Rookie

[Hereford76]

Here are pictures from three different angles on a home raised yearling bull I used on 35 cows this season. Curious to know what all your discriminating eyes see.

 

[tlmcr]

I like him. If he ran with and hopefully bred 35 cows and stayed in that good of condition I think that is great. I would like to see a rear view of him and also like to see what he looks like as a 2 year old. His topline could be better, that may just be the way he is standing. What is he out of?

 

[Herefords.US]

Really nice bull! Any criticism I'd have would be much the same that I have for my own cattle and the Hereford cattle of many other breeders. I'd like to see a little less leg (frame) and more volume through the middle.

George

 

[I luv herfrds]

Nice looking bull there. I would like a more level topline.
In the last pic he does look thicker then in the first 2.
Good muscle on the hind end.
Have you preg'd the 35 head he was exposed to yet? Would like to know how many were bred.

 

[KNERSIE]

I think both Herefords.US and tlmcr has valid points, but he's still a pretty decent bull in my book, I bet I can feed him into a showstopper.

Hard to tell from the pics but it looks like there might just be a little knot where the muscles attach right in the middle of the back, but that is a minimal fault seen in the bigger picture.

 

[Hereford76]

If he ran with and hopefully bred 35 cows and stayed in that good of condition I think that is great.

those pictures were taken roughly 10 days after I turned him out and was pulled after 45 days of exposure. He was with 25 heifers and 10 cows. He missed one heifer that was the youngest in the whole group of heifers. I was very happy at how he grew through the breeding season. I develop the bulls on straight arvika pea hay and a mixture of native and rye grass pastures so they never do get overly fat over the winter and I feel they go back to grass and breeding season much better.

Any criticism I'd have would be much the same that I have for my own cattle and the Hereford cattle of many other breeders. I'd like to see a little less leg (frame) and more volume through the middle.

Its harder than I thought it would be to do that. It seems like most attempts here to take some frame or bw out of the cattle have been let downs - too many sacrifices come with it more often than not... either that or genetics I've tried to lower frame and/or bw come with no prepotency. The bull that I have used that so far has come the closest to lowering birthweight and frame without giving up traits like length, depth, and top has been the old 137Y bull that Keith Lapp bought from Ulrich's. I see Pharo has used the bull. I searched the US registered database for a bull with certain combined epds for bw, ww, yw, milk, and rea that had a pedigree of similair type cattle to my own and that is how I came across 137Y. The 137Y bull also has a cow on the bottom side of his pedigree that was the mother of the 8D herd bull that did us a lot of good (link to 8D) http://www.ngrbulls.com/8D24.jpg. I am anxious to see how the 137Y influence pans out here over the next several years.

I appreciate the comments.
ace

 

[KNERSIE]

Its harder than I thought it would be to do that. It seems like most attempts here to take some frame or bw out of the cattle have been let downs - too many sacrifices come with it more often than not... either that or genetics I've tried to lower frame and/or bw come with no prepotency

I've found its much harder to try and breed them bigger without giving up capacity, muscle and doing ability than the other way round. Luckily I wised up and have no desire to breed my herefords bigger.

8D is my kinda bull, what's his pedigree? Do you still have semen?

 

[Hereford76]

8D is my kinda bull, what's his pedigree? Do you still have semen?

I wish we would have put semen up on him. I guess that is the main reason I used 137Y. I bred 137Y to 5 cows and 22 heifers that go back to that old 8D bull on their bottom side. 8D would be a full sister to 137Y's great grandmother both by the good old bull 50Y. I had 5 bull calves born that look like potential users - we will see. Curious to see if the carcass is there even though 137Y has a proven rea. 137Y puts an udder on a cow second to none including all breeds. Man, if I keep going on like this I will probably just sell a bunch of bulls for courtneys!

link to 8D's pedigree
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...2A&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B5C26262726272F22&9=5C5D5A

 

[KNERSIE]

What is the frame size of your cows and what is the frame size of the 137Y get out of your cows? Isn't he about a frame 3?

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Looks like a very useful bull. I'd agree with the general direction of the comments so far. I don't know what frame score you are shooting for, but if you want about a 5, and don't mind using horned genetics, Richard Day would be the source I'd turn to for muscling, capacity, and reasonable BW. If you want frame 4, what about Jim Lents?

 

[Hereford76]

Can 137Y semen still be bought? Pharo's told me they were out! Any other sources?

I don't know for sure. I think Courtney's bought a semen interest from Lapp in the bull and I don't think anyone else that has it wants to let it go very bad. I have around 30 doses left but I plan on using it.

Looks like a very useful bull. I'd agree with the general direction of the comments so far. I don't know what frame score you are shooting for, but if you want about a 5, and don't mind using horned genetics, Richard Day would be the source I'd turn to for muscling, capacity, and reasonable BW. If you want frame 4, what about Jim Lents?

