Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

[wbvs58]

Calving ease, fertility, good weaning weights and doability for self replacing herds. I want my calves to look like Branded's at weaning on a fraction of the imputs.

Ken

 

[torogmc81]

I found out recently my heifer bull of choice, Chisum 255 was dropped from Select Sires because
of bad production and tomorrow we preg check and if any are open after being ai'ed to him,
I'm having a straw micro-scoped.

Hope you'll update with your results and any other information you might get.
How did you find out... from a SS representative?

From the owners; Shipwheel. Today I called a friend to discuss Tahoma Tahoe and he offered to sell me his Chisum straws, problem is, he hasn't had a single Chisum in his sales. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I got that figured out. Couldn't get my hands on any Flat Top, so I have some Tahoe coming in tomorrow.

Im surprised you couldn't get your hands on Flat Top, they tell you why? And why Flat Top (not knocking him, just purchased 10 straws a few months ago)

 

[CreekAngus]

Hope you'll update with your results and any other information you might get.
How did you find out... from a SS representative?

From the owners; Shipwheel. Today I called a friend to discuss Tahoma Tahoe and he offered to sell me his Chisum straws, problem is, he hasn't had a single Chisum in his sales. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I got that figured out. Couldn't get my hands on any Flat Top, so I have some Tahoe coming in tomorrow.

Im surprised you couldn't get your hands on Flat Top, they tell you why? And why Flat Top (not knocking him, just purchased 10 straws a few months ago)

Our local rep needs to order it in and it will take about a month to get it in. I live in dairy country, not a lot of beef AI work being done around here, he doesn't keep much Angus semen on hand. I should be AI'ing within the week, so I couldn't wait. Let me know how Flat Top works out for you, I really like his dam.

 

[Warrior2154]

From the owners; Shipwheel. Today I called a friend to discuss Tahoma Tahoe and he offered to sell me his Chisum straws, problem is, he hasn't had a single Chisum in his sales. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I got that figured out. Couldn't get my hands on any Flat Top, so I have some Tahoe coming in tomorrow.

Im surprised you couldn't get your hands on Flat Top, they tell you why? And why Flat Top (not knocking him, just purchased 10 straws a few months ago)

Our local rep needs to order it in and it will take about a month to get it in. I live in dairy country, not a lot of beef AI work being done around here, he doesn't keep much Angus semen on hand. I should be AI'ing within the week, so I couldn't wait. Let me know how Flat Top works out for you, I really like his dam.

Have used Tahoe a lot. Come easy and have some shape to them as they grow. Have heard his daughters in production are nice uddered. I'll take him over flat top for now since he is more proven. Good choice on bull.

 

[JMER1533]

I'm breeding and culling to produce genetics that excel on grass and mineral only including fescue, have high reproductive efficiency of bulls and females (directly tied to BCS on grass and mineral only), high disease and natural fly resistance, on the shorter and stouter side, good carcass and are enjoyable to be around. No fancy feed/annuals/anything to prop them up. In short I'm redeveloping the 'original' cow genetics. Cows that are good at being cows without man interfering. No I'm not dumping a bunch of cattle out on pasture and letting them go but I'm not propping them up with continual inputs either. Those that require more than minimal inputs are culled. Excess flies, poor BCS, prone to sickness, won't breed back, needs help calving, attitude issues..gone. Breed wise I'm doing registered red angus and registered south poll. To me the breed isn't the most important but it is nice that both of these are known for good carcass traits.

 

[fhug]

I'm breeding and culling to produce genetics that excel on grass and mineral only including fescue, have high reproductive efficiency of bulls and females (directly tied to BCS on grass and mineral only), high disease and natural fly resistance, on the shorter and stouter side, good carcass and are enjoyable to be around. No fancy feed/annuals/anything to prop them up. In short I'm redeveloping the 'original' cow genetics. Cows that are good at being cows without man interfering. No I'm not dumping a bunch of cattle out on pasture and letting them go but I'm not propping them up with continual inputs either. Those that require more than minimal inputs are culled. Excess flies, poor BCS, prone to sickness, won't breed back, needs help calving, attitude issues..gone. Breed wise I'm doing registered red angus and registered south poll. To me the breed isn't the most important but it is nice that both of these are known for good carcass traits.

