and I owe them a third of what sells after expenses.
B&G
Would giving them 1/3 of semen collected (and they pay 1/3 of KABSU bill) satisfy the sale terms?

ddd75":2ji85030 said:
They retain 25% of semen interest.
It says in this sale they have the right to come collect the bull at their expense out of your pasture
at your convenience.
Does that mean they also pay to buyer 75% of what they sell after expenses?
IF so, win-win.

hah.. That would be nice and FAIR but I don't think thats how they want to play the game!
 

gizmom

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When We retain a semen interest it is stated up front. Basically it is an insurance policy in case a bull we sell gets picked up by an AI stud. Being a little fish in a big pond it isn’t likely to happen but if it does as the breeder I don’t think it’s unfair to retain a semen interest. Someone commented that with AI they can just go out and make a bull with the same genetics and that is a fair statement.

We currently have 7 bull calves out of Charlo and our donor SAV Blackcap May 0524 we plan to keep one to use but when keeping that yearling it is impossible to know if he is the best calf. After we invest in the donor and the flush how is it wrong of us as a breeder to retain 1/3 semen interest. We took the risk in investing in the donor and her genetics, we made the breeding decision to provide some excellent bull calves for our customers if the bull turns out to be good enough to be picked up by an AI stud the customer can still retain 1/3 interest and have possession of the bull and salvage value if the bull quits producing. I just don’t see it being all that big an issue, face it if an AI stud rep came up your drive and wanted to put your bull in their line up you would be tickled with 1/3 of the semen and AI certificate sales. I admit I would be tickled to death!

Gizmom
 

True Grit Farms

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gizmom":roguegg8 said:
When We retain a semen interest it is stated up front. Basically it is an insurance policy in case a bull we sell gets picked up by an AI stud. Being a little fish in a big pond it isn’t likely to happen but if it does as the breeder I don’t think it’s unfair to retain a semen interest. Someone commented that with AI they can just go out and make a bull with the same genetics and that is a fair statement.

We currently have 7 bull calves out of Charlo and our donor SAV Blackcap May 0524 we plan to keep one to use but when keeping that yearling it is impossible to know if he is the best calf. After we invest in the donor and the flush how is it wrong of us as a breeder to retain 1/3 semen interest. We took the risk in investing in the donor and her genetics, we made the breeding decision to provide some excellent bull calves for our customers if the bull turns out to be good enough to be picked up by an AI stud the customer can still retain 1/3 interest and have possession of the bull and salvage value if the bull quits producing. I just don’t see it being all that big an issue, face it if an AI stud rep came up your drive and wanted to put your bull in their line up you would be tickled with 1/3 of the semen and AI certificate sales. I admit I would be tickled to death!

Gizmom

I agree completely if you can find a buyer that's willing to accept your conditions. Your shared bull that went bad isn't something that would work for me, I know it's something that happens, but I want to look after my own money. Your animal husbandry is second to none, but stuff happens all the time.
But then again I don't let anyone borrow my equipment anymore either. If someone needs a hole dug I do it for them, seems like my stuff doesn't break nearly as much anymore.
 

wbvs58

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I have seen this over here however I do know that some of the noted big buyers will see the vendor before the sale and say they want 100% of semen rights if they buy a particular bull so the vendor has to decide whether they want that noted big buyer bidding at the sale. More often than not they will accept the 100% terms of the buyer to get the competition. If you have a special one to sell, it pays to have had him already collected.

Ken
 

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