I've been tempted to go see those herds. I used to get lents newspaper and always found it an interesting read. I've never seen either of their cattle, only in pictures and I always had the impression those cattle were a little on the compact, tight muscled, light boned side and I always questioned whether or not they would transition to our climate - but I guess it might be worth the time to go look in person. My cow herd is a solid 6.5 frame. My dad used a lot of frame 7 bulls and they were exceptional cattle - but I want to drop the cow herd to a solid 6 frame. I have dabbled with smaller framed cattle and from my experience you loose a lot of bone, ruggedness, and longevity in our country. The smaller framed cattle I have had experience with come with very light bone and end up breaking down traveling the country to earn their keep.

 

[Hereford76]

and don't mind using horned genetics

that is too funny!

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

I've been tempted to go see those herds. I used to get lents newspaper and always found it an interesting read. I've never seen either of their cattle, only in pictures and I always had the impression those cattle were a little on the compact, tight muscled, light boned side and I always questioned whether or not they would transition to our climate - but I guess it might be worth the time to go look in person. My cow herd is a solid 6.5 frame. My dad used a lot of frame 7 bulls and they were exceptional cattle - but I want to drop the cow herd to a solid 6 frame. I have dabbled with smaller framed cattle and from my experience you loose a lot of bone, ruggedness, and longevity in our country. The smaller framed cattle I have had experience with come with very light bone and end up breaking down traveling the country to earn their keep.[/quote]

I guess I wasn't paying close attention to the horned/ polled there.

Richard Day has some frame 6 cattle, and his are definitely not light boned! Or tight muscled for that matter. Huge capacity and wonderful udders. Go see them for yourself is my advice. You can view the 943 bull in the July HW.

 

[Aaron]

I like him. Might be a bit weak in his top, but otherwise seems fine. Good length in him. When we started breeding for length, the prices on our calves/yearlings jumped 10.00 cwt across the board. That's why every bull we use has to have the length in them. I noticed on your site that he has 114L in his pedigree. He's a Landlord son? I really liked Landlord and his sire, Maker. Wouldn't mind buying a son off either of them someday. :cowboy:

 

[Hereford76]

He's a Landlord son?

He is by 114L but the better 114L, not Landlord. I traveled around canada with a few hereford guys and saw the landlord bull when he was a coming two - he didn't quite interest me... but I guess at the time I was using a pretty descent paternal relative to landlord out of a good old peacock cow (and I used him purely because of the peacock mother).
Here is a link to a picture of 114L
http://www.ngrbulls.com/aga_13g_general_114l_semen_available.htm

You can view the 943 bull in the July HW

I remember seeing that picture. I might be going to visit a fella down in OK that bought a couple loads of bred heifers and a few bulls last year to see how they did - would be neat to visit the day place. Any other herds down there that would be worth seeing?

Richard Day has some frame 6 cattle, and his are definitely not light boned! Or tight muscled for that matter. Huge capacity and wonderful udders.

greenwillowhereford - if you get a chance, look at the picture of the 114L bull (link above) and then compare it to the day 943 bull. Frame aside, the 114L bull is good example of the length, muscle, bone, etc I like in a hereford. The 943 bull to me looks a lot tighter muscled/hided and real tight in his hind leg set and neck. I guess that is why I would like to see for myself, but just looking at 943's picture I would say he doesn't travel very free? I like the looser hided, freer moving herefords. I hope you don't take this wrong - I'm just trying to explain what I am looking for and I commented about 137Y because he has been the closest thing I have tried, but the key word is "closest". I'm hoping one of the sons I have by him will do the job better. But until I either produce it our find those genetics its hard not to use bulls like 114L for example.

 

[Aaron]

He's a Landlord son?

He is by 114L but the better 114L, not Landlord. I traveled around canada with a few hereford guys and saw the landlord bull when he was a coming two - he didn't quite interest me... but I guess at the time I was using a pretty descent paternal relative to landlord out of a good old peacock cow (and I used him purely because of the peacock mother).
Here is a link to a picture of 114L
http://www.ngrbulls.com/aga_13g_general_114l_semen_available.htm

Ah, Ulrich's bull. Yeah, didn't know his number was 114L as well. Indeed, he is better than Landlord. :cowboy:

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

If you are going to be in OK anyway, you might take a look at the operation of Jim Lents. You'll get a history lesson from him if you do! So far as horned breeders go, there are a few others in Day's area, but I wouldn't put them on the same level. If you like Line Ones, I've heard that the Darnell operation has some good ones. Allen Moss has an interesting sounding operation, but I've never been there. There are a couple of polled breeders I'd recommend.

Also, Star Lake probably has some horned genetics among its line-up.

I definitely think you should take a look at Day's cattle in person. The 943 bull was pictured at 8, and his mother is about 16 and still producing strong. They aren't creep fed or pampered.