It is amazing how many outfits over the years have been quite successful with that same plan you have stated. Commercial and seedstock breeders alike, and are very profitable. Some folks are trying to turn raising cattle into rocket science. It just doesn't have to be that difficult to raise good cattle.

 

[JMER1533]

Yep exactly. Some of them are trying to turn it into rocket science because that's what it takes to create these feedlot demanded machine-like cattle. I recently took a 7 week cow college put on by our local land grant university. I really enjoyed it and learned some things but some of the things they taught in regards to inputs/medicine/chemicals on the animals and pastures I strongly disagreed with.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Commercial guys should still be focused on dollars per cow profit than lbs. weaned. They don't always go hand in hand.

Why revenue per cow?

If that's the metric, keep your highest milking cow and sell all the rest.

A better measure is PROFIT per acre under management.

 

[WalnutCrest]

1 - Temperament.
2 - Ability to do their job (raise a healthy calf each year who will breed at 13-15 months of age) without fancy feed or tons of attention from the vet.
3 - Locomotion / structure
4 - Palatability traits (i.e., am I doing what I can do to ensure the consumer will enjoy their meal)

........

As an aside, I saw a video online if a bull being promoted. He was thick and deep and wide. Then he moved. He was so very unathletic. His pelvis was off - nothing flowed. Total train wreck!

I asked the guy who posted the video if the bull was his (it wasn't) and I asked him what he liked (EPDs) ... in hopes he'd reciprocate and ask my opinion. He didn't, so I just kept my yap shut.

Cattle with poor structure are more likely to have temperament problems (I know I have temperament problems when my body hurts) and physically hurting increases risk for illness (a body under stress cannot fight bugs as well as a stress free body).

A few thoughts on a Thursday morning ...

 

[CattleMan1920]

Commercial guys should still be focused on dollars per cow profit than lbs. weaned. They don't always go hand in hand.

Why revenue per cow?

If that's the metric, keep your highest milking cow and sell all the rest.

A better measure is PROFIT per acre under management.

Due to heavy seeding, rich soil, rotational grazing, rain every week, and highly efficient cows. We are running 12 cow calf pairs on 7 acres.

Don't believe me, ask TT and BR they were standing in the middle of them. Saw it with their own two eyes. On top of that I have mowed it 3 times so far this year.

Would that qualify as "profit per acre"?

I figure in many places you would need at least 50 acres or more to accomplish that and keep the cattle healthy.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Commercial guys should still be focused on dollars per cow profit than lbs. weaned. They don't always go hand in hand.

Why revenue per cow?

If that's the metric, keep your highest milking cow and sell all the rest.

A better measure is PROFIT per acre under management.

Due to heavy seeding, rich soil, rotational grazing, rain every week, and highly efficient cows. We are running 12 cow calf pairs on 7 acres.

Don't believe me, ask TT and BR they were standing in the middle of them. Saw it with their own two eyes. On top of that I have mowed it 3 times so far this year.

Would that qualify as "profit per acre"?

I figure in many places you would need at least 50 acres or more to accomplish that and keep the cattle healthy.

If you are doing rotational grazing, you don't consider what they're currently grazing as profit per acre. You must look at the number of acres they're grazing. Semantics again?

You can certainly push your profit per acre higher (here, double) with good rotational practices but that doesn't mean you're raising them solely on the acres they're presently on.

 

[gcreekrch]

Commercial guys should still be focused on dollars per cow profit than lbs. weaned. They don't always go hand in hand.

Why revenue per cow?

If that's the metric, keep your highest milking cow and sell all the rest.

A better measure is PROFIT per acre under management.

We don't run on a set amount of acres. By dollars per cow I meant those dollars left over after you have paid for her keep. High producers generally have a higher cost of upkeep so they might not be the most profitable. Our experience is that they normally weed themselves out of our program at a young age.

I like to tease my high production friends by saying I can't afford to raise those big calves.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Why revenue per cow?

If that's the metric, keep your highest milking cow and sell all the rest.

A better measure is PROFIT per acre under management.

Due to heavy seeding, rich soil, rotational grazing, rain every week, and highly efficient cows. We are running 12 cow calf pairs on 7 acres.

Don't believe me, ask TT and BR they were standing in the middle of them. Saw it with their own two eyes. On top of that I have mowed it 3 times so far this year.

Would that qualify as "profit per acre"?

I figure in many places you would need at least 50 acres or more to accomplish that and keep the cattle healthy.

If you are doing rotational grazing, you don't consider what they're currently grazing as profit per acre. You must look at the number of acres they're grazing. Semantics again?

You can certainly push your profit per acre higher (here, double) with good rotational practices but that doesn't mean you're raising them solely on the acres they're presently on.

Sorry about the confusion. They are on 3.5 acres in the morning, and 3.5 a night. Any way you slice it, 24 head on 3.5 acres is not common. Of course, our topsoil in that whole area can go 5 feet deep or more and it's had cattle manure building it up since the 60's. It's in a valley, and the grass grows aggressively in the area. The two lots are seeded 20-30 pounds an acre each spring with Orchard grass, Timothy, Rye grass, Fescue, white and red clover. The take it to the ground and it keeps coming back strong. I keep them there all summer long because there is so much shade around. Again, TT and BR stood in the middle of it, and can attest that what I say is correct, I'm not pulling anyone's leg. None of the cattle are complaining about their setup.

There are other farms near me that have 100 acres or more like that in a river bottom, that if seeded could raise an insane amount of cattle per acre. They raise tobacco or other crops instead.

 

[Ebenezer]

Profit per cow or profit per acre must also include the costs of things like AI work, labor, semen, mowing, tractors, hay equipment, hay, feed, seed, taxes, rent, supplies, ... so a fertile spot on the farm does not equal 100% profit from the advantages of the soils in that spot. Just saying.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Profit per cow or profit per acre must also include the costs of things like AI work, labor, semen, mowing, tractors, hay equipment, hay, feed, seed, taxes, rent, supplies, ... so a fertile spot on the farm does not equal 100% profit from the advantages of the soils in that spot. Just saying.

You are correct on that, but assuming I did nothing and instead chose to purchase more land instead, which would be more cost effective? Land around here is approaching $5000 an acre or more. I haven't seen too much land that looked amazing without effort, mowing, seeding, etc...

 

[sim.-ang.king]

So how many days of grazing do you get on just the 7 acres? What, and how much fertilizer are you using.

 

[CattleMan1920]

So how many days of grazing do you get on just the 7 acres? What, and how much fertilizer are you using.

They have been on there for 2 months, and no fertilizer except for the manure that I chain harrow around ahead of any heavy rains that might be on the way.

Send a PM to BR or TT and they will tell you what I'm saying is real. Like I said, they were standing right in the middle of the pastures. I don't have lush pasture like Ron, but because of the seeding and the rain, it has been possible to graze it very aggressively.

If anything this year has been a headache due to the constant mowing.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

So how many days of grazing do you get on just the 7 acres? What, and how much fertilizer are you using.

They have been on there for 2 months, and no fertilizer except for the manure that I chain harrow around ahead of any heavy rains that might be on the way.

Send a PM to BR or TT and they will tell you what I'm saying is real.

Do you think simm angus will do it? I'm betting he don't .... :cowboy:

 

[sim.-ang.king]

So how many days of grazing do you get on just the 7 acres? What, and how much fertilizer are you using.

They have been on there for 2 months, and no fertilizer except for the manure that I chain harrow around ahead of any heavy rains that might be on the way.

Send a PM to BR or TT and they will tell you what I'm saying is real.

Do you think simm angus will do it? I'm betting he don't .... :cowboy:

No need too, I got the information straight from the horses mouth.
That 7 acres puts my BMR, and clover patches to shame.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Commercial guys should still be focused on dollars per cow profit than lbs. weaned. They don't always go hand in hand.

Why revenue per cow?

If that's the metric, keep your highest milking cow and sell all the rest.

A better measure is PROFIT per acre under management.

Due to heavy seeding, rich soil, rotational grazing, rain every week, and highly efficient cows. We are running 12 cow calf pairs on 7 acres.

Don't believe me, ask TT and BR they were standing in the middle of them. Saw it with their own two eyes. On top of that I have mowed it 3 times so far this year.

Would that qualify as "profit per acre"?

I figure in many places you would need at least 50 acres or more to accomplish that and keep the cattle healthy.

Can you run 14 pairs and sell the tractor?